WI: David Lynch directs Return of the Jedi...

I've always loved this quote from Wiki...

"Following on from the success of The Elephant Man, the film maker George Lucas, himself a fan of Eraserhead, offered Lynch the opportunity to direct the third film in his Star Wars trilogy, Return of the Jedi. Lynch however refused, arguing that Lucas should direct the film himself as the movie should reflect his own vision, not Lynch's take on it."

Let's say Lynch changes his mind. What sort of a ROTJ do you think we would see?
 
Interesting if that`s true. Is it possible that with Lynch at the helm, ROTJ would be even darker than ESB? I`m not sure, though I think it`s safe to say Lynch would take the Wookies over the Ewoks. Either that, or the Ewoks become more...creepy. Seriously, can`t you just imagine a pack of Ewoks jumping a Stormtrooper and eating it alive?:eek:
 
I gotta be honest, I just don't see how this would work out to anyone's benefit. Lynch seems to work best when doing his own thing, and not trying to adapt someone else's work (least of all a big f'n franchise). Plus he apparently wasn't that big on Science Fiction, I mean look how DUNE turned out.

And that's IF he and Lucas could actually WORK together. Lucas was starting to make "the change" in and around this time, and that's why we got Ewoks instead of Wookies on Endor. It's just two completely different approaches to filming. I could just see Lynch walking off the project after one argument too many.

If they'd actually manage to get SOMETHING done (or compromise) with this, it'd probably be a jumbled mess. And coming off the heels of Empire Strikes Back, it might have even run the risk of killing Star Wars as a bankable franchise.

I guess a similar example as to how something like this would've played out is how "Superman Lives" never got made.
 
There would be a major difference between Dune and ROTJ. In Dune, he was trying to cram the entire friggin' book into 2 hours, and therefore you got a lot of hamfisted exposition and pacing which suuucked. ROTJ is a screenplay right off the bat.
 

Thande

Donor
Lynch might have preferred the more morally ambiguous earlier drafts of ROTJ, when the Death Star was being built around Coruscant (well, "Had Abaddon", but it's basically Coruscant) and Luke killed Vader as the Emperor demanded and put on his helmet, taking his place as the Emperor's new apprentice, but then turned the Death Star's superlaser on Coruscant rather than the Rebel fleet and destroyed the planet, toppling the Empire. Yeah.
 
Lynch might have preferred the more morally ambiguous earlier drafts of ROTJ, when the Death Star was being built around Coruscant (well, "Had Abaddon", but it's basically Coruscant) and Luke killed Vader as the Emperor demanded and put on his helmet, taking his place as the Emperor's new apprentice, but then turned the Death Star's superlaser on Coruscant rather than the Rebel fleet and destroyed the planet, toppling the Empire. Yeah.
This is the only way George Lucas could have raped my childhood with quality.
 

Thande

Donor
This is the only way George Lucas could have raped my childhood with quality.

I just love the fact that nobody seems to have questioned the idea that Luke obliterating a city planet of a trillion people, most of whom would be civilians, might just be a tad morally questionable. I mean there was enough palaver in the EU about him destroying the Death Star with a million people, and all of those were military (though admittedly some were conscripted against their will).
 
I just love the fact that nobody seems to have questioned the idea that Luke obliterating a city planet of a trillion people, most of whom would be civilians, might just be a tad morally questionable. I mean there was enough palaver in the EU about him destroying the Death Star with a million people, and all of those were military (though admittedly some were conscripted against their will).

It's War. People can justify such things when it's war. :p

The original Death Star was about to obliterate YET ANOTHER planet, so yeah... there's that to consider.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I just love the fact that nobody seems to have questioned the idea that Luke obliterating a city planet of a trillion people, most of whom would be civilians, might just be a tad morally questionable. I mean there was enough palaver in the EU about him destroying the Death Star with a million people, and all of those were military (though admittedly some were conscripted against their will).

Aw...come on! We went over this on Clerks: they had to have independent contractors on the Death Star that weren't military. "You think the average stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet main? Fuck no! All they know are killing in white uniforms."
 
Interesting if that`s true. Is it possible that with Lynch at the helm, ROTJ would be even darker than ESB? I`m not sure, though I think it`s safe to say Lynch would take the Wookies over the Ewoks. Either that, or the Ewoks become more...creepy. Seriously, can`t you just imagine a pack of Ewoks jumping a Stormtrooper and eating it alive?:eek:

Oh my God he could make awesome the one thing that hurt ROTJ for me, though for some reason I always thought the idea of a group of lizard/reptilians (you know, the typical bad guy species in every work of fiction ever) would be on the side of the good guys for once.
 
I just love the fact that nobody seems to have questioned the idea that Luke obliterating a city planet of a trillion people, most of whom would be civilians, might just be a tad morally questionable. I mean there was enough palaver in the EU about him destroying the Death Star with a million people, and all of those were military (though admittedly some were conscripted against their will).

Mind if I sig this Thande?
 
Oh my God he could make awesome the one thing that hurt ROTJ for me, though for some reason I always thought the idea of a group of lizard/reptilians (you know, the typical bad guy species in every work of fiction ever) would be on the side of the good guys for once.

That would be interesting.

Heck, if the idea for the Ssi-Ruuk was around this early, it could be them?

