Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Plus the US is not Facist/Kosgardist there is only a kosgardist Party amongst the established parties. It seems to be nothing more than a mix of the People's Party of OTL, with some nativist and expansionists elements to it.

It is likely that this right-wing populist party will disapear once the economic troubles are gone.

Possible, but analysing Glen's writings as an author of fiction (Checkhov's Gun and all that) rather than as a chronicler of history suggests that it's only a matter of time before the USA gets its first Korsgaardian President.

I have to agree with Aracnid though - the Korsgaardist movement is overtly nationalist and thus doesn't really have an internationalist element that would necessitate all the Korsgaardist states allying together. In fact, especially in the case of Russia and Prussia-Poland, their Korsgaardist ideals may actually make them bitter rivals as Russia in particular finds the newly strengthened Prussia unwilling to remain a Russian stooge to be used and then abused. It's only if external conditions unify them that we should get worried.

I'm surprised that there has been little murmuring of a rival left-wing ideology to match Korsgaardism in truth, though for personal reasons I am far from disappointed. Perhaps this world will instead develop into a fascist v centrist (constitutional monarchy and whatnot) scenario. That would certainly make the US politics more interesting...
 

Glen

Moderator
There had been speculative history written as far back as antiquity, but sporadically and was not seen as a genre proper unitl the 19th century. The French were the earliest in the 19th century to start seriously writing speculative fiction, mostly about worlds where Napoleon had not died of his wounds, some seeing him go on to further victories and some seeing him being tried by the victorious powers and executed.

In the English-speaking world, however, the real birth of speculative fiction did not take place until after the Slaver Uprising. The earliest work of literary note was written by a Southron expatriot Carl Heartwell. Heartwell had been an ardent Confederationist, and migrated to the United States after the collapse of the Confederation. His work cleverly postulated the failure of our American Revolution, leading to the death of almost all the familiar American founding fathers, and the subsequent retained loyalty of the 'Yankees' of Northern America whereas an expanded British Southern America under the leadership of a young and dashing Andrew Jackson, among others, breaks away from the British Empire and forms their own independent nation. The author saw his slavocrat republic as a realization of Plato's vision of a republic, and thus the name of the work, Plato's America. While seen by some as a simple exercise in wishful thinking, most acknowledge it as the first pioneering work in speculative fiction.

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The other two major works of 19th century speculative history were from a different political perspective and took a different tack.

American David Weber wrote the quirky epic, The Course of Human Events. It foresees a more amicable separation between British North America and the United Kingdom, if not the British Empire per se, in his work where a North American kingdom is founded peacefully under a scion of the British throne. The New World kingdom thus created takes its name from the Pacific Province of the Dominion of Southern America, Albion.

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Whereas Weber's work has its quirks (as do most of the genre), the last great speculative history work of the 19th century, A Loyal North, was published right after the Panic of 1881. Penned by Cantab Dr. Thomas Anderson, this British work of speculative history may have been partly inspired by the opening premise of The Course of Human Events, though the author never verified this. However, Anderson's work takes quirky to whole new levels and in fact interjects this work of speculative history with elements of scientific fiction such as projecting the events of the tale far into the 20th century, and having interludes with a history jumping team of scientists and soldiers exploring this timeline, labeled timeline 'L', clearly referring to the Loyal North title. The loyalty of this North is somewhat questionable as again there is a not entirely amicable break between British America and the United Kingdom. One interesting point here is the incorporation of the Washington family into the cadet branch of the British Royal Family which becomes the Royal family of this New World Kingdom. While the story starts off initially with a rather innocuous premise, there is a continued undertone of foreboding and darkness to the tale. Some critics have seen the work as an indictment of Liberalism and thus a subversive pro-Korsgaardian work, though other critics have suggested that it is actually a cautionary tale of the excesses of all political system. Most agree, however, that it is best seen as a rip-roaring, rich, complex tapestry of a tale. Of particular note of interest is the extrapolation of the old British Colonial borders to rather extreme extents.

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Glen, can you confirm that after the Liberal Wars Moscow became, once again, Russia's political capital city?
Post-Liberal Wars Petersburg is too close to the new Swedo-Russian border.
 

Glen

Moderator
Just because three "fascist"
Kough, Korsgaardian, Kough.
nations got together in WW2 doesn't mean it will happen in this tl.

Fair point.

After all it's unlikely that an ultra-nationalist France would cosy up with an ultra-nationalist Germany.

A point - just having a similar political philosophy won't necessarily have nations allied. They'd have to have some other compelling national interests I would think.

Now so far all the Korsgaardian powers seem to be relatively feud free (with the semi-exception of Russia and Prussia-Poland) but that doesn't mean that alliance systems driven by national self interest won't put them on opposite sides. Also the fact that the US has a Korsgaardian Party doesn't mean that its going to get elected.

All fair points....
 
A remark on the "Edward Rex" picture - I don't know whether this is yours or from the linked TL, but the text ought to be "In Memoriam".
 

Glen

Moderator
Plus the US is not Facist/Kosgardist there is only a kosgardist Party amongst the established parties.

True as of 1888.

It seems to be nothing more than a mix of the People's Party of OTL, with some nativist and expansionists elements to it.

