Challenge: Most likely map after Napoleonic Victory
- Thread starter Kriegdämmerung
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Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I was just about to say "wow, four posts and nobody's gratuitously and unexplainedly dismembered the Ottoman Empire yet", but I was premature.
There are no Greek or Bulgarian states, so how they managed to suddenly appear and become gigantic is of course problematic, but don't let that stop anyone.
Why does it matter so badly every time? Can't you just let it go once?
Pasha, I understand the frustration behind the Ottoman Empire breaking up in many TLs. It is indeed a cliché. But the way I see it Ottoman-wanks are just as common a cliché and the Ottoman Empire did break up in OTL. Because it is an area that is mentioned in most TLs, most possible scenarios have been seen several times (a very similar thing happens to Mexico and the Mex-American war in most TLs as well as Japan's expansion).
The way I explain it or had though about it for this scenario was that Franco-Ottoman relations go sour (as they did in OTL) when Napoleon takes power and for the remainder of his rule things don't improve. The Ottomans have it way rougher in the 1800s.
The end result was inspired by the outcome Zach's Napoleonic Victory.
Greece achieves its independence early on and strengthens quite better than in OTL. The scenario for this map needs a similar introduction for Bulgaria.
In the 1900s the new Russian Republic looks for ways to make its loses in the Baltics. Not wanting to mess further with Poland and Sweden y looks south and finds allies more than willing shift the power in Asia Minor.
BTW Ioseb Besarionis (Stalin) is President of the South Caucasus at some point here.
Because the cliche is rather ill-based, departing from historically innacurate rhetorics that it was a "backward traditionalist prison of nations" plus how everybody is just plain oblivious that prior to 1878 Balkans was approximately half-muslim, and that her achievements were under-credited so severely, amongst many other things, which includes plain ignorance, whether on purpose or not, as was shown by jycee's scenario. (though now at least it's Bulgarian rather than Greek Constantinople...)
To be fair, jycee is no where near Ottoman expert as Pasha is. So why not we give Pasha the chance how to treat Ottoman Empire more realistically ? It's not impossible, but a decent insight to project destruction of the empire would be needed to make it realistic.
Ottoman-wanks being as common cliche as anti-Ottoman-wank is a recent phenomenon. Try move backward for a couple of years from now, it was not exactly the case.
Oh, and it didn't break up. It was dismantled by foreign powers' interferences (not to optimal success of course), and then got partially conquered by the British in WWI.
Alright it was dismantled. But it ultimately fell apart and the powers who dismantled it where looking for the first opportunity to do so anyways (and in a way they got lucky Russia collapsed before it got a chance to also help with the partition).
Anyway this was supposed to be a thread on ideas for a Napoleonic Victory TL. Any other takers? ideas out there?
I love these maps! FIRST OFF, my comments/criticism...
wilcox
Marvelous work!
What I like:
Kingdom of Spain (incl. Portugal) - interesting idea! When I first saw that, I thought I would use that in a TL. [Only thing, is it would have to be a long-term development. Napoleon's original plan was to divide Portugal in three: Northern Lusitania, (rump) Portugal, and Algarve, with Portugal being annexed to the French Empire and the remaining two states being French vassals. Perhaps, over time the Portuguese states are annexed to Spain, to ease any bad blood between the French and Spaniards and also satisfy the wishes of pan-Iberian nationalists. Problem is you do not give any sort of date for your map, nor do most other posters for that matter, but based on the appearance of Europe, it does not look very "long-term."] However, I find it funny that the frontier between France and Spain remained at the Pyrenees when Napoleon planned to annex the entirety of Catalonia, and clearly something major happened in the Peninsular War of your TL!
What you did with the Confederation of the Rhine, reduced to five states. (But how does Denmark get Mecklenburg? Schleswig-Holstein makes sense, but Mecklenburg seems like a stretch...) I think your division of the Confederation of the Rhine is fairly reasonable, even precedented, though of course I would include Mecklenburg for six.
What I dislike:
No Poland?! (You even have a Free City of Danzig but no Poland?)
Other than that, not many dislikes, just a few nomenclature problems. "Empire of France" and "Empire of Russia" should be French Empire and Russian Empire respectively. Also, you mislabeled Kingdom of Sicily and Kingdom of Naples, they should be switched. And no offense, but "Republic of Illyria" makes no sense! (Albanians are Illyrians, for starters.) Should probably be "Croat Republic" or something...
Also, I think some of the borders ought to look different. Switzerland (Helvetic Republic) should be much smaller, particularly in the Francophone South and West. (The French annexed the Jura early in the course of the French Revolutionary Wars, followed by the vicinity of Geneva and the Francophone Rhodanic Republic. Neuchatel was not part of Switzerland at the time.) Also, North Africa is too much like OTL present day (with Algeria renamed Al-Djazir). I assume that you left the shape of Moldavia and Wallachia as they were on the base map? (Being as whatever map you modified must have shown them as autonomous Ottoman territories.)
Questions:
Unfortunately, your color scheme does not show which states are fully independent and which states are French clients/dependencies. I presume that ALL the states outside of France are French protectorates except for Austria, Denmark, the Ottoman Empire, Prussia, Russia, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. For instance, Moldavia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Wallachia HAVE to be French satellites into Ottoman domains. Likewise, I imagine Sardinia and Sicily would be vassalized.
Zach
Love your TL, I have seen it before and I am impressed with the volume of the work alone! (Though I must say, the Peninsular Campaign went by way too conveniently easy!) That said...
Questions:
What happened to Northern Lusitania? (And "Southern Lusitania" should probably be "Algarve.") It appears to have disappeared into Spain.
Orko
What I like:
Rump Basque state.
French annexation of Sardinia.
Your map of the Balkans is highly plausible. (Client Romania, Serbia, and Morea.)
What Napoleon did with the British Isles. (Dismembered the United Kingdom, freed Ireland and Scotland, and occupied England. But how did the French invade? Was a Chunnel constructed? By balloon?) I think it exceeds the constraints set by Krieg, but who cares? I like it.
What I dislike:
Nothing in particular, though to be honest some of the borders are a little sloppy, but the blame probably lies with whoever created the original map you worked off of.
Questions:
How did the French invade Great Britain again?
As with Zach, what happened to Northern Lusitania? Why does Spain get it?
Also, why is rump Portugal merely a client state but Algarve under military occupation? (IOTL, Napoleon planned to directly annex Portugal, not Algarve.)
