Okay the rules are simple. Come up with an alternate civil war battle either based on actual battles (like gettysburg, chancellorsville, shiloh, etc.) or you can make a new one (like instead of Van Dorn attacking Curtis at Pea Ridge, Van Dorn decideds to invade Missouri to draw him out?). Tell what the POD is and why it happened and what results in the Pod begining carried out(like what effect on the war and such). I'm going to let you all get the ball running.
Alternate Battles of the Civil War
- Thread starter Valus36
- Start date
Okay, here's something simple to get going with (comments appreciated if anyone wants to explore this).
First Bull Run:
POD: Johnston fails to reinforce Beauregard.
Consequences: Beauregard's flank rolled up. Union win.
Longer term consequences: ? Depends on how well the Union does. But a big victory here will seriously hurt the Confederacy - Richmond falls in 1861?
No McClellan in charge of the Army of the Potomac* for sure.
First Bull Run:
POD: Johnston fails to reinforce Beauregard.
Consequences: Beauregard's flank rolled up. Union win.
Longer term consequences: ? Depends on how well the Union does. But a big victory here will seriously hurt the Confederacy - Richmond falls in 1861?
No McClellan in charge of the Army of the Potomac* for sure.
Wilson's Creek:
POD:
Lyon does not listen to Sigel and decideds to attack with his entire force at dawn as planned.
Result:
Lyon's Army of the West narrowly wins a victory and drives back the rebels before they can coordinate an effective counterattack. The win boosts federal morale throughout the nation and Lyon becomes a hero. Lincoln, seeing that Lyon is man he needs to hold Missouri, promoted him to Maj Gen.
Lyon goes on to become, besides Grant, Sherman, and others, a high ranking General who helps secure Arkansas for the north by mid 1862, He then goes on to serve in 1863 with Grant before Vicksburg and latter would command the Red River campaign that would result in the taking of the rest of Louisiana and parts of Texas. By Late 1864 he would be recalled to take command in Nashville when John Bell Hood invades in November. Defeating Hood at the decisive battle of Franklin, Tn, Lyon would pursue Hood untill he surrenders in Northern Alabama. The final months of the war would see Lyon blazing a trail into the heart of Alabama and latter parts of Georgia that was still under rebel control.
After the war, he would retire from the army and settle in Missouri where he would latter be nominated for the Presidency in 1870, winning it.
POD:
Lyon does not listen to Sigel and decideds to attack with his entire force at dawn as planned.
Result:
Lyon's Army of the West narrowly wins a victory and drives back the rebels before they can coordinate an effective counterattack. The win boosts federal morale throughout the nation and Lyon becomes a hero. Lincoln, seeing that Lyon is man he needs to hold Missouri, promoted him to Maj Gen.
Lyon goes on to become, besides Grant, Sherman, and others, a high ranking General who helps secure Arkansas for the north by mid 1862, He then goes on to serve in 1863 with Grant before Vicksburg and latter would command the Red River campaign that would result in the taking of the rest of Louisiana and parts of Texas. By Late 1864 he would be recalled to take command in Nashville when John Bell Hood invades in November. Defeating Hood at the decisive battle of Franklin, Tn, Lyon would pursue Hood untill he surrenders in Northern Alabama. The final months of the war would see Lyon blazing a trail into the heart of Alabama and latter parts of Georgia that was still under rebel control.
After the war, he would retire from the army and settle in Missouri where he would latter be nominated for the Presidency in 1870, winning it.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Battle of Corinth: April 10-12th.
Following his victories at Forts Henry and Donelson, General Ulysses S. Grant made plans to attack the city of Corinth. Due to a sequence of communication misfires between both Grant and Halleck and between AS Johnston and Jefferson Davis, the Confederates gathered an army at Corinth, but too late to prevent General Halleck from leading one of the first large battles of the war pitting what in modern terms is called an army group against other armies.
Due to Halleck's skill in co-ordination and Union intrenchments, the Union army won a decisive defensive victory, though it is now recognized that failure to capture the army was not due to General Buell, but due to General Halleck. General Grant in his Memoirs credited this battle with helping to shape the philosophy that led him to oversee the US Army to victory against the Confederates.
For the Confederacy, the death of Albert Sidney Johnston and the disastrous handling of this battle by General Van Dorn proved a mixed result, the death of Johnston a morale blow, the removal of Van Dorn from active field command arguably helping Confederate military power in the long term.
Following his victories at Forts Henry and Donelson, General Ulysses S. Grant made plans to attack the city of Corinth. Due to a sequence of communication misfires between both Grant and Halleck and between AS Johnston and Jefferson Davis, the Confederates gathered an army at Corinth, but too late to prevent General Halleck from leading one of the first large battles of the war pitting what in modern terms is called an army group against other armies.
Due to Halleck's skill in co-ordination and Union intrenchments, the Union army won a decisive defensive victory, though it is now recognized that failure to capture the army was not due to General Buell, but due to General Halleck. General Grant in his Memoirs credited this battle with helping to shape the philosophy that led him to oversee the US Army to victory against the Confederates.
For the Confederacy, the death of Albert Sidney Johnston and the disastrous handling of this battle by General Van Dorn proved a mixed result, the death of Johnston a morale blow, the removal of Van Dorn from active field command arguably helping Confederate military power in the long term.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Battle of the Wilderness: May 5-6, 1864
POD: Longstreet not wounded by friendly fire on May 6
Consequences: The Confederate counter attack on the right achieves more success than it did IOTL, bringing the Brock Road under Confederate control by nightfall. Additionally, Union casualties and prisoners were higher than IOTL.