No, it's a bit different from that. Korsgaardians are not isolationist as a rule. Nativism is likely, however, as is expansionist strains. But there is much more to it than that.

It is likely that this right-wing populist party will disapear once the economic troubles are gone.

Right-wing depends how you define it. Right-wing, left-wing really don't apply per se. It's a form of fascism in some ways, though definitely not Nazi.
 
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Glen

Moderator
Possible, but analysing Glen's writings as an author of fiction (Checkhov's Gun and all that) rather than as a chronicler of history suggests that it's only a matter of time before the USA gets its first Korsgaardian President.

Interesting thought - so, are you saying I am heavy on the foreshadowing?;)

I have to agree with Aracnid though - the Korsgaardist movement is overtly nationalist and thus doesn't really have an internationalist element that would necessitate all the Korsgaardist states allying together.

True enough.

In fact, especially in the case of Russia and Prussia-Poland, their Korsgaardist ideals may actually make them bitter rivals as Russia in particular finds the newly strengthened Prussia unwilling to remain a Russian stooge to be used and then abused. It's only if external conditions unify them that we should get worried.

That is certainly one way such a relationship could develop - however, I would point out that the Kaiser of Prussia-Poland and Tsar of Russia are on fairly good terms and close relatives.

On the other hand, I suppose the same could have been said of OTL German and British Royal Families.

I'm surprised that there has been little murmuring of a rival left-wing ideology to match Korsgaardism in truth,

Well, I'm sure there are some socialists out there, but Communism per se hasn't really developed here.

though for personal reasons I am far from disappointed. Perhaps this world will instead develop into a fascist v centrist (constitutional monarchy and whatnot) scenario. That would certainly make the US politics more interesting...

It would indeed - right now that is sort of how it is moving, but it's still the 19th century, so who can say what the future may hold.
 
Glen

Catching up after a week off. The sudden rise of Korsgaardism in Mexico is worrying, especially coupled with the hints that the system with become prominent in the US, means that the DSA will find itself in a Korsgaardian sandwich.:( This could be very nasty even if the two powers don't link up.

Steve
 
Interesting thought - so, are you saying I am heavy on the foreshadowing?;)

Not exactly. I'm saying that it's the natural reserve of an author to introduce elements into a story which are designed to enhance a story, and the leave out ones which serve no purpose. To quote Shchukin, writing about Chekhov's own writings (and because I think his wording drives the point home better than Chekhov's own):

"If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."

Or in this case, if you say that there is a Korsgaardian Party in the USA, it stands to reason that it will become a dominant force in US politics, even if only for a short time, otherwise people will ask why it was mentioned in the first place. Now it could be a literary device to, say, die a feeble death from lack of support but unwittingly inspire some other event elsewhere, but the more probable is that I'd say the USA will at some point either have a Korsgaardist President, or find its politics being affected one way or the other by Korsgaardist influence on political philosophies.

That is certainly one way such a relationship could develop - however, I would point out that the Kaiser of Prussia-Poland and Tsar of Russia are on fairly good terms and close relatives.

On the other hand, I suppose the same could have been said of OTL German and British Royal Families.

Quite. I would replace the British in that example with the Russians, even. Kaiser Wilhelm and Tsar Nicholas were so close that Wilhelm addressed his Russian counterpart in letters as "Cousin Nicky", and yet the two regnant monarchs - let's not pretend the UK joining WW1 was King George's idea - were at war with each other before Britain joined in, and though I can't explain it, I tend to view Germany's declaration of war on Russia as somewhat more "necessary" at the time than Britain's on Germany. I'd say that the pair of them were distraught at having to fight each other.

Well, I'm sure there are some socialists out there, but Communism per se hasn't really developed here.

It would be interesting to see a world where no strong, viable and in any way mainstream leftist movement appears. It would, of course, also be interesting to see the left face off against the right. I guess whatever direction this story takes, I'm sure it will be interesting :)
 

Glen

Moderator
The conclave of 1880 saw the election of the most liberal candidate to the papacy. Niccolò Cipollo, a priest who could claim descent from Africanus Scipio, was selected as pope and took the name Pius X. The elevation of the new pope was rife with controversy, however, and threatened a new schism in the Catholic Church. The Empire of Austria-Hungary attempted to use its traditional veto during the conclave, this despite the rulings during Pius IX's reign that secular powers would not be able to veto a candidate for pope. Austria-Hungary, however, used this as a pretext to claim that the papacy remained unfilled, and the Emperor directed the Austrian clergy that they would be under his protection and guidance until a proper pope could be chosen. Those clergy who would not pay obedience to the Austro-Hungarian crown were expelled from the nation. The Kaiser of Prussia-Poland followed suit immediately for his nation's Catholic clergy. Others would follow suit in the years to come, especially those who espoused Korsgaardian principles and saw this as a chance to bring the church under the control of the state.

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Glen

Moderator
Very good post, nice to see AH.com's finest works have received the attention they deserve.

Thanks - I thought it was a fun reference, and I appreciate the permission of the various authors to use them and their works in the timeline.
 
Perhaps somebody writes a book that has a Dominion of Northern America, due to less incentive to rebel in canada, more in the south, and as a result Upper and Lower Canada and Nova Scotia stay loyal, while North and South Carolina and Georgia rebel :cool:
 
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