What happened with Scandinavia? The two Scandinavian Kingdoms become client states. Is there a reason? Also, some major territorial adjustment was enacted!
Yorel
What I like:
It is obvious that you used Lord Sander's maps as a template, as did I, but I am a bit biased! Excellent work!
Like the enlarged Poland...
What I dislike:
Nothing that I can see!
Questions:
Seeing as Napoleonic France must have won the Peninsular War, why are New Spain, Florida, New Granada, and Peru still Spanish (and Rio de la Plata nominally Spanish)? Unless the Spanish Bourbons are ruling in exile (as with Portugal/Brazil IOTL) from somewhere in the New World...
I noticed that you broke convention in regards to map coloration. This has the advantage of making your map less boring (by having fewer big white states, wish I was that creative!), but the disadvantage of making things confusing. For instance, you used different colors for states and territories of the United States of America (which confused at least one other person), but I do like the unique shade of yellow for the Persian Empire, that strange shade of brown for Sicily, and that you made Saudi Arabia jungle green and both Oman and the Swahili Coast light purple. About that, the jungle green state IS Saudi Arabia, right? And what is the deal with Oman and Zanzibarland? Are the two states in personal union? Is the Swahili Coast a colony of Oman?
jycee
What I like:
United Greater Netherlands. How all of Brabant, Flanders, and Holland are united in the Batavian Republic (including Belgian Flanders and "French Flanders" within the region of Nord-Pas-de-Calais) but Wallonia remains French, breaking the cliché of uber-Netherlands getting all of Belgium, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, and Luxembourg.
Your boundaries for Greece strike me as surprisingly plausible (in the long run anyways), almost perfect! (Where did you get those borders from?)
United independent Ireland.
Independent Kurdistan.
What I dislike:
Token independent "Algrave" state. Really, what's the point of an independent Algarve so small? Might as well keep it part of Portugal!
Andorra. Seeing as there is already an independent Catalonia, this strikes me as irredeemably silly! Why not simply make it part of Catalonia? (Also, the boundary between Spanish Catalonia and France extends almost halfway across the length of the French-Spanish border from the Mediterranean, and Andorra, which is about 1/3-way in from the Mediterranean, is between France and Spanish Catalonia.) Whether Catalonia is annexed by France, or is made independent for whatever reason, Andorra should not exist in either event.
Switzerland: too large (see above comments).
The boundaries between "Courland" and "Livland" look really weird! (Like Livland sat on Courland and flattened it or something.) Lithuania looks much more natural.
The border between Russia on the East and Poland and Romania on the West looks unnaturally straight, as if someone sliced the map like a pizza.
Serbia gets all of (Muslim) Bosnia... that can't turn out very well!
And for that matter, Bulgaria gets Albania and Kosovo. Since when were Albanians Bulgarian? And how does Bulgaria get Istanbul/Constantinople and the entire Hellespont (Thrace-Dardanelles-Marmara-Bosporus)?
Independent Cyprus makes NO sense in this context. Why not give it to Greece?
Why Syria? That seems like a very odd name! Why not Arabia?
And since it is obvious that "Palestine" is a Jewish state why not Israel? [Then again, while there may be a justifiable reason for an independent Basque country or Catalonia, seeing as jycee whimsically included midget-Algarve and Andorra where Catalonia would serve its function, perhaps "Palestine" is an independent Arab state included amidst uber-Syria just for the hell of it.] Not to mention, Israel/Palestine looks disproportionately small!
So I understand your grievances, but in fairness, you seem to have thought that the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire happened overnight, when it seems fairly apparent that the map is of a long-term projection. But I grant that jycee's map is the silliest! The only other map to show an independent Greece was that of Orko, wherein it consists solely of Morea and Crete (probably the Ionian Islands too), more plausible by far! I actually think that Zach's TL gives a very plausible account of Hellenic independence and expansion.
NOW, FOR MY MAP...
I have been meaning to do a Napoleonic victory TL for the longest time but never got around to it, partly because when I composed a rather lengthy essay on the subject nearly two years ago some fucking asshole, who shall remain nameless, decided to be a smartass, and an all-around royal dick, to me...
...but mostly because I was short on time. The reception to my essay was positive all around, with some fans and others who provided constructive criticism (disregarding, of course, the aforementioned pompous cock who shall remain nameless).
What follows is a map of the world some decades after Napoleon's triumphant victory (i.e. c. 1860's or 1870's), specifically after the death of Napoleon I and the abdication of Napoleon II. Accordingly, the world as of the map is far from "matured."
The Western Powers: Austria (Empire of Austria-Bohemia-Hungary), Denmark, France, Great Britain, Ottoman Empire, Prussia, Russia, Sweden, United States of America
Powers in-Exile: Kingdom of Portugal (Empire of Brazil), Kingdom of Spain (Viceroyalty of New Spain: Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines/Spanish East Indies)
Other Major Powers: Argentina, China, Colombia, Ethiopian Empire, Japan, Mexico, Persian Empire, Peru (Peruvian-Bolivian Federation), Siam/Thailand
France and the French clients/dependencies/protectorates/satellites/vassals
FRENCH REPUBLIC - Paris
Note that I do not know enough about Africa, the Caucasus, or Central Asia to realistically map developments. In the case of Africa, I tentatively left native states as they were circa 1812 (at least according to Lord Sander & comrades). By the time indicated by the map (i.e. mid-late 19th century), Africa would probably be more colonized than indicated, but not by that much. The lack of a scramble for Africa slows the land-grabbing process. The only significant Western colonial powers in Africa are Britain and Brazil (Portugal-in-exile), while the French mostly rule indirectly (Barbary Republic, Cape, Madagascar, Swahili Coast, probably some states in the Sahel). Abyssinia/Ethiopia is the main native power in Black Africa. The Confederation of the Cape is a collection of dependent states under French protection roughly corresponding in area, more or less, to OTL South Africa. The dominant groups are the Zulus and the Afrikaners. (The Zulus defeat the British with French assistance and the Boers remain in Cape Colony, so no trek, no Orange Free State or Transvaal...) The Confederation of the Cape eventually evolves into a federation and, assuming colonization of Africa parallels OTL, is the first independent country in sub-Saharan Africa after Ethiopia. (Well except maybe for Zanzibarland or some Sudanic state(s): Darfur? Kordofan? Mali or Songhai state?) Meanwhile, Brazil maintains Portuguese claims to the African colonies of Mozambique and Angola/Portuguese Congo. This could lead to further scrambles in Africa and even a major war with the British.
