I was hoping the dsa would decisevly beat the USA in the race, but still good as ever
Glen
Moderator
Well, a decisive victory would be nice, but given the resources available and the politics and economics of the matter, might have been a might questionable.
Now here's the real question - who do YOU ALL think won the race?
Glen
Moderator
Well, a decisive victory would be nice, but given the resources available and the politics and economics of the matter, might have been a might questionable.
Now here's the real question - who do YOU ALL think won the race?
The link to the poll that lets you chime in on who won:
Who Won The Great Transcontinental Railroad Race?
Glen
Moderator
I am not yet ready to post all of this to the Timeline, so we need to re-review briefly for what to use and what to modify.
Presidential Elections of the USA:
1789: George Washington/John Adams (I).
The election of 1789 occurred before political parties. General George Washington of Virginia, and his running mate, John Adams of Massachusetts, were elected President and Vice President with virtually no opposition.
1792: George Washington/John Adams (I).
Although some semblance of partisan structure was beginning to emerge by 1792, the presidential election was still nonpartisan, and Washington/Adams were reelected.
1796: John Adams/John Jay (F) vs. Thomas Jefferson/Aaron Burr (D-R).
The election of 1796 was the first truly competitive election, with the Federalists nominating John Adams of Massachusetts for President, and John Jay, of New York, for Vice President. The Democratic-Republicans nominated Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr. However, since Adams and Jay technically tied, the election went to the House, where Jay dropped out, making Adams President. Nevertheless, this incident resulted in the Constitutional Amendment modernizing the election system.
1800: John Adams/John Jay (F) vs. Thomas Jefferson/Aaron Burr (D-R).
A rematch of 1796, the election of 1800 resulted in Adams winning reelection over Jefferson.
1804: Thomas Jefferson/George Clinton (D-R) vs. Aaron Burr/James Wilkinson (F).
After a vicious battle for the Democratic-Republican nomination between twice-nominee Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr, Jefferson wins, and selects George Clinton his running mate. Burr switches parties and gets the Federalist nomination, making General James Wilkinson of Kentucky his running mate. Jefferson wins the election.
1808: Thomas Jefferson/George Clinton (D-R) vs. Alexander Hamilton/Oliver Wolcott, Jr. (F).
The popular Jefferson was easily reelected in 1808, when the Federalists nominated his former ally, Alexander Hamilton (who’d supported Jefferson in 1804!) of New York for President and Oliver Wolcott of Connecticut for Vice President. The Federalist Party would not recover from its poor performance in the late 1800s until the 1820s.
1811: George Clinton dies. There is some speculation over what happens now to the office of Vice President, but Jefferson, a strict constitutionalist, insists that it remain vacant, and it does. This begins a precedent.
1812: James Madison/Elbridge Gerry (D-R) vs. Rufus King/Jared Ingersoll (F).
James Madison of Virginia and Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts were the Democratic-Republican nominees in 1812. They were elected easily over the Federalist ticket of Rufus King of New York for President and Jared Ingersoll of Pennsylvania for Vice President.
1814: Elbridge Gerry dies. The position remains vacant.
1816: James Madison/DeWitt Clinton (D-R) vs. John Eagar Howard/James Ross (F).
With the death of Elbridge Gerry, Madison selects DeWitt Clinton, a relative of the late George Clinton, to be Vice President; Clinton’s group of New Yorkers were in limbo between the Democratic-Republicans and the Federalists, and Madison wanted to ensure they remained good Democratic-Republicans. The Federalists nominated John Eagar Howard of Maryland for President and James Ross of Pennsylvania for Vice President. Although a strong, experienced ticket, they were defeated in a landslide.
1820: John Quincy Adams/Richard Stockton (F) vs. DeWitt Clinton/William Plumer (D-R).
The Federalists bounced back rather suddenly in 1820 with the election of John Quincy Adams of Massachusetts (the son of the former president) and Richard Stockton of New Jersey President and Vice President, respectively. The Democratic-Republican ticket of DeWitt Clinton of New York and William Plumer of New Hampshire were defeated in the first D-R defeat since 1800.
1824: John Quincy Adams/Richard Stockton (F) vs. James Monroe/Daniel Tompkins (D-R).
The popular incumbents, Adams and Stockton, defeated their rivals, James Monroe of Virginia and Daniel Tompkins of New York, the Democratic-Republican nominees.
1828: Richard Stockton dies. The position remains vacant.
1828: John Andrew Shulze/Nathan Sanford (D-R) vs. Daniel Rodney/Richard Rush (F).
The Democratic-Republican ticket of John Shulze of Pennsylvania and Nathan Sanford of New York triumphed, defeating the Federalist ticket of Daniel Rodney of Delaware and Richard Rush of Pennsylvania. Shulze and Sanford were moderates, whilst Rodney and Rush were strong Federalists, and by the end of the campaign there was a sense that perhaps Shulze was the better candidate to continue Adams’ legacy.
1832: John Andrew Shulze/Nathan Sanford (D-R) vs. Richard Rush/William Wirt (F).