With the Brock Road under Confederate control, Grant cannot march southeast towards Spotsylvania Courthouse around Lee's right. Consequently, being unwilling to withdraw north of the Rapidan until he has no other choice, Grant launches a full-scale assault on the Confederates, who are now dug in to formidable earthworks. The Union forces are bloodily repulsed, suffering heavy losses while inflicting relatively few.
Boxed in with his back to the river, and his army severely mauled, Grant now has no choice but to withdraw across the Rapidan, adding his name to the list of Union generals beaten by Robert E. Lee.
POD: Longstreet not wounded by friendly fire on May 6
Consequences: The Confederate counter attack on the right achieves more success than it did IOTL, bringing the Brock Road under Confederate control by nightfall. Additionally, Union casualties and prisoners were higher than IOTL.
With the Brock Road under Confederate control, Grant cannot march southeast towards Spotsylvania Courthouse around Lee's right. Consequently, being unwilling to withdraw north of the Rapidan until he has no other choice, Grant launches a full-scale assault on the Confederates, who are now dug in to formidable earthworks. The Union forces are bloodily repulsed, suffering heavy losses while inflicting relatively few.
Boxed in with his back to the river, and his army severely mauled, Grant now has no choice but to withdraw across the Rapidan, adding his name to the list of Union generals beaten by Robert E. Lee.
Snake Featherston
Banned
One other alternate battle:
Battle of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, October 1862:
In one of the more unusual Civil War campaigns, General Lee began with a masterful stroke whereby he divided the Confederate army into five parts, intending for three of them to seize Harper's Ferry and secure his southern flank, while two pushed toward the north. The plan was executed and by the time the Army of the Potomac began to move after Lee, it encountered him near Harrisburg. Lee had intended to cross the Susquehanna and intrench near Philadelphia, to force McClellan to attack him.
Instead in a battle planned by neither side, the Corps of Fitz-John Porter encountered the Confederate soldiers of A.P. Hill south of the town. In a three day tactically inconclusive battle, the Army of the Potomac won a strategic victory against the Army of Northern Virginia, where a poorly-executed series of piecemeal attacks against General Lee failed to break the Army of the Potomac's defensive lines, where entrenched lines of troops equipped with rifles repeatedly halted the Confederate attacks with minimal losses in a two-day battle.
Lee's successful retreat over the Potomac led to McClellan being cashiered, as he claimed through the entirety of the battle that Lee heavily outnumbered him, where in reality it is considered that a more vigorous prosecution of the battle could have turned Lee's gambit for a decisive victory on Northern soil instead into a decisive *Union* victory and destruction of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Instead the war would continue for a few more years and Harrisburg would become a key part of the Lost Cause legend.....
Battle of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, October 1862:
In one of the more unusual Civil War campaigns, General Lee began with a masterful stroke whereby he divided the Confederate army into five parts, intending for three of them to seize Harper's Ferry and secure his southern flank, while two pushed toward the north. The plan was executed and by the time the Army of the Potomac began to move after Lee, it encountered him near Harrisburg. Lee had intended to cross the Susquehanna and intrench near Philadelphia, to force McClellan to attack him.
Instead in a battle planned by neither side, the Corps of Fitz-John Porter encountered the Confederate soldiers of A.P. Hill south of the town. In a three day tactically inconclusive battle, the Army of the Potomac won a strategic victory against the Army of Northern Virginia, where a poorly-executed series of piecemeal attacks against General Lee failed to break the Army of the Potomac's defensive lines, where entrenched lines of troops equipped with rifles repeatedly halted the Confederate attacks with minimal losses in a two-day battle.
Lee's successful retreat over the Potomac led to McClellan being cashiered, as he claimed through the entirety of the battle that Lee heavily outnumbered him, where in reality it is considered that a more vigorous prosecution of the battle could have turned Lee's gambit for a decisive victory on Northern soil instead into a decisive *Union* victory and destruction of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Instead the war would continue for a few more years and Harrisburg would become a key part of the Lost Cause legend.....
Battle of Hampton Roads: March 9th, 1862
POD: USS Monitor is authorized to use full 30lb powder charges in her 11-inch Dahlgrens instead of being restricted to 15lb half-charges.
Dawn of the 9th found Merrimac moored off Sewell's Point beneath the batteries there while Monitor was anchored near the grounded USS Minnesota. The Confederate ironclad's wounded, including Captain Buchanan, had already been put ashore. Buchanan's second-in-command, Lt. Catesby ap Roger Jones, was determined to use the ironclad just as aggressively as it had been the day before and gave orders to steam directly for Minnesota to complete the destruction of the Federal blockading squadron.
Once Confederate ironclad's course was determined, Monitor placed herself between Merrimac and Minnesota to defend the grounded screw frigate. Jones initially misidentified Monitor as a raft transporting Minnesota's boiler but, after realizing the long rumored Union ironclad was present, fired his bow gun at her. That shot missed, hitting Minnesota instead who responded with a full, and ineffectual, broadside. The second day of the Battle of Hampton Roads had begun.
Monitor's commander, Lt. Worden, had reviewed reports of the previous day's action and decided on engaging Merrimac as closely as possible. He took his ship as close to the slower Confederate ironclad as he dared and sent orders to Lt. Greene in the turret to open fire. Monitor's turret revolved, her gun port shutters swung open, and her two 11-inch smoothbores fired in turn.
The first shot pierced Merrimac's casemate dismounting two guns while killing or wounding most of their crews. The second tore open Merrimac's pilot house killing Lt. Jones, the helmsman, and another crewman. Merrimac, now out of control, left the channel and grounded herself.