The lack of a Congress of Vienna means that any remaining European colonies mostly go to the United Kingdom or France (the British have a HUGE head start in this department owing to naval supremacy). For instance, the British would permanently annex the Dutch East Indies and Portuguese Timor. The dismantling of Portugal also means loss of Portuguese colonies on the Indian subcontinent to the British, and probably at least some African colonies of Portugal (Cape Verde?) also go to the British, while remaining Portuguese claims pass to Brazil and the Chinese retake Macao. The Venezuelans might seize the Dutch Antilles while the main chain of the Lesser Antilles remains contested between the British and French.
Please also note that this map is part of a work in progress. For instance, there may be some "anachronisms." (I.e. around the time depicted perhaps the Kingdom of Spain has not yet become the Iberian Republic as the monarchy has not yet been abolished.) I go for the more "conservative" approach, i.e. the Austrian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia, and United Kingdom are left intact, as opposed to a wank in which all those powers are dismembered. Also, I tentatively leave rump Switzerland as is, because I am unsure what happens. (Do the French annex Switzerland entirely, along with Geneva, the Jura, the Rhodanic Republic (all annexed to France IOTL), and Neuchatel (planned/proposed annexation)? Is rump Switzerland (reduced to its Germanic core) annexed to uber-Bayern ("Greater Bavaria") along with Baden, Hohenzollern, Liechtenstein, Wurttemburg, and Wurzburg? Is rump Switzerland placed into the Confederation of the Rhine? Is it divided up between Italy, France, and the German states? Is it left in place? And if so, does it default to the Swiss Confederation or is the Helvetic Republic rebuilt?)
POLARITY & DIPLOMACY
The world is multipolar, with Europe being locally unipolar (France having almost total hegemony with the Austrian Empire as the main counterweight or balance in "Europe proper" i.e. Eurasia west of the Ottoman Empire and the Russian Empire), the USA being the dominant power in North America (though the New World as a whole is multipolar), the Ottoman Turks remaining the primary power over the Middle East, China being the principle hegemon in the Far East, and the British being the primary hegemon in most of the rest of the world. (Or in sum, the top powers are France, the USA, Britain, and China. Russia, Persia, and the Ottoman Empire are "declining powers" while China, the US, and the Latin American nations are "rising powers.")
The world is generally peaceful, comparable to OTL, but for much of the time, there is a Cold War of sorts between Britain and France.
Of course, while the United States of America becomes a superpower, it never becomes the aggressive empire of OTL.
Many non-Western nations are buttressed by the French to act as counters to the British and other Western powers: Abyssinia/Ethiopia, China, Persia, Siam/Thailand, the Hispanic countries. For instance, Persia acts as a buffer against British, Ottoman, and Russian aims on the Middle East and Central Asia, while a large and powerful Ethiopia frustrates British and other colonial ambitions in Africa. Accordingly, you can expect the Chinese, Japanese, Persians, Thais or even the Abyssinians/Ethiopians to "pull a Meiji."
As stated, this is a world in development, somewhat more stable than OTL, but by no means in final form. Some likely developments from this point on: further colonization of Africa; dissolution of the Russian Empire (following a French-style bourgeois revolution) leading to loss of western territories such as Finland, the Ukraine, and the Baltic countries; dissolution of the Hapsburg Empire; Croatian independence (from France, expansion into former Hapsburg territories); unification of Romania; unification of Germany; expansion of Poland (already at maximum Western extent, but to the south-Galicia, to the east-at the expense of Russia, and MAYBE north-"Polish Corridor" or Danzig/Gdansk and West Prussia); Irish independence (or at least Dominion status); Hellenic expansion at the expense of the Ottoman Empire (Greece already has Crete, Cyprus, the Ionian Islands, and most of the Aegean); Serb expansion (at the expense of Ottomans and into former Hapsburg territories); Bulgarian independence; independence of Albania and Bosnia; POSSIBLE American acquisition of Greenland; POSSIBLE dynastic union of Kingdom of Denmark and Kingdom of Sweden (Kalmar Union part deux?); possible emergence of one or more independent Arab state(s) on the Arabian peninsula and/or the Levant (and subsequent dissolution of the Ottoman Empire); probable balkanization of the Persian Empire; some as-of-now unforeseen developments in the Caucasus region; disbanding of the Viceroyalty of New Spain (resulting in the discontinuity of the Spanish Bourbon dynasty) leading to the independence of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines; abdication of the Braganza dynasty, establishing the Republic of Brazil; independence of colonized nations in Africa, India, and Malaya; Australia given dominion status and probably eventually independence; formation of a European Union (much earlier than OTL!)...
Map following...
BONUS IF YOU CAN GUESS THE POD - WHAT HAPPENED AND THE YEAR. [DOUBLE BONUS IF YOU CAN PINPOINT THE EXACT MONTH WHEN THE POD TOOK EFFECT!] ANY QUESTIONS? ASK AWAY!
wilcox
Marvelous work!
What I like:Kingdom of Spain (incl. Portugal) - interesting idea! When I first saw that, I thought I would use that in a TL. [Only thing, is it would have to be a long-term development. Napoleon's original plan was to divide Portugal in three: Northern Lusitania, (rump) Portugal, and Algarve, with Portugal being annexed to the French Empire and the remaining two states being French vassals. Perhaps, over time the Portuguese states are annexed to Spain, to ease any bad blood between the French and Spaniards and also satisfy the wishes of pan-Iberian nationalists. Problem is you do not give any sort of date for your map, nor do most other posters for that matter, but based on the appearance of Europe, it does not look very "long-term."] However, I find it funny that the frontier between France and Spain remained at the Pyrenees when Napoleon planned to annex the entirety of Catalonia, and clearly something major happened in the Peninsular War of your TL!
What you did with the Confederation of the Rhine, reduced to five states. (But how does Denmark get Mecklenburg? Schleswig-Holstein makes sense, but Mecklenburg seems like a stretch...) I think your division of the Confederation of the Rhine is fairly reasonable, even precedented, though of course I would include Mecklenburg for six.
What I dislike:No Poland?! (You even have a Free City of Danzig but no Poland?)
