Duck and Cover! An American Spinoff of Protect and Survive.

You're probably right, the loss of modern heating and medicine will be worse than the weather alone. Perhaps I should rephrase my question:

How bad would the effects of such a storm, combined with the lack of modern conveniences be?
I'm afraid that older people and small children in non-heated environments, along with anyone suffering from severe health problems will be in high risk of dying.
 
@ Archangel & stalkere

Thanks for the info. I'm doing some research on the coming winter. Here is the aforementioned mini-update.

Somewhere in Northern California, March 27th, 1984.


*The Chief of Staff rolled over and groaned. The pain was unbearable. Feeling each of her limbs slowly she came to the conclusion that she had broken at least one arm in the crash, she found it hard to think straight, her headache was killing her. There were definite bruises all over and Good God the headache was unbearable. The Chief of Staff gently sat up and leaned heavily against the wall. She had no idea if her back was broken or not, but it was worth the risk to sit up.

The small basement was dirty and grimy. Through the small window light filtered through the dusty air, illuminating the basement enough for one to barely see. She slowly turned to look about the rest of the room.

MAILMAN lay in a corner, he seemed in fair condition. From where she was sitting it looked like the man was breathing. That at least was good. The rest of the staff was sprawled in different variations of agony and pain. No one was talking. Two of the Secret Service agents were missing. A small spackle bucket sat in the corner next to a roll of toilet paper.

Two figures stood by the steps out of the Basement. Both were armed with WW II era weapons and clad in what could barely be described as uniforms. They were garbed in clothes cobbled together from uniforms from different eras and different branches.

The taller of the two looked like your normal soldier. Eyes ahead, chin up, in focus. No one would leave the room, that was for certain.

It was the smaller of the two who was interesting. The soldier, no she told herself, kid, couldn’t be older than 12 years old. His face and hands were dirty, the rifle he laboriously hefted in his hands was obviously far too large for anyone his size. He was wearing a bad imitation of the face his older comrade was putting on, and the fidgeting of his bare feet on the basement gave away his bored or nervous ticks.

Right then the door out of the basement opened bathing the room with light and blinding the Chief of Staff. Presently a figure silhouetted against the light walked down the stairs and announced himself.

"My name is the Colonel and that is all you anti-American bastards need to know.”

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Comments?
 
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Truth be told at this point pretty much anyone would be using soldiers of any age as long as they can at least try to fight,including the US Army or what's left of it.It should not be forgotten that as late as the Korean War the US had soldiers as young as 14 albeit signed up by lying about their age,still people at the time knew that boys this young slipped in the army.After a war like this its unlikely anyone would care about who fights anymore.
 
"My name is the Colonel and that is all you anti-American bastards need to know.”

Hmm, sounds anti-Government in some way.


"Truth be told at this point pretty much anyone would be using soldiers of any age as long as they can at least try to fight,including the US Army or what's left of it.It should not be forgotten that as late as the Korean War the US had soldiers as young as 14 albeit signed up by lying about their age,still people at the time knew that boys this young slipped in the army.After a war like this its unlikely anyone would care about who fights anymore.

That's quite true. Although, in a more regulated militia there would be some safeguards for the children involved. That's a debate that is coming to a head soon.
 
Truth be told at this point pretty much anyone would be using soldiers of any age as long as they can at least try to fight,including the US Army or what's left of it.It should not be forgotten that as late as the Korean War the US had soldiers as young as 14 albeit signed up by lying about their age,still people at the time knew that boys this young slipped in the army.After a war like this its unlikely anyone would care about who fights anymore.

The majority of "official" National Guard and Army units are putting an enlistment cap of roughly "16 official years of age" so anywhere between 14-16 is acceptable though some 13 year olds who are too big for their own good may get in.

That's quite true. Although, in a more regulated militia there would be some safeguards for the children involved. That's a debate that is coming to a head soon.

Most local militias will be more lenient children as young as 10 will be used as messengers however few if any will be purposely put in combat situation as standard infantry. Kids are still kids no matter how horrid the situation they find themselves in.

The manpower problem is also being solved by integrating women more and more in the military. The Cadet's group in Texas has a female medic for example.
 
On a somewhat funny note,Will Smith who would be around 15 at this time could slip in the army as a child soldier since he was already over 6 feet at the age of 13.This of course assuming he is still alive.
 
