Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Beef and mutton is certainly one use for such land and is going on.
Due to the super high price of Lamb, I buy it once a year for Easter Dinner.
?But with a bigger British influence, will the DSA have a larger Sheep/Mutton Industry?

Panama belongs to Columbia.
OTL they hired the French Engineer/Company that built the Suez Canal. The company went bankrupt trying, and the Nicaraguan Canal became the top site.
I see the Nicaraguan Canal being first chose ITTL due to British Control of the Caribbean.
 

Glen

Moderator
Dear Glen
I was really disappointed the DSA didn't win the superlative contest. Continue doing such a good job anyway.:)

Thanks for your support - it's really hard to be too disappointed against such stiff competition and having such a good showing.

I will endeavor to persevere. :cool:
 

Glen

Moderator
Due to the super high price of Lamb, I buy it once a year for Easter Dinner.
?But with a bigger British influence, will the DSA have a larger Sheep/Mutton Industry?
Larger Sheep/Mutton industry? Yes. Huge? No.

Panama belongs to Columbia.
Um, not ITTL, it is part of Mexico.

OTL they hired the French Engineer/Company that built the Suez Canal. The company went bankrupt trying, and the Nicaraguan Canal became the top site.
I see the Nicaraguan Canal being first chose ITTL due to British Control of the Caribbean.

That's a very likely proposition, volcanic eruptions permitting.:)
 

Glen

Moderator
Gathered below some materials from previous discussion on Brazilian successor state flags. We're missing some I think.

Some suggestions for Brazilian successor state flags from Trovador in the Flag Thread II thread.

Flags suggested by The Professor for the Brazilian successor states on Flag Thread II:

attachment.php

Hmmm, you may be right about the Armillary being too monarchial.

What about combining the Sun of May with the triangle?:

Or Sun & Cross:

Historians dispute which was the first independent Lusophone nation in South America.

After the UPSA counterstrike against the United Kingdom of Portugal and Brazil, the question arose of what to do with the occupied Brazilian provinces. While some favored their annexation to the UPSA, it was eventually decided to grant them their independence (as a protectorate). The new state was named the Republic of Rio Grande do Sul, and came into being at the beginning of the 1820s. Shortly thereafter the Brazilians themselves sought to sever ties with Portugal, rebelling to declare the Republic of Brazil. There was talk of the Brazilian Republic annexing the Republic of Rio Grande do Sul, but the UPSA blocked any move towards such. The Brazilians did not go to war over the issue, having other matters to deal with, namely the Loyalist hold-outs in the north. Attempts to quell the pro-Portuguese forces in the north, far from the main power in the South, went poorly, especially when the King of Portugal sent a relief force to help hold the north at least loyal to the Portuguese crown. Eventually, the British brokered a peace between the Portuguese and Brazilians, with the north remaining a Portuguese colony, the Colony of Maranhao, while Portugal recognized the Republic of Brazil in the south.

However, peace internally in Brazil did not last long, as the issue of slavery boiled over in the early 1830s. The state of Pernambuco was the first state in Brazil to abolish slavery, and it and its neighbors was a hotbed of abolitionist sentiment in an otherwise slaveocracy ruled Brazil. Pernambuco legislators made several attempts to get the Republic to ban the practice, but to no avail. Finally, in 1834 Pernambuco and the other northern states seceeded from the Republic, declaring the abolitionist Confederation of the Equator (sometimes referred to as the Equatorial Confederacy).

Only a year later, in 1835, inspired by the abolition of slavery in Britain and the formation of the abolitionist Confederation of the Equator to the north, the slaves of Bahia rose up and took control of the state, forming the black controlled Bahia Republic.

The UPSA was fast to recognize all the new break-away states, much to the consternation of the Republic of Brazil.

The Break-Up of Brazil:
 

Glen

Moderator
I'd like to get the flags of the Brazilian successor states nailed down, but I still feel like we're missing some of the suggestions. Any of you see any missing (follow the links in the quotes to see some of the flags).
 

Glen

Moderator
These are the flags I found in the Flags thread for the DSA Brazilian Successor States - I think they are pretty much all of them, then.
Cheers. Feel free to use it :D



How about this (chronological) set of flags?