Other than that, not many dislikes, just a few nomenclature problems. "Empire of France" and "Empire of Russia" should be French Empire and Russian Empire respectively. Also, you mislabeled Kingdom of Sicily and Kingdom of Naples, they should be switched. And no offense, but "Republic of Illyria" makes no sense! (Albanians are Illyrians, for starters.) Should probably be "Croat Republic" or something...
Also, I think some of the borders ought to look different. Switzerland (Helvetic Republic) should be much smaller, particularly in the Francophone South and West. (The French annexed the Jura early in the course of the French Revolutionary Wars, followed by the vicinity of Geneva and the Francophone Rhodanic Republic. Neuchatel was not part of Switzerland at the time.) Also, North Africa is too much like OTL present day (with Algeria renamed Al-Djazir). I assume that you left the shape of Moldavia and Wallachia as they were on the base map? (Being as whatever map you modified must have shown them as autonomous Ottoman territories.)
Questions:Unfortunately, your color scheme does not show which states are fully independent and which states are French clients/dependencies. I presume that ALL the states outside of France are French protectorates except for Austria, Denmark, the Ottoman Empire, Prussia, Russia, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. For instance, Moldavia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Wallachia HAVE to be French satellites into Ottoman domains. Likewise, I imagine Sardinia and Sicily would be vassalized.
Zach
Love your TL, I have seen it before and I am impressed with the volume of the work alone! (Though I must say, the Peninsular Campaign went by way too conveniently easy!) That said...
Questions:What happened to Northern Lusitania? (And "Southern Lusitania" should probably be "Algarve.") It appears to have disappeared into Spain.
Orko
What I like:Rump Basque state.
French annexation of Sardinia.
Your map of the Balkans is highly plausible. (Client Romania, Serbia, and Morea.)
What Napoleon did with the British Isles. (Dismembered the United Kingdom, freed Ireland and Scotland, and occupied England. But how did the French invade? Was a Chunnel constructed? By balloon?) I think it exceeds the constraints set by Krieg, but who cares? I like it.
What I dislike:Nothing in particular, though to be honest some of the borders are a little sloppy, but the blame probably lies with whoever created the original map you worked off of.
Questions:How did the French invade Great Britain again?
As with Zach, what happened to Northern Lusitania? Why does Spain get it?
Also, why is rump Portugal merely a client state but Algarve under military occupation? (IOTL, Napoleon planned to directly annex Portugal, not Algarve.)
What happened with Scandinavia? The two Scandinavian Kingdoms become client states. Is there a reason? Also, some major territorial adjustment was enacted!
Yorel
What I like:It is obvious that you used Lord Sander's maps as a template, as did I, but I am a bit biased! Excellent work!
Like the enlarged Poland...
What I dislike:Nothing that I can see!
Questions:Seeing as Napoleonic France must have won the Peninsular War, why are New Spain, Florida, New Granada, and Peru still Spanish (and Rio de la Plata nominally Spanish)? Unless the Spanish Bourbons are ruling in exile (as with Portugal/Brazil IOTL) from somewhere in the New World...
I noticed that you broke convention in regards to map coloration. This has the advantage of making your map less boring (by having fewer big white states, wish I was that creative!), but the disadvantage of making things confusing. For instance, you used different colors for states and territories of the United States of America (which confused at least one other person), but I do like the unique shade of yellow for the Persian Empire, that strange shade of brown for Sicily, and that you made Saudi Arabia jungle green and both Oman and the Swahili Coast light purple. About that, the jungle green state IS Saudi Arabia, right? And what is the deal with Oman and Zanzibarland? Are the two states in personal union? Is the Swahili Coast a colony of Oman?
jycee
What I like:United Greater Netherlands. How all of Brabant, Flanders, and Holland are united in the Batavian Republic (including Belgian Flanders and "French Flanders" within the region of Nord-Pas-de-Calais) but Wallonia remains French, breaking the cliché of uber-Netherlands getting all of Belgium, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, and Luxembourg.
Your boundaries for Greece strike me as surprisingly plausible (in the long run anyways), almost perfect! (Where did you get those borders from?)
United independent Ireland.
Independent Kurdistan.
What I dislike:Token independent "Algrave" state. Really, what's the point of an independent Algarve so small? Might as well keep it part of Portugal!
Andorra. Seeing as there is already an independent Catalonia, this strikes me as irredeemably silly!
Why not simply make it part of Catalonia? (Also, the boundary between Spanish Catalonia and France extends almost halfway across the length of the French-Spanish border from the Mediterranean, and Andorra, which is about 1/3-way in from the Mediterranean, is between France and Spanish Catalonia.) Whether Catalonia is annexed by France, or is made independent for whatever reason, Andorra should not exist in either event.Switzerland: too large (see above comments).
The boundaries between "Courland" and "Livland" look really weird! (Like Livland sat on Courland and flattened it or something.) Lithuania looks much more natural.
The border between Russia on the East and Poland and Romania on the West looks unnaturally straight, as if someone sliced the map like a pizza.
Serbia gets all of (Muslim) Bosnia... that can't turn out very well!
And for that matter, Bulgaria gets Albania and Kosovo. Since when were Albanians Bulgarian? And how does Bulgaria get Istanbul/Constantinople and the entire Hellespont (Thrace-Dardanelles-Marmara-Bosporus)?
Independent Cyprus makes NO sense in this context. Why not give it to Greece?
Why Syria? That seems like a very odd name! Why not Arabia?
And since it is obvious that "Palestine" is a Jewish state why not Israel? [Then again, while there may be a justifiable reason for an independent Basque country or Catalonia, seeing as jycee whimsically included midget-Algarve and Andorra where Catalonia would serve its function, perhaps "Palestine" is an independent Arab state included amidst uber-Syria just for the hell of it.] Not to mention, Israel/Palestine looks disproportionately small!
We all understand that you are the resident Ottoman Empire enthusiast!
So I understand your grievances, but in fairness, you seem to have thought that the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire happened overnight, when it seems fairly apparent that the map is of a long-term projection. But I grant that jycee's map is the silliest! The only other map to show an independent Greece was that of Orko, wherein it consists solely of Morea and Crete (probably the Ionian Islands too), more plausible by far! I actually think that Zach's TL gives a very plausible account of Hellenic independence and expansion.NOW, FOR MY MAP...
I have been meaning to do a Napoleonic victory TL for the longest time but never got around to it, partly because when I composed a rather lengthy essay on the subject nearly two years ago some fucking asshole, who shall remain nameless, decided to be a smartass, and an all-around royal dick, to me...
