Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

[Glen]

New Granada had a tradition of more centralized government than many of the other Spanish successor states in the New World, and thus was not immune to the allure of Korsgaardism. When General Ricardo Rincon was elected President of New Granada (with strong backing of the military making his selection more a coup than an election), he brought the nation even further under control along Korsgaardist principles. Plotting with other Korsgaarist regimes both regionally and globally, Rincon launched on Christmas Day 1889 his invasion of the United Provinces of South America, claiming long disputed border regions (claims stretching back all the way to their Spanish colonial past). However, for the Korsgaardist alliance the goal was also to claim the rich saltpeter fields of the Atacama desert, which were so very useful in the manufacture of gunpowder, especially the smokeless variety.

 

[Cylon_Number_14]

Oh Snap this war has just touched yet another continent. Mexico vs the DSA brought the war to North America and now New Grenada vs UPSA brings the war to South America. This alt-WW1 puts OTL to absolute shame!

 

[Glen]

A war aim is just another way of saying a War Objective. Its not so much that they would succeed, that's not my objection, its that they would even try to do that.

Well, they are not being fully rational on that count. And quite frankly, given some of the war aims/objectives seen in OTL's World War I and World War II, I think they are in proportion. That's just me, of course....

 

[Lost the game]

Kosgaardianism actually seems more like Stalinism than Fascism to me, ironic, seeing as it's propagated by the upper classes. It seems to be pretty much total devotion to the state. I also agree that the two major parties in the United States are gonna see the wave of Kossgardian governments, even in republics, and try top stamp out the Kossgardians in the US. Maybe one effect of the Global War is an analogue to OTL's First Red Scare?

 

[Glen]

....aww! *Poe, but happy!

Glad you are happy.

I hope America stays Isolationist. I find it so cliche when America comes out of Isolation for no apparent reason, into War which are less justified than OTL's WWI.

In other words, like OTL?

Now that I think about it, what other Non-political figures in TTL are politicians, and vice versa?

A very good question....

 

[Falastur]

I fear that Granada jumping on the bandwagon here is finally answering the question whether Korsgaardianism is a fascist-style philosophical alliance of right-wing thought or simply a shift to right-wing political thought.

 

[Nugax]

Hmmm super secret technology beats superior numbers (unlike the normal outcome of such things), and Mexico mounts a naval threat despite being entirely reliant on external British-controlled resources for fuel - :/

 

[Glen]

Hmmm super secret technology beats superior numbers (unlike the normal outcome of such things), and Mexico mounts a naval threat despite being entirely reliant on external British-controlled resources for fuel - :/

Well, not super secret, but technological superiority acts as a force multiplier, giving a fighting chance when otherwise there would be none.

Also, you are confusing this time period with the one about to dawn. At this time, the world is still being fueled by coal - and Mexico has coal, at least enough for the war effort.

 

[Nugax]

Well, not super secret, but technological superiority acts as a force multiplier, giving a fighting chance when otherwise there would be none.

Also, you are confusing this time period with the one about to dawn. At this time, the world is still being fueled by coal - and Mexico has coal, at least enough for the war effort.

Heheh - I wouldn't use a map of accessible modern deposits, that doesn't even differentiate between coal types or density of resource, to indicate 19th cen availability.

Mexican Coal is shitty ashy stuff you can barely use in a power plant, and certainly not an early steam ship. It was also only found in 1884 OTL, isn't in an easy to get to part of the country (the Oaxaca deposit is godawful), took a while to get going, and never amounted to more than 1/600th of US production until well into the 20th century.

 

[Glen]

Heheh - I wouldn't use a map of accessible modern deposits, that doesn't even differentiate between coal types or density of resource, to indicate 19th cen availability.

Mexican Coal is shitty ashy stuff you can barely use in a power plant, and certainly not an early steam ship. It was also only found in 1884 OTL, isn't in an easy to get to part of the country (the Oaxaca deposit is godawful), took a while to get going, and never amounted to more than 1/600th of US production until well into the 20th century.

Do you have better online reference?

 

[Lycaon pictus]

I Googled ""Mexican coal" quality" and found this.

Apparently there's at least one bed of usable coal (50,000,000 tons, according to the estimate). IOTL it was discovered in 1899 by an American geologist, but theoretically a Korsgaardist Mexico might have invested a little more into exploring for resources and discovered it a few years earlier.