Monitor slowly circled her grounded opponent while her turret crew feverishly reloaded her guns. Worden informed Greene of Merrimac's plight and slowed Monitor crawl along the Confederate's damaged quarter. Taking his time, Green fired his Dahlgrens again piercing Merrimac's casemate twice causing further casualties and carrying away a steam pipe. As steam from Merrimac's boilers filled her casemate scalding and blinding her crew, Monitor withdrew to reload.
When Worden brought his vessel back to fire, he saw Merrimac's crew leaping from her gunports and running along her deck and casemate top. Many were waving frantically at the approaching Union ironclad while other were jumping into the water or trying to draw up the boats Merrimac had been towing. Before Worden could get word to Monitor's turret, Greene fired once again. Both rounds smashed into Merrimac's weakly armored waterline killing and wounding additional Confederate sailors.
After a confused quarter hour during which the two small CSA gunboats accompanying Merrimac steamed back to Norfolk, Worden and a party of armed sailors on Monitor's flat armored deck eventually took the surrender of CSS Merrimac from her surviving senior officer. The crew from the defeated ironclad was gathered on Monitor's aft deck under the baleful gaze of the turret's two gunports and then removed by tugboat first to USS Minnesota and then the Union forts in the area. The ironclad herself was tugged off the flat where she was grounded and towed to Fortress Monroe by nightfall.
OOC: Monitor was limited to 15lb half-charges during the OTL, but the later encounter between CSS Atlanta and USS Weehawken suggests what might have happened in 30lb charges had been allowed. Weehawken defeated and captured Atlanta with all of five shots. One of Weehawken's guns was an 11-inch Dahlgren like Monitor's and Atlanta armor was not only the same thickness as Merrimac's but of a better quality too.
POD: USS Monitor is authorized to use full 30lb powder charges in her 11-inch Dahlgrens instead of being restricted to 15lb half-charges.
Dawn of the 9th found Merrimac moored off Sewell's Point beneath the batteries there while Monitor was anchored near the grounded USS Minnesota. The Confederate ironclad's wounded, including Captain Buchanan, had already been put ashore. Buchanan's second-in-command, Lt. Catesby ap Roger Jones, was determined to use the ironclad just as aggressively as it had been the day before and gave orders to steam directly for Minnesota to complete the destruction of the Federal blockading squadron.
Once Confederate ironclad's course was determined, Monitor placed herself between Merrimac and Minnesota to defend the grounded screw frigate. Jones initially misidentified Monitor as a raft transporting Minnesota's boiler but, after realizing the long rumored Union ironclad was present, fired his bow gun at her. That shot missed, hitting Minnesota instead who responded with a full, and ineffectual, broadside. The second day of the Battle of Hampton Roads had begun.
Monitor's commander, Lt. Worden, had reviewed reports of the previous day's action and decided on engaging Merrimac as closely as possible. He took his ship as close to the slower Confederate ironclad as he dared and sent orders to Lt. Greene in the turret to open fire. Monitor's turret revolved, her gun port shutters swung open, and her two 11-inch smoothbores fired in turn.
The first shot pierced Merrimac's casemate dismounting two guns while killing or wounding most of their crews. The second tore open Merrimac's pilot house killing Lt. Jones, the helmsman, and another crewman. Merrimac, now out of control, left the channel and grounded herself.
Monitor slowly circled her grounded opponent while her turret crew feverishly reloaded her guns. Worden informed Greene of Merrimac's plight and slowed Monitor crawl along the Confederate's damaged quarter. Taking his time, Green fired his Dahlgrens again piercing Merrimac's casemate twice causing further casualties and carrying away a steam pipe. As steam from Merrimac's boilers filled her casemate scalding and blinding her crew, Monitor withdrew to reload.
When Worden brought his vessel back to fire, he saw Merrimac's crew leaping from her gunports and running along her deck and casemate top. Many were waving frantically at the approaching Union ironclad while other were jumping into the water or trying to draw up the boats Merrimac had been towing. Before Worden could get word to Monitor's turret, Greene fired once again. Both rounds smashed into Merrimac's weakly armored waterline killing and wounding additional Confederate sailors.
After a confused quarter hour during which the two small CSA gunboats accompanying Merrimac steamed back to Norfolk, Worden and a party of armed sailors on Monitor's flat armored deck eventually took the surrender of CSS Merrimac from her surviving senior officer. The crew from the defeated ironclad was gathered on Monitor's aft deck under the baleful gaze of the turret's two gunports and then removed by tugboat first to USS Minnesota and then the Union forts in the area. The ironclad herself was tugged off the flat where she was grounded and towed to Fortress Monroe by nightfall.
OOC: Monitor was limited to 15lb half-charges during the OTL, but the later encounter between CSS Atlanta and USS Weehawken suggests what might have happened in 30lb charges had been allowed. Weehawken defeated and captured Atlanta with all of five shots. One of Weehawken's guns was an 11-inch Dahlgren like Monitor's and Atlanta armor was not only the same thickness as Merrimac's but of a better quality too.
67th Tigers
Banned
Several factual corrections.
15 lb was the "full charge" for the 11" Dahlgren. There was no "half charge" authorised. There was no 30 lb charge in existence then or ever, the USN never approved the load (but did later approve a 20 lb charge). Experiments showed that 30 lbs of No. 7 powder would weaken and burst the gun very quickly, and the British acquired an 11" Dahlgren and tried 30 lbs of powder behind a chilled iron (armour piercing) shot. It failed to produce any effect against the Warrior target, even at 30 yds.