...but mostly because I was short on time. The reception to my essay was positive all around, with some fans and others who provided constructive criticism (disregarding, of course, the aforementioned pompous cock who shall remain nameless).
What follows is a map of the world some decades after Napoleon's triumphant victory (i.e. c. 1860's or 1870's), specifically after the death of Napoleon I and the abdication of Napoleon II. Accordingly, the world as of the map is far from "matured."
The Western Powers: Austria (Empire of Austria-Bohemia-Hungary), Denmark, France, Great Britain, Ottoman Empire, Prussia, Russia, Sweden, United States of America
Powers in-Exile: Kingdom of Portugal (Empire of Brazil), Kingdom of Spain (Viceroyalty of New Spain: Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines/Spanish East Indies)
Other Major Powers: Argentina, China, Colombia, Ethiopian Empire, Japan, Mexico, Persian Empire, Peru (Peruvian-Bolivian Federation), Siam/Thailand
France and the French clients/dependencies/protectorates/satellites/vassals
FRENCH REPUBLIC - Paris
- Barbary Republic - Algiers
- Batavian Republic of the Netherlands - ?
- Republic of Haiti - Port-au-Prince
- Hellenic Republic - Athena
- Iberian Republic - Madrid
- Italian Republic - San Marino
- Kingdom of Madagascar - ?
- Republic of Malta - Valletta
- Grand Duchy of Moldavia - ?
- Kingdom of Poland - Warsaw
- Duchy of Serbia - Belgrade
- Switzerland - Bern [?]
- Grand Duchy of Wallachia - Bucharest
- Sultanate of Zanzibarland - Zanzibar
- Confederation of the Cape - Cape Town
- Afrikaner/Boer Republic
- Sotho Republic
- Swazi Republic
- Xhosa Republic
- Zulu Republic
- Confederation of the Rhine - Frankfurt
- Kingdom of Bavaria
- Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg
- Kingdom of Westphalia
- [...various other German states...]
Note that I do not know enough about Africa, the Caucasus, or Central Asia to realistically map developments. In the case of Africa, I tentatively left native states as they were circa 1812 (at least according to Lord Sander & comrades). By the time indicated by the map (i.e. mid-late 19th century), Africa would probably be more colonized than indicated, but not by that much. The lack of a scramble for Africa slows the land-grabbing process. The only significant Western colonial powers in Africa are Britain and Brazil (Portugal-in-exile), while the French mostly rule indirectly (Barbary Republic, Cape, Madagascar, Swahili Coast, probably some states in the Sahel). Abyssinia/Ethiopia is the main native power in Black Africa. The Confederation of the Cape is a collection of dependent states under French protection roughly corresponding in area, more or less, to OTL South Africa. The dominant groups are the Zulus and the Afrikaners. (The Zulus defeat the British with French assistance and the Boers remain in Cape Colony, so no trek, no Orange Free State or Transvaal...) The Confederation of the Cape eventually evolves into a federation and, assuming colonization of Africa parallels OTL, is the first independent country in sub-Saharan Africa after Ethiopia. (Well except maybe for Zanzibarland or some Sudanic state(s): Darfur? Kordofan? Mali or Songhai state?) Meanwhile, Brazil maintains Portuguese claims to the African colonies of Mozambique and Angola/Portuguese Congo. This could lead to further scrambles in Africa and even a major war with the British.
The lack of a Congress of Vienna means that any remaining European colonies mostly go to the United Kingdom or France (the British have a HUGE head start in this department owing to naval supremacy). For instance, the British would permanently annex the Dutch East Indies and Portuguese Timor. The dismantling of Portugal also means loss of Portuguese colonies on the Indian subcontinent to the British, and probably at least some African colonies of Portugal (Cape Verde?) also go to the British, while remaining Portuguese claims pass to Brazil and the Chinese retake Macao. The Venezuelans might seize the Dutch Antilles while the main chain of the Lesser Antilles remains contested between the British and French.
Please also note that this map is part of a work in progress. For instance, there may be some "anachronisms." (I.e. around the time depicted perhaps the Kingdom of Spain has not yet become the Iberian Republic as the monarchy has not yet been abolished.) I go for the more "conservative" approach, i.e. the Austrian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia, and United Kingdom are left intact, as opposed to a wank in which all those powers are dismembered. Also, I tentatively leave rump Switzerland as is, because I am unsure what happens. (Do the French annex Switzerland entirely, along with Geneva, the Jura, the Rhodanic Republic (all annexed to France IOTL), and Neuchatel (planned/proposed annexation)? Is rump Switzerland (reduced to its Germanic core) annexed to uber-Bayern ("Greater Bavaria") along with Baden, Hohenzollern, Liechtenstein, Wurttemburg, and Wurzburg? Is rump Switzerland placed into the Confederation of the Rhine? Is it divided up between Italy, France, and the German states? Is it left in place? And if so, does it default to the Swiss Confederation or is the Helvetic Republic rebuilt?)
POLARITY & DIPLOMACY
The world is multipolar, with Europe being locally unipolar (France having almost total hegemony with the Austrian Empire as the main counterweight or balance in "Europe proper" i.e. Eurasia west of the Ottoman Empire and the Russian Empire), the USA being the dominant power in North America (though the New World as a whole is multipolar), the Ottoman Turks remaining the primary power over the Middle East, China being the principle hegemon in the Far East, and the British being the primary hegemon in most of the rest of the world. (Or in sum, the top powers are France, the USA, Britain, and China. Russia, Persia, and the Ottoman Empire are "declining powers" while China, the US, and the Latin American nations are "rising powers.")
The world is generally peaceful, comparable to OTL, but for much of the time, there is a Cold War of sorts between Britain and France.
Of course, while the United States of America becomes a superpower, it never becomes the aggressive empire of OTL.
Many non-Western nations are buttressed by the French to act as counters to the British and other Western powers: Abyssinia/Ethiopia, China, Persia, Siam/Thailand, the Hispanic countries. For instance, Persia acts as a buffer against British, Ottoman, and Russian aims on the Middle East and Central Asia, while a large and powerful Ethiopia frustrates British and other colonial ambitions in Africa. Accordingly, you can expect the Chinese, Japanese, Persians, Thais or even the Abyssinians/Ethiopians to "pull a Meiji."