 

[Glen]

I Googled ""Mexican coal" quality" and found this.

Apparently there's at least one bed of usable coal (50,000,000 tons, according to the estimate). IOTL it was discovered in 1899 by an American geologist, but theoretically a Korsgaardist Mexico might have invested a little more into exploring for resources and discovered it a few years earlier.

Earlier discovery is very plausible, even before the Korsgaardian takeover, as this Mexico is more developed and more explored than the same Mexico IOTL.

 

[Glen]

And an old Poe. When he is born in the same year as OTL he would be 80 years old by the time he is elected. That would make him the oldest elected US president ever.

Still, Poe as a more happy man is something positive. Guess someone else must become the father of short stories then.

EDIT: You just specified it as him being part of the Baltimore Poes. So that means that guy who looks like Edgar Allan Poe is actually a younger relative of his (common ancestor)?

This is a relative of OTL Poe not the poet. Still cool though!

 

[Glen]

Guys

On the Balkan partition line being aimed at by the eastern powers I suspect its mainly religious in basis. Other than the Romanians, which Russia needs to have land access to the other regions pretty much the Catholic lands go to Austria and the Orthodox to Russia.

Yep.

Given Austria's other large gains in S Germany and Italy that would seem reasonable.

Yep.

Would be interesting to know what the reactions of the Poles would be to the planned expansion of Prupol [love that abbreviation] which would leave them a pretty small minority in an overwhelmingly German state.

Less than thrilled, I imagine, but at this point in time there is some pretty tight censorship in Prupol so they don't know that is a war aim of the Kaiser.

Do agree they are rather unrealistic. Can't see, if the western powers are so heavily defeated as this would suggest, that France escapes without some losses.

Possible, of course, but that would be such a large extension for the Eastern Powers and of land that they really don't have a particular claim upon.

Although as said it would be difficult to get any territory from Britain as I can't see its naval dominance being threatened.

Yeo.

Is Scandinavia in the western alliance? Presumably it soon will be as the easterners plan to carve chunks out of it. Also do the easterners have any overseas colonies as they aren't likely to last long.

Scandinavia is loosely in the alliance, and yes, the Eastern plan to carve it up stiffens their resolve and has them join the alliance fully and declare war. The Eastern powers do have overseas colonies, and it is likely that they won't hold, but could be regained at the peace table if the Easterners win big (or so they think).

Not sure how things are compared to OTL but if economic/industrial development is pretty much as with us fighting with be heavy, especially in Germany, but the west should will decisively as they simply have too much industrial strength. [Probably also financial and technological as well].

Steve

Eastern Powers are a bit more developed than one might also think, but then again, so is the West.

 

[Glen]

Glen

Whatever that means as it can be a fairly flexible term.

Steve

Yes, liberalism does - mostly ITTL it has a meaning of Classical Liberalism.

 

[Glen]

Well the Eastern powers betting on bolt actions has certainly given them a nice advantage, that might even up the odds somewhat.

It certainly does early on - but time will tell what comes of it.

And the other effect is that in the early war the 'good guys' are all using lever actions and look like cowboys from OTL.

 

[Glen]

So while The Western Powers have a traditional advantage of having great navies

Yes, though the Eastern Powers have built up a bit more than OTL.

and OTL luck,

Maybe, maybe....

the Eastern Powers have a tech advantage.

Some tech advantage.

I see the war going like this: The Eastern Powers overwhelm the Western Powers with Technology, but have an edge in espionage. Later, as the Westies adopt newer technology, The Easters are sent on the run in a WWII like scenario.

An interesting thought.

 

[Glen]

The Global War saw many fascinating innovations, but perhaps one of the most impressive was the development of airpower starting in 1890. While for many decades the French had led in the development of first ballooning, and then the use of powered balloons. However, it was in British hands that the airship reached its pinacle. Using a rigid airframe and mountiing the finest steam engines available, the first class of combat balloon, the Orcas, set the standard for the war. Also known as Air Whales, the Orcas were used for long range reconnaisance and bombing on occasion (more of a propoganda weapon than anything else).

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

Airships! Will there be a Roosevelt riding one?

 

[Glen]

Airships! Will there be a Roosevelt riding one?

God there should be!