In the Atlanta vs Weehaken encounter the 11" charged with *15 lbs* failed to dent Atlanta's armour. The 15" cored shot charged with 35 lbs (the "far or battering" charge) did not achieve full penetration either. Of the three 15" fired one was stopped by the armour (weaker than Virginia's) but dislodged the backing, causing splintering, another hit the top of the pilothouse and dislodged it, whilst the third missed (at 100 yds against a stationary target). Atlanta struck because she was stuck on a sandbar and couldn't bring her guns to bear, making resistance pointless.
If Monitor had loaded 30 lb loads then one of the guns would have burst rather quickly, effectively destroying Monitor and leading to a CS victory.
You are mistaken.
there were test held after the Battle that showed the 11" could operate safely and effectively with 30 lb loads.
67th Tigers
Banned
I'm not mistaken and I know the tests. You're referring to a freak result that occurred when an 11" cored wrought iron shot was fired with a 30 lb charge of no. 7 powder at "Target No. 6" at a range of 83 feet. It partially penetrated. Notably, target no. 6 was a weaker target than Virginia (4x 1" wrought iron laminated plates and 1x 0.5" of the same on 20" of oak at the normal vs 2x 2" wrought iron laminated plates on 24" of wood at 45 degrees - Virginia's armour resists approximately 3 times that of target no. 6).
No 11" Dahlgren gun ever penetrated an ironclad. Ever.
Yes, you seem to be spot on. Here is link regarding the famous ironclad battle.
See page seven for the pertinent information.
Benjamin
P.S. I'll have an alternate battle up soon.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Battle of Hanover, October 1862
PoD: The Lost Orders are not lost
Prior to the Battle: Following his victory in the Northern Virginia Campaign, Lee moved north with 55,000 men through the Shenandoah Valley starting on September 4, 1862. His objective was to resupply his army outside of the war-torn Virginia theater and to damage Northern morale in anticipation of the November elections. He undertook the risky maneuver of splitting his army so that he could continue north into Maryland while simultaneously capturing the Federal garrison and arsenal at Harpers Ferry.
While Stonewall Jackson surrounded, bombarded, and captured Harpers Ferry (September 12–15), McClellan hesitated, unable to get reliable intelligence, failing to intercept Lee's remaining army before he had crossed the Susquehanna; further delays allowed Lee army's to reunite in Pennsylvania, then capture Harrisburg.
By the time the Army of the Potomac and the Army of Norther Virginia met decisively in battle, Lee had already begun to move towards Baltimore. Seeking to chose a battlefield where he could secure favorable ground, Lee moved West, and secured the hills at Gettysburg.
The Battle: The ferocity of the battle caught Lee somewhat off guard, as he had come to believe the Army of the Potomac had been thoroughly demoralized in the last campaign -- but, in fact, had been significantly reinvigorated by the return of McClellan.
Three days of fighting -- the tide turned several times back and forth in the course of the greatest battle of the war, and while the Union losses were greater, the ANV took heavy losses that brought them to the brink of defeat. Only with the battle death of Gen. George McClellan was the AP finally defeated, and even then they managed to hold together.
Aftermath: Though still technically a force, the Army of the Potomac was the army that retreated first, giving Lee a choice -- pursue the bluecoats and finish the army in the area, or move on to Baltimore. After finding himself so mistaken about the spirit of his enemy, at the cost of so many of his men, the General decided to allow the opposing to force to regroup if only so that he could regroup his own.
But he did not stop -- he continued to move his army south, until they had reached Baltimore. As planned, the Confederate sympathizers of the city used the opportunity to take over, and a new government was proclaimed in Maryland, a member of the CSA. This would lead Maryland, along with Kentucky, to remain the key battleground for the war. As it happened, Lee's victory at Hanover also meant the Confederate army in Kentucky received a boost of morale needed to keep fighting after Perryville.
Lee's victories in Maryland and Pennsylvania also gave a boost in Britain to Prime Minister Palmerson's government, who now saw a clear opportunity to recognize the CSA, and seek to negotiate a truce the remaining US; France soon followed in these measures.
The war was not over; but the Battle of Hanover proved a key turning point in the war, paving the way for the eventual victory of the Confederate States of America.
-----
I think Snake used this PoD, but I thought it could turn out different
PoD: The Lost Orders are not lost
Prior to the Battle: Following his victory in the Northern Virginia Campaign, Lee moved north with 55,000 men through the Shenandoah Valley starting on September 4, 1862. His objective was to resupply his army outside of the war-torn Virginia theater and to damage Northern morale in anticipation of the November elections. He undertook the risky maneuver of splitting his army so that he could continue north into Maryland while simultaneously capturing the Federal garrison and arsenal at Harpers Ferry.
While Stonewall Jackson surrounded, bombarded, and captured Harpers Ferry (September 12–15), McClellan hesitated, unable to get reliable intelligence, failing to intercept Lee's remaining army before he had crossed the Susquehanna; further delays allowed Lee army's to reunite in Pennsylvania, then capture Harrisburg.
By the time the Army of the Potomac and the Army of Norther Virginia met decisively in battle, Lee had already begun to move towards Baltimore. Seeking to chose a battlefield where he could secure favorable ground, Lee moved West, and secured the hills at Gettysburg.
The Battle: The ferocity of the battle caught Lee somewhat off guard, as he had come to believe the Army of the Potomac had been thoroughly demoralized in the last campaign -- but, in fact, had been significantly reinvigorated by the return of McClellan.
Three days of fighting -- the tide turned several times back and forth in the course of the greatest battle of the war, and while the Union losses were greater, the ANV took heavy losses that brought them to the brink of defeat. Only with the battle death of Gen. George McClellan was the AP finally defeated, and even then they managed to hold together.