As stated, this is a world in development, somewhat more stable than OTL, but by no means in final form. Some likely developments from this point on: further colonization of Africa; dissolution of the Russian Empire (following a French-style bourgeois revolution) leading to loss of western territories such as Finland, the Ukraine, and the Baltic countries; dissolution of the Hapsburg Empire; Croatian independence (from France, expansion into former Hapsburg territories); unification of Romania; unification of Germany; expansion of Poland (already at maximum Western extent, but to the south-Galicia, to the east-at the expense of Russia, and MAYBE north-"Polish Corridor" or Danzig/Gdansk and West Prussia); Irish independence (or at least Dominion status); Hellenic expansion at the expense of the Ottoman Empire (Greece already has Crete, Cyprus, the Ionian Islands, and most of the Aegean); Serb expansion (at the expense of Ottomans and into former Hapsburg territories); Bulgarian independence; independence of Albania and Bosnia; POSSIBLE American acquisition of Greenland; POSSIBLE dynastic union of Kingdom of Denmark and Kingdom of Sweden (Kalmar Union part deux?); possible emergence of one or more independent Arab state(s) on the Arabian peninsula and/or the Levant (and subsequent dissolution of the Ottoman Empire); probable balkanization of the Persian Empire; some as-of-now unforeseen developments in the Caucasus region; disbanding of the Viceroyalty of New Spain (resulting in the discontinuity of the Spanish Bourbon dynasty) leading to the independence of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines; abdication of the Braganza dynasty, establishing the Republic of Brazil; independence of colonized nations in Africa, India, and Malaya; Australia given dominion status and probably eventually independence; formation of a European Union (much earlier than OTL!)...
Map following...
BONUS IF YOU CAN GUESS THE POD - WHAT HAPPENED AND THE YEAR. [DOUBLE BONUS IF YOU CAN PINPOINT THE EXACT MONTH WHEN THE POD TOOK EFFECT!] ANY QUESTIONS? ASK AWAY!
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yourworstnightmare
Banned
I think a Danish- Swedish Union might be possible, since Nappy would not allow Bernadotte to stay on the throne.
Well the United States still got the Louisiana Purchase but lost a portion to Mexico. France still had a victory, so I would have to say 1805 was the POD.
This is my version of a partially French victory in 1816-1817 after reversal Waterloo and Tolentino. Napoleon managed to retrieve almost all of Germany ( but not to reconquer Spain, which returned under Ferdinand VII), Murat to push away the Austrians to Italy, but the Emperor decided to not overextended more France but to accept only the natural borders and to give more autonomy to Italy ( reunited in a only kingdom under Murat but still client to France), Holland ( where returned Lucien Bonaparte), Switzerland, and Germany, where a new Germanic Confederation risen ( where Hanover was added and Westfalia was the major country). Russia was happy to the gains in Poland, Austria to confirm control of Tyrol, Istria and Dalmatia ( and to let return Marie Louise and Napoleon II in Paris), Britain to absorb all French and Dutch colonies around the world and the Pope to return in Rome ( but Napoleon didn't restablished the temporal power, so no Vatican State).
Imperial France, Royal Italy and Holland, Federate Germany and Switzerland formed a sort of European Union... naturally under French hegemony.
Imperial France, Royal Italy and Holland, Federate Germany and Switzerland formed a sort of European Union... naturally under French hegemony.
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TemporalRenegade said:
Well, when I made this map, I was planning a timeline (which I now have barely started and have not yet updated since the first post...) where Napoleon had a successful Russian Campaign, thanks to different conditions (notably a different Commander-in-chief among the Russians).
The Spanish Question then came on my mind, and it seemed to me Napoleon could have taken it back, even with heavy losses. But even with Continental Spain as a French puppet, I didn't imagine the British accepting Napoleon having the Spanish American Colonies. Thus, I had planned a Congress of Paris (think OTL Congress of Vienna but with a Victorious Napoleon) where the British acknowledge a French puppet Spain but asks for New Spain to become independant and ruled by the Bourbons.
Now that I'm working on the actual timeline, I'm not sure I will follow the same scenario I had on my mind regarding Spain and its colonies, although it roughly is the same currently on my mind...
TemporalRenegade said:
To be honest, I can't really answer you. The map I based myself on was a map of the world in 1812, during Napoleon's Russian Campaign. I only modified European Borders : it seemed to me the world wouldn't have evolved much at the date the map is supposed to be (1816-1817). Call me Lazy if you want, but I already think I'm not much of a mapmaker
But I do think the Jungle Green state is Saudi Arabia. As for Oman and the Swahili coast, I have no clue.
Regarding colors, it's probably a variation of the UCS used by the man who made the 1812 map in the first place.
Interesting! And I thought Kalmar Union 2.0, IF it ever happens, would not come to pass until much later, say somewhat early in the 20th century. But you suggest that it would happen during the reign of Napoleon I, at least a century earlier than I would anticipate such a development.
Not a bad guess, but try a later date! Actually, to be perfectly honest your sense of history seems a bit off, if not somewhat myopic, in regards to the Louisiana Purchase. You see, the original territory of the Louisiana Purchase was defined as the Mississippi-Missouri drainage basin (its eastern boundary being set at the Mississippi River and its western boundary being set at the Continental Divide) but those lands were not yet exploited and settled on a large scale and still largely unknown. Treaties with Great Britain and Spain set the northern boundary of the Louisiana Purchase at the 49th parallel, and the boundary with New Spain along the Sabine River, the Red River, the Arkansas River, and the 42nd parallel; and longitudinal lines due north from the intersection of the 32nd parallel and the Sabine River to the Red River, the 100th meridian west of Greenwich, and due north from the Arkansas headwaters to the 42nd parallel. (The Adams-Onis Treaty Line or "step boundary") Ever hear of a little something called the Adams-Onis Treaty?