On a somewhat funny note,Will Smith who would be around 15 at this time could slip in the army as a child soldier since he was already over 6 feet at the age of 13.This of course assuming he is still alive.


His mom was on the Philidelphia school board so maybe they had time to evacuate...
 
Any idea of what is left of Canada?Being somewhat closer to the Soviet Union it would be easier to hit so I'd expect fewer duds landed on the canadian.Also soviet bombers would first reach Canada then assuming they destroyed surviving air defences would enter the US.The canadians always get left out when it comes to major disasters,even in the movies they rarely get mentioned like the Day after tomorrow probably 30 million canadians died in that movie and half the time we spend it with whether the main character rescues his son.:D
 
You're probably right, the loss of modern heating and medicine will be worse than the weather alone.

The loss of modern heating can in some places be ameliorated by using ancient heating. In the winter of OTL 1988/89 I visited distant (and very old) relatives still living in the CSSR. I was shocked when I was led to the distant part of the farmhouse, very far away from the zwo-feet-high wood-heated stove acting as the only source of heating in the house.

The amount of pillows and douvets applied to these beds was almost bizarre, but it kept one warm. I am sure if every Western household holds such an amount of cushions etc, but the mortality rate might make to some kind of re-distribution of valuable items like that easier.

On another note. The house I lived at the point of time when the exchange would have happened had electric heating (an expensive situation decades later when I had to pay the bills), but still a wood-powered stove in the basement which was technically a lot more basic, of course. Now this was not an ancient house at this point of time, having been built by the early 1960s. I am sure though, that the people who bought and renovated the place have gotten rid of this appliance now...

I remember that my other grandparents back then also still heated using coal, coal which was actually delivered and stored (those houses were a lot older and a thoroug renovation of the whole borough ended these anciet rites of getting your hands dirty by the black gold).

However, I suspect that by the 1980s, getting a lot of houses heated was a lot easier to maintain than it would be in a similar 21st century scenario.

In environments where such solutions might not apply, how about communal bedding in heatable places? It might be a lot more effective to heat up a large place for 200 people than heat 50 places for 4 people each. The downsides would of course be an easier spread of diseases and petty-crime. (However, birth rates might profit)
 
Update!

[FONT=&quot]Author’s Note: Though Jack’s OPERATION PROSPERO stories were brilliant and completely fit the mood of the rest of P&S as an American I found some things in his work a little off key for real America. And thusly I have taken some liberties to try and “fix” them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]First was the “cowboy” in New York, believing that stereotype was more believable in the south, I moved the Farmer & the Secretary to Georgia. Secondly was the reference of flying what I assumed to be a helicopter from New York to Colorado a distance of almost 1500 miles or 2500 km. A hell of a distance to fly by helicopter in any situation, especially in what was a post strike America. Thus I am modifying the Prospero Team’s journey quite a bit. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Hopefully this version is a bit more realistic in revelation of what I have created of post strike America. Enjoy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Part V: There Will Come Soft Rains[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]OPERATION PROSPERO: REDUX [1]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Sir we're too far west. We're going to miss Griffis AFB by a couple of hundred miles." The Navigator said to the Pilot.

"We don't have enough fuel for correction" the Pilot said angrily tapping the fuel gauge. The needle was sitting clearly on the "E." "We're running on fucking fumes as it is. Where's the hell's the backup?"

"Niagara AFB, it has a 10,000 foot runway, used for emergency landings by B-52s. The Soviets probably didn't hit it." The Navigator responded. "I'll get a new course up quick."