Aftermath: Though still technically a force, the Army of the Potomac was the army that retreated first, giving Lee a choice -- pursue the bluecoats and finish the army in the area, or move on to Baltimore. After finding himself so mistaken about the spirit of his enemy, at the cost of so many of his men, the General decided to allow the opposing to force to regroup if only so that he could regroup his own.
But he did not stop -- he continued to move his army south, until they had reached Baltimore. As planned, the Confederate sympathizers of the city used the opportunity to take over, and a new government was proclaimed in Maryland, a member of the CSA. This would lead Maryland, along with Kentucky, to remain the key battleground for the war. As it happened, Lee's victory at Hanover also meant the Confederate army in Kentucky received a boost of morale needed to keep fighting after Perryville.
Lee's victories in Maryland and Pennsylvania also gave a boost in Britain to Prime Minister Palmerson's government, who now saw a clear opportunity to recognize the CSA, and seek to negotiate a truce the remaining US; France soon followed in these measures.
The war was not over; but the Battle of Hanover proved a key turning point in the war, paving the way for the eventual victory of the Confederate States of America.
-----
I think Snake used this PoD, but I thought it could turn out different
67th Tigers
Banned
Yeah, check your references reference. It's absolutely full of mistakes.
Incidently, Ericsson never insisted on 30 lb charges. He insisted they load *shell* and fire at the waterline! Anyone claiming such a thing needs to produce primary evidence.
The myth that Monitors guns weren't proofed is an odd one. Her guns were serials 27 and 28, made in 1859 and initially issued to USS Dacotah. They had been in fleet service nearly 3 years by the time of Hampton Roads. They were proofed upto 25 lbs of no. 7 powder, like all 11" shell guns in USN service. Even the 1866 instructions show the 11" still only being proofed with 25 lbs charges.
In 1862 the full charge was 15 lbs (ref). In 1864 a 20 lb "distant charge" was authorised and appears in the manuals (ref). In 1866 still only ordinary (15 lb) and distant (20 lb) charges are authorised (ref). There is no record of any US warship ever putting 30 lbs into a 11" Dahlgren gun.
(OTOH the 15" guns certainly did fire 50 lb charges of no. 7 powder, although they were much stronger pieces, being manufactured by a different process).
However, you can rescue the PoD easily enough thusly:
Monitor was carrying 10 wrought iron (armour piercing) rounds. They were ridiculously expensive. She did not use them for fear of damaging the guns, and in fact offloaded them after the battle to remove the temptation to fire them. Dahlgren agreed that they would be too damaging (ref). Now they *would* have strained the guns more (but not as much as a 30 lb charge), but may have done better damage. That may have prevented Virginia defeating Monitor (she was rendered unfightable and ran for the cover of Ft Monroe's guns in the OTL encounter (ref).
As I'm not a naval affairs expert I'll defer this argument to others who are better informed. You may very well be correct. I certainly agree that using wrought iron AP shells would have been very interesting.
Benjamin
The Battles of Abbottstown and Leon (July 1-3, 1863)
POD: Juarez and most of his cabinet are jailed by the Guadalajara garrison under pro-Conservative Colonel Landa. Juarez will spend the next twenty months in captivity before escaping to Tampico and fleeing to the US. After spending six months in New York City raising money, during which he met Lincoln at Cooper Union, Juarez returned to Mexico to rally the beleaguered Liberals.
Prior to the Battle: Aided by American funds and advisors including Generals Kearny and Meade, Juarez was able to raise a respectable force to face the Spanish and French backed Conservatives. An explosion of the Spanish warship Berenguela in New York harbor precipitated a crisis that would lead both Spain and France to declare war on the United States in early 1861, just a month after the lower South seceded. Only British aid following Spain's boarding of the British packet ship Trent kept the Union in the war during the early months of the conflict.
The formal Mexican (Liberal) - American alliance was signed on January 1, 1862 and Meade and Kearny returned to Mexico with a small expeditionary force. As the war progressed and the Union Navy grew stronger France looked for a way to bring the costly affair to a victorious finale. France landed an army of 25,000 under Bazaine at Charleston after New Orleans fell to attack led by Gen. Lyons. At the same time a Spanish contingent arrived in Mexico led by Gen. Juan Prim. It was decided by Lee, Bazaine and Prim that simultaneous offensives against the Union and the Liberals could bring the war to a quick end.
The Battles: The Lee/Bazaine offensive swept past Washington, which had fallen to the Confederates months prior, and into northern Pennsylvania. They were slowed by the valiant efforts of the Pennsylvanian and New York militia led by PA native John Reynolds. This allowed the Army of the Susquehanna under Halleck to concentrate just south of Abbottstown. July 1 saw a Union assault fail bloodily while July 2 saw a Confederate/French attack do likewise. After a day of skirmishing and minor attacks the Union once again launched an attack in the early hours of July 4. The French/Confederate lines held until the remnants of the militia army struck the French/confederates from the rear causing panic. Bazaine would die in the confusion while Lee was able to extradite the remains of the vaunted Army of Northern Virginia.
In Mexico Miramon personally led the Mexican contingent while Prim led the 15,000 Spanish, Austrian and Belgian soldiers. The Treaty giving Maximilian the Mexican crown had been signed just a month prior and Prim hoped to return to Spain a hero. Meade, Kearny and Mexican General Mariano Escobedo devised a plan to lure the Conservative Army into the rough terrain north of Leon. As fate would have it this battle also began on July 1st and over the next two days Meade's stubborn defense prevented the Mexicans from breaking the line while Escobedo launched a series of attacks on the Conservative flanks. This distracted the Conservative Army long enough that Kearny was able to sneak his smaller force of irregulars and cavalry among the supply train of the Spanish and Conservative forces. Prim realizing that he risked being caught in trap refused to support Miramon's final assault and instead withdrew towards Mexico City. Miramon's army was routed and he was captured.