The net result of the treaty, if you ignore Florida, slightly favored Spain. (To say that the United States "lost" a portion of the Louisiana Purchase to Spain/Mexico is not entirely correct. This was a border adjustment, not a cession, and, if you ignore Florida, though the United States "gained" territory in some areas (e.g. southwestern Louisiana) and "lost" it in others, the Treaty would have meant a net territorial loss for the United States of America and a net territorial gain for the Spaniards.) Of course, at the Adams-Onis Treaty, Spain relinquished any and all claims to territory in the New World north of the 42nd parallel and also ceded all of the Floridas to the USA, so this was a net gain in territory for the Americans and a net loss for the Kingdom of Spain. The southern/southwestern boundary of the Louisiana Purchase was thus set at the Adams-Onis Treaty Line, or the "Step Boundary" (hence the present eastern and northern boundaries of Texas) and these borders passed to Mexico upon independence, achieved shortly after enactment of the treaty. The USA would never recover areas of the original Louisiana Purchase ceded to New Spain/Mexico (i.e. northerly areas of Texas, the Oklahoma panhandle, Kansas south of the Arkansas River, parts of Colorado, minor areas of Wyoming, possibly parts of New Mexico...) until the Texas annexation.This happened IOTL, btw... A similar treaty would almost certainly have been enacted with the Spaniards ITTL, only it probably would not have favored Spain as much. Chances are such a treaty, enacted shortly before a Mexican revolution, would likely have representatives of both Spanish governments: the Napoleonic puppet kingdom of Spain under Joseph Bonaparte, and the government-in-exile (Bourbon dynasty, probably based in Havana), with both governments seeking to appease the USA, each hoping for recognition of legitimacy. Even assuming that TTL's Step Boundary is virtually identical to that established by OTL's Adams-Onis Treaty, you can expect a much more "natural" boundary that follows the entire length of the Sabine River from the Gulf of Mexico to its headwaters and due north to the Red River, thus ceding Texarkana to the USA. [I lazily copied the Adams-Onis Treaty step boundary from Lord Sander's map without modifying it in this regard.] This would alter the western boundaries of Louisiana and Arkansas, as well as prevent territorial disputes over Texarkana between the USA and New Spain/Mexico/Texas and thus partially butterfly away the annexation of Texas and subsequent Mexican-American War. (Though this has much more to do with the fact that American capture of Canada would lead American expansion NORTH rather than WEST, and the fact that Mexico is much stronger and secure early on than IOTL, and is thus able to secure control of the Central American states of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica in the south, as well as California, Nuevo Mexico, and Tejas, i.e. the present-day states of Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah in the north.)
So guess again! Hint: what were (arguably) Napoleon's two greatest blunders? (With one or the other, if not both, usually being cited as leading to his downfall.)* Either he must have been victorious in both endeavors (unlikely), or avoided both, or managed to avoid one and emerge victorious from the other. (And from the map it looks like he emerged victorious from one of them! Guess which...) Also, note that the French annexed Catalonia, and the Americans managed to possess all of what we now call Canada... how did that happen?
*[Hint, taken together, this action can be compared to the mistake made by the Germans in both World Wars: invading a certain Eastern country and thus creating a two-front war. What if Napoleon could have lured a hostile nation into fighting a two-front war instead?]
@ RyuDrago:
I like it very much! Only, I think the idea of Napoleon Bonaparte winning the Battle of Waterloo and overturning his fate is a bit cliché. Sure, it could happen, but I think the surest way to "win" at Waterloo is to avoid Waterloo altogether. Nevertheless, I like your ideas. But why is Sweden light grey on the map, and how did the Ottoman Turks gain Sardinia?
Well, IOTL, the ruling dynasty of Portugal fled to Brazil during the Peninsular War, governing the mother country remotely from its colony. Something similar must have happened with the ruling house of Spain in your TL, but with the Bourbon dynasty ruling the former Spanish colonies from the Americas. (This happens on a much smaller scale in my TL, with the exiled Bourbons ruling Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Spanish East Indies. New Granada, mainland New Spain, Peru, and Rio de la Plata all acquire independence and the Haitians seize Santo Domingo.) Of course, one might think that in such an event, assuming that (puppet) Spain keeps the colonies, Joseph Bonaparte would rule directly over them, and Napoleon Bonaparte would indirectly rule them, but the British intervene so as to prevent this. I still think that the most obvious, realistic, and probable outcome would be for independence of Spanish colonies on the North and South American continents!
After all, both the American Revolution and the French Revolution inspired the revolutions in Latin America, but the Peninsular War was the catalyst for the independence of New Spain (Mexico, Central America), New Granada (Gran Colombia), Rio de la Plata (Paraguay, Argentina), and less directly for Brazil. (When the Braganzas governed Portugal from Brazil, this gave them a "taste" of independence, which became a reality once the Braganza emperor abdicated from Brazil, making it a republic and officially independent of Portugal.) As much as Latin American revolutionaries may have appreciated the French Revolution, I do not think they would particularly enjoy having Frenchmen for overlords. IOTL, they used the events as a pretext for independence and I do not understand why it would be different in your TL...
Oh, and btw Yorel, I would not call you lazy at all! I could tell that you mostly modified European borders but left others unaltered, but nothing wrong with that!
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I think a better question is, how stable would a Napoleonic setup be?
As pointed out previously, a France that directly annexes large populations of Dutch, Germans, Italians, and Slavs isn't going to be able to integrate them, and they're likely not going to be very happy under French rule. Puppetized Spain and puppetized Germany aren't going to want to stay puppets if they can help it. And, none of the other European powers-Austria, Prussia, Russia-have any real reason to want the Napoleonic system to continue long-term.
So, even if Napoleon were to deliver a decisive defeat to Britain, he'd still, IMHO, wind up having to go to war every few years to smack down some kind of rebellion against his rule. How long can France remain mobilized? How long can it maintain massive armies ready to march across Europe, before all the non-military aspects of society are going to come under strain?
And, how long will France keep winning? As history showed, Napoleon only needed to loose one campaign to set his empire on the road to collapse. How well will Napoleon's successors handle all of these challenges?
In my opinion, even in a best-case scenario, the Napoleonic setup is going to have 20-30 years at most. After that, its going to have to either start making concessions to all the non-French nationalities of Europe, or (more likely) it will, like OTL, be rather violently and forcefully undone.
As pointed out previously, a France that directly annexes large populations of Dutch, Germans, Italians, and Slavs isn't going to be able to integrate them, and they're likely not going to be very happy under French rule. Puppetized Spain and puppetized Germany aren't going to want to stay puppets if they can help it. And, none of the other European powers-Austria, Prussia, Russia-have any real reason to want the Napoleonic system to continue long-term.
So, even if Napoleon were to deliver a decisive defeat to Britain, he'd still, IMHO, wind up having to go to war every few years to smack down some kind of rebellion against his rule. How long can France remain mobilized? How long can it maintain massive armies ready to march across Europe, before all the non-military aspects of society are going to come under strain?
And, how long will France keep winning? As history showed, Napoleon only needed to loose one campaign to set his empire on the road to collapse. How well will Napoleon's successors handle all of these challenges?