"I hope you're right."
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Victor bomber lurched its way down the runway. As soon as the lumbering beast hit the ground its landing gear shattered, the struts collapsing under the weight. They had come in too fast. The passengers and crew are thrown about. The Navigator’s head hit the bulkhead. All went black.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]*The Navigator stands in the door and looks out across the empty runway. Slightly higher than those on the ground, he sees something moving in the distance.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]“Guys I think I see a truck.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]It wasn’t a truck, but what the Americans would call a SUV. It pulls to a stop inches from the broken bird. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Out steps an American in MOPP gear. They stand quietly staring at each other for a few minutes in total disbelief.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The American behind his mask finally smiles, salutes, and says “Staff Sergeant Steven E. Hunter United States Air Force.” [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The Pilot and Commando return the salutation.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The American motions them to the truck. “It’s safe here, however the radiation isn't bad at all." Flipping on a Geiger counter for a few seconds and then quickly off again. "Yeah you're safe here. However, the weather is atrocious. You’ll get frostbite if you take those masks off.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]He pauses for a moment. “You are all probably hungry. I’ve got some food.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The American starts the engine. The Prospero team barely fits in the vehicle. The Navigator sits in the passenger’s seat, and the Scientist sits between the Pilot and the Commando, no point in having them fight. Everyone else is crammed in a seat one way or another.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The slow to a stop next to a small shack. Opening the door the American reveals a small room with an oversized Franklin stove in a corner. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The room to be far too hot and stuffy in the NBC suits. After closing and latching the door behind him, the American begins to strip off his MOPP suit and motions the Prospero Team to do the same. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]As the Prospero team fumbles out of their suits, the Sergeant starts a pan of sausages on the stove. The British are shocked. Sausage! None of them had seen anything remotely like a sausage for nearly a month.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]After fumbling in the next door room for a couple of minutes, he appears again with a variety of plates and proceeds to pass a sausage to each man. The Navigator tucked in. It was good. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The Pilot walked into the room the American just appeared out of, and comes stumbling out later with a bottle of vodka. Over the course of the next hour he would drink himself into a depressed stupor.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The Commando smirks in the corner. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The American pulls a chair in the center of the room and sits down. The Doctor, the Scientist, and the Navigator pull their chairs in a semi-circle around the American. The Commando doesn’t move, preferring to stay in the corner where he can watch the door and the American.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The Scientist and the American have a long talk about the state of America. From what he gleaned from the conversation, the Navigator finds that it is bad, but not as bad as in England. The American survivors are enjoying the fat of their country being the world’s bread basket before the war. Most are better fed than their British brethren.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Finally it becomes evident that the American while somewhat knowledgeable (apparently due to a national radio program) is not an expert on the status of the whole country. After the Scientist finished scribbling his last note in his notebook, the American pulls out a small table and places on it a flight map.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Tracing his hand along some lines he begins to talk. “As you can tell, I’m no expert on the whole status of the country, here in New York we took some of the most hits and thus are among the worst off. You are lucky that you didn’t land in Montana…”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]A sad look passes over the American’s face it’s obvious that Montana, where ever it is, is completely demolished. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The American continues “I’ll see if I can scrounge you a Learjet from the Bell complex down the street. They always seemed to have one there for some reason or another. From here you can probably fill the tanks of the Lear from your Victor and fly down here (he points somewhere far to the south) to Georgia. That’s about 800 miles, uh, roughly 1,200 kilometers. Plenty within range of that plane should give you an extra 45 minutes or so of flight time.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The Navigator takes a look at the map. He and the American had gone out earlier to inspect their Victor Bomber. The structural damage is drastic and it’s obvious that the plane will not be able to take off without repairs. Any facilities and parts that they need are in the UK and the team for now is stranded in America. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Smiling he spoke on “Funnily enough Rome, Georgia is where the closest Acting National Government is right now. They’ll have more information on the whole country and will be better able to help you guys out.” [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]He looks the Navigator dead in the eye. Producing an official looking piece of paper the American deadpans “I’m under direct orders to send you to Georgia. Now you can stay here, with my family, but I can promise you that you’ll be stranded here and never make it home. Your best bet to get back to your homes and what’s left of your families is to follow what we tell you. It sounds silly listening to me, a Sergeant, however if you do what we say and we do promise to get you home.”[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The team quickly debates for a bit while the American walks outside to get some more wood for the dying fire. With a unanimous vote the Commando, the Doctor, and the Navigator agree to follow the American’s plan. If he can get them home, he can get them home. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]When Sergeant Hunter walks back in with a cord of fire wood, the Navigator announces their decision. After salvaging some sleeping bags from the Victor the Prospero team sleeps on the floors next to the Franklin stove. The Pilot is woken and stuffed in a sleeping bag, where he immediately passes out once again. The Navigator quickly falls to sleep, he’ll need it later.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comments?

Cannon issues?
[/FONT]
 
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Any idea of what is left of Canada?Being somewhat closer to the Soviet Union it would be easier to hit so I'd expect fewer duds landed on the canadian.Also soviet bombers would first reach Canada then assuming they destroyed surviving air defences would enter the US.The canadians always get left out when it comes to major disasters,even in the movies they rarely get mentioned like the Day after tomorrow probably 30 million canadians died in that movie and half the time we spend it with whether the main character rescues his son.:D

I can only roughly guess at Canada. Not being Canadian myself, and not having researched it well enough to do it justice. Though I do expect it to be not well off. Canadian Cold + Nuclear Winter + Densely Located population = Hyper Disaster. Perhaps stalkere could mention Canadian refugees fleeing south for the winter in his TL.