Aftermath: Lee would die less than a month after the loss at Abbottstown due to the dual strains of a weak heart and pneumonia. Leadership of the Army of Northern Virginia would fall to Gen. Thomas Jackson. Jackson's vicious "black flag, no prisoners" way of warfare would shock the North and even the Confederacy's French allies. When news of the defeat reached Spain a Liberal revolt overthrew Isabella II, and Spain withdrew from the war in late October. The United States would gain Puerto Rico, Guam and basing rights in the Philippines and Samana Bay, Cuba would gain independence as a republic and Spain withdrew from South America and the Dominican Republic. Minor reparations would be paid to Mexico and a large amount of arms and supplies would be handed over to the Liberal forces.
France would fight on alongside its Confederate ally for a further year. The Battle of the Keyes would see the newly built Union deep water ironclads best their French counterparts and finally bring the entire Confederate coast under blockade. France would finally withdraw after its expeditionary army was cornered ironically at Yorktown, Virginia. Once a naval effort to relieve their besieged army failed France began to negotiate and end to the war (the Prussian-Italian victory over Denmark and Austria further forced Napoleon III to look for a way out of the North American debacle). France was forced to give up Saint Pierre and Miquelon (which was handed over to Britain to offset some of the war time loans), French Guyana and all of its Caribbean island territories. It was also forced to abandon its support to the newly proclaimed Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia but its astute monarch made a personal visit to the provisional Union capital of Philadelphia and met with Lincoln, and by allowing Britain to occupy Tierra del Fuego he retained control of and even enlarged his kingdom.
By mid-1865 the Confederacy was on the verge of collapse. Forrest and others led an exodus of Confederate die hards and over the next five years over 250,000 Southerners would emigrate to Brazil. Davis, Jackson and eight other high ranking Southern Generals and officials were executed following the Harrisburg Trials. Brazil would suffer its own civil war (1904-1907) following the defeat of its Entente allies in the Great War (1901-1905).
Benjamin
POD: Juarez and most of his cabinet are jailed by the Guadalajara garrison under pro-Conservative Colonel Landa. Juarez will spend the next twenty months in captivity before escaping to Tampico and fleeing to the US. After spending six months in New York City raising money, during which he met Lincoln at Cooper Union, Juarez returned to Mexico to rally the beleaguered Liberals.
Prior to the Battle: Aided by American funds and advisors including Generals Kearny and Meade, Juarez was able to raise a respectable force to face the Spanish and French backed Conservatives. An explosion of the Spanish warship Berenguela in New York harbor precipitated a crisis that would lead both Spain and France to declare war on the United States in early 1861, just a month after the lower South seceded. Only British aid following Spain's boarding of the British packet ship Trent kept the Union in the war during the early months of the conflict.
The formal Mexican (Liberal) - American alliance was signed on January 1, 1862 and Meade and Kearny returned to Mexico with a small expeditionary force. As the war progressed and the Union Navy grew stronger France looked for a way to bring the costly affair to a victorious finale. France landed an army of 25,000 under Bazaine at Charleston after New Orleans fell to attack led by Gen. Lyons. At the same time a Spanish contingent arrived in Mexico led by Gen. Juan Prim. It was decided by Lee, Bazaine and Prim that simultaneous offensives against the Union and the Liberals could bring the war to a quick end.
The Battles: The Lee/Bazaine offensive swept past Washington, which had fallen to the Confederates months prior, and into northern Pennsylvania. They were slowed by the valiant efforts of the Pennsylvanian and New York militia led by PA native John Reynolds. This allowed the Army of the Susquehanna under Halleck to concentrate just south of Abbottstown. July 1 saw a Union assault fail bloodily while July 2 saw a Confederate/French attack do likewise. After a day of skirmishing and minor attacks the Union once again launched an attack in the early hours of July 4. The French/Confederate lines held until the remnants of the militia army struck the French/confederates from the rear causing panic. Bazaine would die in the confusion while Lee was able to extradite the remains of the vaunted Army of Northern Virginia.
In Mexico Miramon personally led the Mexican contingent while Prim led the 15,000 Spanish, Austrian and Belgian soldiers. The Treaty giving Maximilian the Mexican crown had been signed just a month prior and Prim hoped to return to Spain a hero. Meade, Kearny and Mexican General Mariano Escobedo devised a plan to lure the Conservative Army into the rough terrain north of Leon. As fate would have it this battle also began on July 1st and over the next two days Meade's stubborn defense prevented the Mexicans from breaking the line while Escobedo launched a series of attacks on the Conservative flanks. This distracted the Conservative Army long enough that Kearny was able to sneak his smaller force of irregulars and cavalry among the supply train of the Spanish and Conservative forces. Prim realizing that he risked being caught in trap refused to support Miramon's final assault and instead withdrew towards Mexico City. Miramon's army was routed and he was captured.
Aftermath: Lee would die less than a month after the loss at Abbottstown due to the dual strains of a weak heart and pneumonia. Leadership of the Army of Northern Virginia would fall to Gen. Thomas Jackson. Jackson's vicious "black flag, no prisoners" way of warfare would shock the North and even the Confederacy's French allies. When news of the defeat reached Spain a Liberal revolt overthrew Isabella II, and Spain withdrew from the war in late October. The United States would gain Puerto Rico, Guam and basing rights in the Philippines and Samana Bay, Cuba would gain independence as a republic and Spain withdrew from South America and the Dominican Republic. Minor reparations would be paid to Mexico and a large amount of arms and supplies would be handed over to the Liberal forces.