In my opinion, even in a best-case scenario, the Napoleonic setup is going to have 20-30 years at most. After that, its going to have to either start making concessions to all the non-French nationalities of Europe, or (more likely) it will, like OTL, be rather violently and forcefully undone.
You're clearly out of the loop. Iori's version of the UCS (as he is de jure leader of the UCS these days) has countries without overseas territory as grey. As for Sardinia, that's a very different shade of green.
I think in a Napoleonic victory Philippines will be partitioned because there is a rebellion that is occuring at that time namely the Dagohoy rebellion which was hard to stop and took decades to defeat and since Spain is busy fighting Napoleon I think the Philippines is up for grabs for France and Britain to partition.
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Yes, it will be a clichè idea, but all of you proposed versions of total victory from alternative 1813. I only proposed a variation of the theme from 1815.
For the color question, i used a 1815 map from the apposite thread i modified partially. It was the previous author to keep Sweden in grey, and it is not Ottoman Sardinia but indipendent Kingdom of Sardinia, which in some maps used that kind of green.
alternate germanies
attached... not a napoleonic victory per se... but something i've toyed with for a while... Its a bonapartist France negotiated settlement.
Joseph is emperor
there is a different King of Spain, that has been more neutral or only nominally allied to France during different coalitions. Napoleon pushed for a more punishing peace with regard to Prussia during the 4th coalition because of Spain's wary neutrality upto that point from 1800 onward. The Tsar would not agree. resulting in further conflict that eventually did still result in French victory but Napoleon's death and Joseph's ascension as emperor. There is also a wary rapprochement between this alternate France and the Austrian Hapsburgs.
Gustaf III also survived his assassination and ruled in Sweden until 1809. His influence and the need for the Russian alliance forced Gustav IV to accept special privilege regarding religion for Alexandra Pavlovna 1796. There is only 1 surviving child of the marriage. Alexandrine Sophia Katherine Marie. Alexandra Pavlovna having died in childbirth during her second pregnancy 1799.
I haven't decided on who the second marriage will be to but lean towards Princess Mary of Hanover. I'm not sure who Gustaf III would favour at this point, but then again Gustaf IV having given in once for matters of state, will probably want to have more input this time around. Frederica of Baden is out as she's married to the Duke of Mecklenburg-Scherwin at this point
Austria I'm not sure whether they should be in the bund or not...but given that Italy has remained under French influence in the north its probably given that they should be. Eugene Beauharnais is King of Italy.
Poland which has survived in Personal union under the Frederick August has been given male preference primogeniture succession. the union will end with his death. Maria Augusta is Crown Princess and heir to the throne of Poland. Extent of Poland yet to be determined, as I am of two minds regarding events Russia. I figure she should probably be married to a Hapsburg or a Romanov, the former being more likely.
attached... not a napoleonic victory per se... but something i've toyed with for a while... Its a bonapartist France negotiated settlement.
Joseph is emperor
there is a different King of Spain, that has been more neutral or only nominally allied to France during different coalitions. Napoleon pushed for a more punishing peace with regard to Prussia during the 4th coalition because of Spain's wary neutrality upto that point from 1800 onward. The Tsar would not agree. resulting in further conflict that eventually did still result in French victory but Napoleon's death and Joseph's ascension as emperor. There is also a wary rapprochement between this alternate France and the Austrian Hapsburgs.
Gustaf III also survived his assassination and ruled in Sweden until 1809. His influence and the need for the Russian alliance forced Gustav IV to accept special privilege regarding religion for Alexandra Pavlovna 1796. There is only 1 surviving child of the marriage. Alexandrine Sophia Katherine Marie. Alexandra Pavlovna having died in childbirth during her second pregnancy 1799.
I haven't decided on who the second marriage will be to but lean towards Princess Mary of Hanover. I'm not sure who Gustaf III would favour at this point, but then again Gustaf IV having given in once for matters of state, will probably want to have more input this time around. Frederica of Baden is out as she's married to the Duke of Mecklenburg-Scherwin at this point
Austria I'm not sure whether they should be in the bund or not...but given that Italy has remained under French influence in the north its probably given that they should be. Eugene Beauharnais is King of Italy.
Poland which has survived in Personal union under the Frederick August has been given male preference primogeniture succession. the union will end with his death. Maria Augusta is Crown Princess and heir to the throne of Poland. Extent of Poland yet to be determined, as I am of two minds regarding events Russia. I figure she should probably be married to a Hapsburg or a Romanov, the former being more likely.
So, here's the sequel of my previous map, this time around 1850.
Essentially, Prussia, Austria, and Austria failed to conserve the balance in Europe. In 1830, Spain returned under French control; in 1848, the monarchy in Prussia fell permitting to the German Federation to invade the country; Russia and Austria intervened but without Britain (which remained neutral) failed miserably, making so to return to the 1813 borders for the French block, freeing also Poland. However, the French Empire annexed in that period only Catalonia and bought from Spain Puerto Rico, the colonies in the Cameron Bay area, and the island of Mindanao ( in order to counterbalance the British power in these areas), while relinquished to Holland pre-1783 borders. Italy under the Murat Dynasty meanwhile occupied Sardinia and Sicily, and in the war towards Austria also Dalmatia, Trantin and Istria. Germany annexed South Tirol and the lands West of the Oder ( all of Prussia East of the river went to Poland).
Britain then searched alliance with USA, ceding all of the Oregon territory.
Greece and Portugal also seeked protection from the British Empire.
Essentially, Prussia, Austria, and Austria failed to conserve the balance in Europe. In 1830, Spain returned under French control; in 1848, the monarchy in Prussia fell permitting to the German Federation to invade the country; Russia and Austria intervened but without Britain (which remained neutral) failed miserably, making so to return to the 1813 borders for the French block, freeing also Poland. However, the French Empire annexed in that period only Catalonia and bought from Spain Puerto Rico, the colonies in the Cameron Bay area, and the island of Mindanao ( in order to counterbalance the British power in these areas), while relinquished to Holland pre-1783 borders. Italy under the Murat Dynasty meanwhile occupied Sardinia and Sicily, and in the war towards Austria also Dalmatia, Trantin and Istria. Germany annexed South Tirol and the lands West of the Oder ( all of Prussia East of the river went to Poland).
Britain then searched alliance with USA, ceding all of the Oregon territory.
Greece and Portugal also seeked protection from the British Empire.
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