The loss of modern heating can in some places be ameliorated by using ancient heating. In the winter of OTL 1988/89 I visited distant (and very old) relatives still living in the CSSR. I was shocked when I was led to the distant part of the farmhouse, very far away from the two-feet-high wood-heated stove acting as the only source of heating in the house.

The amount of pillows and douvets applied to these beds was almost bizarre, but it kept one warm. I am sure if every Western household holds such an amount of cushions etc, but the mortality rate might make to some kind of re-distribution of valuable items like that easier.

Those are all good observations I hadn't thought about. Wood heating is fairly common in some areas of America and most houses have some form of open fireplace. However, wood Franklin-type stoves are rather rare in most places. Most of American houses were built with the newest appliances since WWII so while wood stoves will be uncommon, fuel and electric powered heating will found in most every house. Almost no one I knew had a coal powered stove. The fuel embargo on civilians will hit pretty hard in no solution is made.

On another note. The house I lived at the point of time when the exchange would have happened had electric heating (an expensive situation decades later when I had to pay the bills), but still a wood-powered stove in the basement which was technically a lot more basic, of course. Now this was not an ancient house at this point of time, having been built by the early 1960s. I am sure though, that the people who bought and renovated the place have gotten rid of this appliance now...

I remember that my other grandparents back then also still heated using coal, coal which was actually delivered and stored (those houses were a lot older and a thoroug renovation of the whole borough ended these anciet rites of getting your hands dirty by the black gold).

However, I suspect that by the 1980s, getting a lot of houses heated was a lot easier to maintain than it would be in a similar 21st century scenario.

This actually puts the few surviving Germans at an advantage from their American counterparts. They, having to reconstruct after WWII didn't have the money to afford the newest appliances thus keeping the wood fired ones around longer. Even your house could have been partially heated from that small wooden stove. Though coming across coal will be nigh impossible unless they come across some kind of broke coal train.

Perhaps as they are fairly "easy" to machine, wood stoves could become common place with government subsidies?

In environments where such solutions might not apply, how about communal bedding in heatable places? It might be a lot more effective to heat up a large place for 200 people than heat 50 places for 4 people each. The downsides would of course be an easier spread of diseases and petty-crime. (However, birth rates might profit)

Perhaps that is a good reason for the refugee camps. Better heating for lots of people.
 

stalkere

Banned
?
If the Victor landed at Niagara Falls ARB - it's a mostly demilitarized runway by 1984, by still has enough length...basically, they just stopped maintaining/repairing the other 5000 feet of runway. It has 5000 feet of good runway and 5000 feet of weathered, decaying runway. Barely considered even an emergency field for B-52s at that point. Certainly not a force reconstitution base anymore by that point.

In DTYBOTWP - we're assuming the Jamestown bomb is the one that should have gone to Niagara Falls - so the field would still have electrical power, probably most of the amenities...

Of course, most of the C-130 unit on the base, and the Army helicopter unit on the base, would have gone to Germany, since they had early number in the REFORGER TPFDDL...so, SSgt Hunter, left behind because of his injury, might very well be one of the senior surviving members of the unit by this time (April?)

Now, just a dumb question - a Victor bomber - that runs on JP-4 or one of the JP- mixes, right? So, how are you going to run a Cessna on that? Not that I think it's a real problem - there's a tank farm and a small refinery on River Road, not far from the base, so AVGAS should not be a problem...at least for the first leg of the trip. But a Cessna say a 172, without extended range tanks, is not going to make the trip from Niagara Falls to Rome, GA in one hop. It's going to need to make one or two refueling stops, at least. Now, a Lear/Gulfstream OTOH...and I'm thinking those might be available - they were always hopping around the country, and with the Bell/Textron facility right there, there might even be a few available to be commandeered.
 

stalkere

Banned
Comment on wood stoves - in the 80s, between the energy crisis of the 70s and the rustbowl layoffs, a lot of folks in the area fell down several rungs on the economic ladder.

fuel oil became relatively expensive as incomes shrank - but the WNY area is heavily forested. Quite a few folks, outside the actual cities, put in wood stoves and either supplemented or replaced their dependence on fuel oil/natural gas for heating.