France would fight on alongside its Confederate ally for a further year. The Battle of the Keyes would see the newly built Union deep water ironclads best their French counterparts and finally bring the entire Confederate coast under blockade. France would finally withdraw after its expeditionary army was cornered ironically at Yorktown, Virginia. Once a naval effort to relieve their besieged army failed France began to negotiate and end to the war (the Prussian-Italian victory over Denmark and Austria further forced Napoleon III to look for a way out of the North American debacle). France was forced to give up Saint Pierre and Miquelon (which was handed over to Britain to offset some of the war time loans), French Guyana and all of its Caribbean island territories. It was also forced to abandon its support to the newly proclaimed Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia but its astute monarch made a personal visit to the provisional Union capital of Philadelphia and met with Lincoln, and by allowing Britain to occupy Tierra del Fuego he retained control of and even enlarged his kingdom.
By mid-1865 the Confederacy was on the verge of collapse. Forrest and others led an exodus of Confederate die hards and over the next five years over 250,000 Southerners would emigrate to Brazil. Davis, Jackson and eight other high ranking Southern Generals and officials were executed following the Harrisburg Trials. Brazil would suffer its own civil war (1904-1907) following the defeat of its Entente allies in the Great War (1901-1905).
Benjamin
David S Poepoe
Banned
The Battle of Cherbourg: June 19th, 1864
The Battle of Cherbourg: June 19th, 1864
POD: CSS Alabama’s Executive Officer, John Kell, has the powder, shot and shells checked and replaced.
The Confederate raider CSS Alabama, under the command of Captain R. Semmes, was engaged by the sloop of war USS Kearsarge in international waters off Cherbourg, France. The Alabama did not open fire upon the Kearsarge until the range had closed to 1,300 yards and both ships had maneuvered to achieve raking fire on the other. The first broadside of the Alabama sent a 100 pound round that shot off the stem post of the Kearsarge. Immediately losing steering ability the US sloop was immediately raked across the stern at the circling Confederate warship. Pounded at close range by explosive shell and a quickly growing casualty list, US Captain Winslow was forced to strike his colors.
Captain Semmes of the Alabama, after accepting the surrender of the Kearsarge, came along side and rendered assistance before towing the stricken Kearsarge into Cherbourg Harbor.
Aftermath: Because of his victory Semmes was recalled back to the Confederacy to lead its small navy and command of the CSS Alabama was turned over to the newly promoted Kell. The CSS Alabama set out for the open Atlantic and for the next seven months avoided action with US warships and succeeded in capturing and burning 17 Union merchant ships. Kell and the Alabama received material aid and assistance from the Imperial Brazilian Government in January 1865 in retaliation for the breach of Brazilian neutrality by the US Navy in its seizing of the CSS Florida while at anchor in Bahia Bay, Brazil, in October of the previous year, before sailing south around Cape Horn and into the Pacific. Finding little commerce raiding in the Pacific Kell was successful in an early morning bombardment of San Diego, California, that did little damage besides spread panic along the coast of California and Oregon. Kell formally surrendered the Alabama to representatives of King Kamehameha V, in Honolulu Bay upon learning of the surrender of the Confederacy on May 1, 1865.
The Battle of Cherbourg: June 19th, 1864
POD: CSS Alabama’s Executive Officer, John Kell, has the powder, shot and shells checked and replaced.
The Confederate raider CSS Alabama, under the command of Captain R. Semmes, was engaged by the sloop of war USS Kearsarge in international waters off Cherbourg, France. The Alabama did not open fire upon the Kearsarge until the range had closed to 1,300 yards and both ships had maneuvered to achieve raking fire on the other. The first broadside of the Alabama sent a 100 pound round that shot off the stem post of the Kearsarge. Immediately losing steering ability the US sloop was immediately raked across the stern at the circling Confederate warship. Pounded at close range by explosive shell and a quickly growing casualty list, US Captain Winslow was forced to strike his colors.
Captain Semmes of the Alabama, after accepting the surrender of the Kearsarge, came along side and rendered assistance before towing the stricken Kearsarge into Cherbourg Harbor.
Aftermath: Because of his victory Semmes was recalled back to the Confederacy to lead its small navy and command of the CSS Alabama was turned over to the newly promoted Kell. The CSS Alabama set out for the open Atlantic and for the next seven months avoided action with US warships and succeeded in capturing and burning 17 Union merchant ships. Kell and the Alabama received material aid and assistance from the Imperial Brazilian Government in January 1865 in retaliation for the breach of Brazilian neutrality by the US Navy in its seizing of the CSS Florida while at anchor in Bahia Bay, Brazil, in October of the previous year, before sailing south around Cape Horn and into the Pacific. Finding little commerce raiding in the Pacific Kell was successful in an early morning bombardment of San Diego, California, that did little damage besides spread panic along the coast of California and Oregon. Kell formally surrendered the Alabama to representatives of King Kamehameha V, in Honolulu Bay upon learning of the surrender of the Confederacy on May 1, 1865.
67th Tigers
Banned
Several PoD's possible here. The most obvious is Lincoln doesn't interfere with the Peninsula plan and an amphibious movement up the York cuts off the ANV and destroys it in April 1862.
A more interesting one is that things continue as per normal, but Lincoln doesn't feel able to relieve McClellan in November 1862. I'll have to do this in parts.....