Of course, that might not work--the Ssi-Ruuk were originally allies of the Empire, whom Palpatine allowed to attack isolated Imperial worlds in exchange for technology. They'd need to have their back-stories changed.
 

Hendryk

Banned
The cooperation between Lucas and Lynch would probably become tense after a while, considering their wildly divergent artistic visions. In the early 1980s Lucas was in full regressive mode, a symptom of which was his half-baked idea to replace the Wookiees with little teddy bears. Meanwhile Lynch was into moral ambiguity, layers of symbolism and onirical stuff. But assuming the project was carried through to completion, it would almost certainly have been an improvement over OTL's version.
 
The cooperation between Lucas and Lynch would probably become tense after a while, considering their wildly divergent artistic visions. In the early 1980s Lucas was in full regressive mode, a symptom of which was his half-baked idea to replace the Wookiees with little teddy bears. Meanwhile Lynch was into moral ambiguity, layers of symbolism and onirical stuff. But assuming the project was carried through to completion, it would almost certainly have been an improvement over OTL's version.
I can see the layers of ambiguity, morality, and symbolism working in ROTJ. While I really do like that film (and truth be told, it was my favorite of the 3 growing up), it is a bit weak because it doesn't go for the gusto and pulls some punches. You have Luke in final confrontation with the forces of Evil, his father, and his father's father figure, along with Luke's own misgivings and ambiguity about staying on the Light side or going to the Dark side. Should he kill his father to become his father? Should he or can he redeem his father? What is his destiny? The morality of the film should have been straight out of ESB, and have gone dark then to light or at least grey. Taking into account the early drafts, Luke should have fallen to the dark side, and then been redeemed at the end.
 
I can see the layers of ambiguity, morality, and symbolism working in ROTJ. While I really do like that film (and truth be told, it was my favorite of the 3 growing up), it is a bit weak because it doesn't go for the gusto and pulls some punches. You have Luke in final confrontation with the forces of Evil, his father, and his father's father figure, along with Luke's own misgivings and ambiguity about staying on the Light side or going to the Dark side. Should he kill his father to become his father? Should he or can he redeem his father? What is his destiny? The morality of the film should have been straight out of ESB, and have gone dark then to light or at least grey. Taking into account the early drafts, Luke should have fallen to the dark side, and then been redeemed at the end.

Perhaps Luke, remembering his earlier insistence Vader could be redeemed, keeps more self-control when he beats his father down.

He doesn't see the robotic hand and realize he's in danger of becoming his father. However, given his focus on his dad, when Palpatine does his whole "take your father's place" thing, Luke says "no" dramatically and engages Palpatine in battle. Given how he already used one Dark Side power already in the film (the Force Choke, in Jabba's Palace), maybe he can summon Force Lightning?

(It wouldn't be that much, just enough to surprise Palpatine and show how close to the edge Luke is getting.)

He momentarily triumphs (due to Palpatine's age and overconfidence), Vader starts going on about how he's joined the Dark Side and they CAN rule together, and *that* is Luke's system-shock. He refuses to finish Palpatine, saying the Jedi don't kill helpless enemies, and then Palpatine does his "so be it, Jedi" routine and overpowers Luke.

Palpatine, even more PO'd because he'd been bested, however temporarily, is even more deliberately sadistic than in the canon film. This awakens Anakin Skywalker and we get the reactor-shaft end that Palpatine got in the canon film.

Is that properly morally ambiguous?
 
Lynch might have preferred the more morally ambiguous earlier drafts of ROTJ, when the Death Star was being built around Coruscant (well, "Had Abaddon", but it's basically Coruscant) and Luke killed Vader as the Emperor demanded and put on his helmet, taking his place as the Emperor's new apprentice, but then turned the Death Star's superlaser on Coruscant rather than the Rebel fleet and destroyed the planet, toppling the Empire. Yeah.

WOW. Now that would have been a truly vast improvement over the tripe which we actually got, IMOHO of course.
 
Here's another idea:

Perhaps Palpatine allowing the Ssi-Ruuk to raid the outer Empire led to unrest among Imperial commanders who want to protect the people, so Palpatine decides to back-stab them?

The Ssi-Ruuk then make a deal with the Rebellion--military assistance in exchange for allowing them to "entech" (harvest the souls to power their war machines) Imperial POWs?

Many of the Rebels would be opposed to this, but if the Rebels end up in a tight spot (perhaps the realization that the DS II really is "operational"), they contact the Ssi-Ruuk and agree to the bargain?

And another idea, added to my "Luke temporarily beats Palpatine" scenario:

Palpatine, defeated, begs for his life. He reveals to Luke the coming Yuuzhan Vong (sp?) and said that if he falls, the resulting civil war will leave the galaxy ripe for their brutal conquest. He could state that his goal for building the Empire was to ensure the galaxy was strong enough to fight them.

Both scenarios are more "gray"--the Rebellion is willing to sell out human populations to aliens and the Empire is uniting the galaxy against a dangerous enemy.
 
I think I'll post a combination of those scenarios on my blog. Maybe I'll get some attention from the SW fanboys.
If I recall, Han was supposed to die midway through the film so that there'd by a sense that no one was safe, and Luke was supposed to fall to the dark side, but I remember a scenario where Leia went Jedi and saved him.
 
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