Not so much in the suburban tract homes built in the fifties and sixties - but even in those homes, people added wood stoves - and in the older houses, people opened up/refurbed old chimneys and put in wood stoves.

And, just because of the winters up here, power failures are a way of life, so a lot of folks have wood stoves and wood piles. Not so much in the urban areas, where there are regulations against coal and wood, but out in the suburbs - especially the semi-rural, and rural areas, you find the wood piles and coal piles.
 
?
If the Victor landed at Niagara Falls ARB - it's a mostly demilitarized runway by 1984, by still has enough length...basically, they just stopped maintaining/repairing the other 5000 feet of runway. It has 5000 feet of good runway and 5000 feet of weathered, decaying runway. Barely considered even an emergency field for B-52s at that point. Certainly not a force reconstitution base anymore by that point.

In DTYBOTWP - we're assuming the Jamestown bomb is the one that should have gone to Niagara Falls - so the field would still have electrical power, probably most of the amenities...

Of course, most of the C-130 unit on the base, and the Army helicopter unit on the base, would have gone to Germany, since they had early number in the REFORGER TPFDDL...so, SSgt Hunter, left behind because of his injury, might very well be one of the senior surviving members of the unit by this time (April?)

Now, just a dumb question - a Victor bomber - that runs on JP-4 or one of the JP- mixes, right? So, how are you going to run a Cessna on that? Not that I think it's a real problem - there's a tank farm and a small refinery on River Road, not far from the base, so AVGAS should not be a problem...at least for the first leg of the trip. But a Cessna say a 172, without extended range tanks, is not going to make the trip from Niagara Falls to Rome, GA in one hop. It's going to need to make one or two refueling stops, at least. Now, a Lear/Gulfstream OTOH...and I'm thinking those might be available - they were always hopping around the country, and with the Bell/Textron facility right there, there might even be a few available to be commandeered.

OK I'm not exactly an aircraft expert so I'll take your advice and commandeer a Leer jet. Editing the passage now. Though the Brits according to P&S landed at Griffis AFB though I can change some more cannon without causing too many heads to explode.

Comment on wood stoves - in the 80s, between the energy crisis of the 70s and the rustbowl layoffs, a lot of folks in the area fell down several rungs on the economic ladder.

fuel oil became relatively expensive as incomes shrank - but the WNY area is heavily forested. Quite a few folks, outside the actual cities, put in wood stoves and either supplemented or replaced their dependence on fuel oil/natural gas for heating.

Not so much in the suburban tract homes built in the fifties and sixties - but even in those homes, people added wood stoves - and in the older houses, people opened up/refurbed old chimneys and put in wood stoves.

And, just because of the winters up here, power failures are a way of life, so a lot of folks have wood stoves and wood piles. Not so much in the urban areas, where there are regulations against coal and wood, but out in the suburbs - especially the semi-rural, and rural areas, you find the wood piles and coal piles.

Thus they do have a stove at the AFB, however I was talking in general in the whole of the US. Most places besides the NE didn't have so much wood stove mania. In the south you were able to get by by turning the temperature down some degrees from last year. Any way it was the beginning of the sunbelt so incomes in some area were actually going up.

Though a majority of the country, NE, NW, Mid West you did see alot of wood stoves comming back, though in the Mid West and Great Planes a lot less wood meant a lot less wood stoves. You essentially buttoned up and slept in the room with the wood stove. I probably didn't think that through as well as I should have.
 

stalkere

Banned
If the Prospero Team landed at Griffiss AFB, then somebody in the Soviet Targeting Planners REALLY messed up big time.

B-52H wing - and ALCMs there, with an augmented weapons magazine. That place would get at least two MIRVs, if not three, and probably ground bursts, not airbursts.

Plus a two-for-one shot - Rome Air Development Center - a huge brain trust of American air development geekiness. definitely want to torch that place.
 
I also said "hmmmmm...." when Jack mentioned Griffiss. Well the Prospero team "intended" to land there...

MORE CANNON BENDING! :D
 
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Help.

I'm lost and at a crossroads.

Frankly I don't know how to continue the TL.

Should I next:

Finish telling the Prospero Redux?

Tell about the Californian War?

Or focus more on Cleveland?

Or Nevada?

Or Texas?

Or Something I haven't done yet?
 
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