The popular Democratic-Republican incumbents Shulze and Sanford were easily reelected, defeating their Federalist opponents Richard Rush of Pennsylvania and William Wirt of Maryland.
1836: Peter Buell Porter/John Tyler (F) vs. Nathan Sanford/William Cabell Rives (D-R).
After the battle for the Federalist nomination deadlocked between four candidates (with two more minor ones), the party reached a compromise all could agree on: the former Secretary of War in the Adams government, Peter Buell Porter. Hoping to win the Democratic-Republican bastion of Virginia, Porter chose local Federalist Senator John Tyler as his running mate. The Democratic-Republicans did not have such a battle: Vice President Nathan Sanford was nominated without a fight, and experienced, prominent Virginia Senator William Cabell Rives became his running mate. Ultimately, Porter very, very narrowly defeated Sanford, and was inaugurated.
I would move the event where Jay had to drop out to ensure Adams election to 1800, not 1796. This would be more likely with the closer race that year, and also puts it in a better position for Condorcet to influence the method used in balloting in the amendment.
While this may be plausible, I don't really like it. It just sets things up for more mischief down the timeline and seems against the spirit of the times with an electoral amendment to ensure the proper election, why wouldn't they change the spare tire. The death is fine, its the precedent I don't like. Could still leave unfilled during Jefferson's presidency but that would then spur a movement towards an amendment overturning the precedent.
Neither ticket in the 1820 election has a Virginian! This seems hard to believe for the time.
Check on early life of Monroe. Somehow I seem to recall questioning him being a major political figure ITTL....also, tough to beat a ticket with Virginia on it without a Virginian to balance. Just a thought.
Again, don't like this idea of leaving Veep spots vacant due to death.
Again I must ask, what's happened to Virginia? Also, I need someone to check the births of all these Veeps and defeated opponents. How far into the divergence were they born?
I don't think you'd have OTL's John Tyler (unless this is a different Tyler). Also need to check those opponents for births. I like the bit about the nomination, feels right. Like having a Virginian on the ticket. If you're going to have Democrat ticket not have a Virginian at this point in time, there probably should be someone from a 'western' state, like Ohio.
Overall great effort. I will be interested to see what others think. Some of this will end up in the timeline officially, I am certain.
Still need to work on this.
Glen
Moderator
King George the Fifth died quite suddenly at the age of 52 in the year 1858. His eldest daughter, Elizabeth, born in 1837, would thus ascend to the throne of the United Kingdom at the tender age of 21. This formalized the separation of the personal union between Hanover (now part of Germany) and Great Britain. While her father had come to side with the Liberals during the Reform Revolution as a matter of practicality, Elizabeth naturally leaned toward them. Thus when she was crowned Queen Elizabeth II, a new age was born, the Second Elizabethan Age. Elizabeth's reign would prove one of innovation but also controversy.
Updates!
So in this TL I expect we will see the world covered in places or institutions named after Elizabeth (as IOTL we see Victoria)?
So in this TL I expect we will see the world covered in places or institutions named after Elizabeth (as IOTL we see Victoria)?
Its great to see this TL back in action, and covering topics as varied as the trans-continental railroad in great detail, an inyteresting departure from the usual themes explored in timelines on AH.com
Glen
Moderator
Thank you - we do try to build the picture of an alternate culture, not just alternate outcomes of wars and elections.
Glen
Moderator
It was in the Presidential Election of 1844 that the United States of America gained her first Franco-American President, Pierre Nicolas de Condorcet. Pierre Nicolas de Condorcet was born in Quebec to his parents, recent emigres Sophie and Nicolas de Condorcet. His father, of course, was known as a famed philosopher, mathematician, and politician, and this did not hurt Pierre's early political career - indeed, partly to capitalize on the fame of his father, the former Marquis de Condorcet, that he chose to use de Condorcet as his surname rather than the older family name of Caritat. He ran on the Democratic ticket against the incumbent President Porter. There is some dispute as to whether or not President Condorcet was the first Catholic President of the United States. He did attend Catholic Church with his wife who came from a long established French Quebec Catholic family, but it is not known whether he was ever confirmed in the church. Also throwing the question into doubt were his strong associations with prominent Deists in Quebec and elsewhere. His father, of course, was a firm atheist.
President Pierre Nicolas de Condorcet
President Pierre Nicolas de Condorcet
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Earl_of_Somerset
Banned
Cool an Early Catholic President.
I assume the Catholic Church will have a much greater role in the united states because they lose the non catholic south (Lousiana is an exception), and they gain the Catholic Quebec
I assume the Catholic Church will have a much greater role in the united states because they lose the non catholic south (Lousiana is an exception), and they gain the Catholic Quebec
Oooh, a nice original bit. I always wondered how a USA would deal with an early Francophone President (even if he pulls a Van Buren and makes English his primary language).
I presume there's still no real conflict between Francophones and Anglophones by this point in the timeline, which would be nice to hear.
Good work once more!
I presume there's still no real conflict between Francophones and Anglophones by this point in the timeline, which would be nice to hear.
Good work once more!