(All events in this post as per OTL)
In the aftermath of the Maryland Campaign McClellan's army had to refit for a month. Desperate pleas to "do something" from Washington were met with replies of "then supply me" from the Army. Refitting the army took longer than it should have, but finally on 22nd October McClellan issued orders to cross the Potomac and crush the rebel army, using the plan of action agreed with the President. He would move east of the Blue Ridge, seizing the gaps and boxing Lee's army up in the Shenandoah Valley. The president approved and released substancial reinforcements to McClellan, mainly the 3rd and 11th Army Corps (they never arrived OTL). At this time McClellan started to reorganise the Army of the Potomac into 4 "Grand Divisions"*, each of approximately the size of a European Corps**. McClellan's forces would cut lose from his supply lines*** and cross at Harper's Ferry and Berlin, move south to the east of the Blue Ridge aiming for the Manassas Gap Railroad some 30 miles south of the Potomac, where they would resupply. He would then cut lose again and head south and east for Warrenton and Culpepper to resupply again from the O&A railroad.
On 25th October, after positioning his forces, McClellan's army started crossing the Potomac with only 5 Corps (another corps was left, on the Presidents orders, to cover Sharpsburg etc.). Porter's wing, consisting of his own Corps and Couch's, crossed at Harper's Ferry. Burnside's wing, consisting of his own, Reynold's and Franklin's Corps. Each wing was supported by one of the two available cavalry brigades**** By the night of the 27th Burnside was at Lovettsville with 9th Corps and Reynolds had reached Berlin. Couch's corps had completed their crossing at Harper's Ferry and was concentrated. On the 28th Reynolds and Porter started crossing the Potomac. The the cavalry brigades ranged forward to recce the area and seize key positions.
On the 29th Couch began crossing the Shenandoah. Reynolds' Corps crossed the Potomac whilst Burnside edged forwards. Movements were disrupted when scouts reported Lee was moving on Harper's Ferry. This delayed Porter and Franklin from crossing the Potomac until the 30th due to the possibility of needing to concentrate against Lee. By the end of the 31st 4 Corps were in the Bull Run valley, excepting a division Porter left to guard Harper's Ferry, and Franklin was at Berlin. Pleasonton's cavalry had advanced to Snicker's Gap and had encounter a large force of Confederate infantry (a division of Jackson's Wing) holding it.
On the 1st November McClellan's forces marched into striking position against Snicker's Gap. 2nd Corps took it without major opposition the next morning, but provoked a major concentration against them. The whole of Jackson's wing intended to attempt to regain the gap the next day, but the Federal position was so strong that even Jackson couldn't conscience it.
Meanwhile, the movement to seize the gaps further south continued. Ashby's Gap was seized on the 3rd in a major cavalry action. (The largest all cavalry battle until OTL Brandy Station).
However, Lee's response to McClellan was to split his army. Lee remained in the Shenandoah Valley with Jackson, but despatched Longstreet with his wing to Culpepper. The forward elements of his wing arrived on the 3rd, and by the 5th Longstreet had established a good defensive position.
OTL this is what caused Lincoln to relieve McClellan. When he learnt that Longstreet was at Culpepper he overreacted. This is the PoD here, but it will not effect events until the 7th November.
Meanwhile on the 5th the change of base to the Bull Run Gap Railroad was completed. McClellan's advanced elements had operated as a flying column for 10 days. Reynolds seized Warrenton on the 6th (a day early) and McClellan formulated a plan to advanced down the O&A railroad, strike and destroy Longstreet at Culpepper, then continue the advance by changing base to the Richmond, Fredericksburg and Alexandria Railroad. Orders were given on the night of the 7th and on the 9th the disposition of McClellan’s army was:
Warrenton: 1st, 2nd and 5th Corps, reserve arty and GHQ
Waterloo, on the Rappahanock River: 9th Corps
New Baltimore and Thoroughfare Gap: 6th and 11th Corps
Coming down the O&A railroad: 3rd Corps (the head had reached Warrenton Junction)
(Note: these are the real dispositions, McClellan’s orders were followed for the marches of the 8th and 9th).
Lee had totally misjudged the situation, and on the 7th November was only just planning for a possible junction between Longstreet and Jackson, believing that only a detached Corps or so confronted Longstreet (see his letter of the 7th: OR 1, 19(2) pg 703).
Longstreet was so lacking in situational awareness that in fact he decided to attack the advancing Federal force, believing himself to be facing a detachment rather than 7 Army Corps.
(end OTL)
* Although attributed to Burnside, the "Grand Division" organisation was McClellan's, and came into force on 30th October. He had done this before on the Peninsula when he found Keyes was simply not up to the job, and formed a wing of 2nd and 4th Corps, effectively putting Sumner over Keyes. The confusion in command of the Maryland campaign seems to have convinced him that a General could not hold both a Corps and Wing command, and so decided to formalise the arrangement. As an interim the army was divided into 2 wings, under Porter (standing in for Hooker, wounded) and Burnside.
** There are good reasons for this size. A column of ca. 30,000 men is the most that can fit down a road in a day.
*** This campaign sees the maturation of the "flying column" method of supplying armies in America. The troops carried 7 days rations and made their marches out of supply, aiming for another resupply point. The best examplar of this in the ACW is Sherman's 1864 campaign.
**** What was "the Cavalry Division" in the Antietam campaign became 1st Cavalry Brigade. The cavalry of Pope's old army was remounted at Washington and became 2nd Cavalry Brigade.
Last edited:
Snake Featherston
Banned
Actually if this had happened, instead of Burnside hurling huge numbers of troops at Lee, McClellan would have been spanked far, far worse than at Second Bull Run. He would have feared Lee had 150,000 men, and between them Longstreet and Jackson would have destroyed the Army of the Potomac.