I have some suggestions:

For Republic of Brazil, the Incofidência Mineira would be perfect, as (IIRC) that event occurred in your TL too.
800px-Bandeira_de_Minas_Gerais.svg.png

It was a very republican and irredentist symbol - Brazil, IOTL, did not adopted it when it became independent because the red triangle on red with the "libertas quae sera tamen" motto was too "revolutionary" against Portugal and the Monarchy that Brazil became. I think that, in the context of your TL, the Armillar Sphere would be a rather "continuist" flag, too connected to the Portuguese symbolism given to Brazil, and would not have a lot of popular support.
The Latin motto in it reads "Libertas quae sera tamen", a verse of Virgil that translates to "Freedom, albeit late".



For Condeferation of the Equator, I tried something inspired in both the red-white-black of the abolitionists and the cross used in the OTL flag of the Confederation.
confeqvectorizedfree.png

The seven stars are for the seven provinces that form it (Sergipe, Pernambuco, Rio Grande do Norte, Paraiba, Alagoas, Ceará and Piaui), as it is a Confederation.

For Bahia, I used the dove from the flag of Salvador and the traditional colour of Bahia (red, blue and white).
bahia.png

It's not very revolutionary, but clearly shows their republican and "fraternal"/"equalitary"(in the french revolutionary meanings) of the republic. Besides, most of the black political revolts, in this period, were inspired by Haiti(is there an Haiti in your TL?), so the red-blue colour scheme could have another inspiration too.

I did also a version with black rather than blue, just to show another option.
bahiablack.png

Thank you for the feedback!

@ Republic of Brazil: I can't disagree that the Armillary Sphere is a more appealing symbol, but the Minas Gerais' motto is hard to win over, lol.
About its "revolutionarity", it's as "revolutionary" as a tricolour, but more "national" - if the idea is rather continuist and the Armillary Sphere gets more popular ITTL, though, I could see it working.
(oh, and yesterday was Tiradentes' day, the "martyr" of Minas Conspiracy!)

@Confederation of the Equator: The actual flag of the Confederation of the Equator, as seem here:
confederacao-do-equador-2.jpg

I think, though, that a thin stripe across the flag would be interesting too, to symbolize the "equator" part.
The provinces are the actual states/provinces that formed the OTL(and TTL) Confederation plus Piaui, which seems to be inside it ITTL. As it's a confederation, it seems to me that the representation of the constituent states would be fair.

@Bahia: I used the flag of Bahia's capital, Salvador city, as a base. The white dove is a nice symbol of liberty, equality and syncretism, which was very widespread among the african-brazilians in their mix of Catholicism and traditional religions. I agree that a "broken chains" symbol would be more obvious, but to show (the wish for) peace rather than (the regret of past) violence seems nicer to me.
There's also the actual Tailors Revolt flag, that happened in Bahia and had a very strong popular base:
800px-Flag_Revolt_of_the_Tailors.svg.png

It was republican, very, very anti-slavery and even against any kind of prejudice or segregation. "Equality" was their biggest political flag, attracting a lot of popular support. It was lead, though, by the intellectual elite of Bahia (masonic, of course, as every single Brazilian(and, in general, american) intellectual elite of those times), so I don't know if it's sufficiently related.

I agree about the cross - it's why I did a variant in my suggestions for Glen. But as they based their flag on the contemporary Imperial Brazilian flag I went with them doing the same with the ATL Republican one.

For an alternative to the Armillary but still in contemporary Brazilian colours (Gold and Blue) how about a Sun&Triangle flag for the Republic instead? with or without stripes:
 

Glen

Moderator
Though the gold rush in British California was small compared to that in the USA, it did attract some people to the region, and more were attracted with the nearing completion of a transcontinental railway route. Further, once the United States of America had the State of California enter the Union, British Californians were determined to achieve provincial status and be governed independently of Texas. Eventually, their petition was granted, but the question of what the name of the new province would be arose. Some thought some variant of California would be obvious, but they all were felt to define the region too much as not being US California. Instead, the founding fathers of the new province turned to English legends from the Age of Discovery and the name Sir Francis Drake gave to his landing on the west coast of North America for inspiration. Thus was the territory of British California replaced by the Dominion Province of Albion.

Albion.png
 

Glen

Moderator
Though the gold rush in British California was small compared to that in the USA, it did attract some people to the region, and more were attracted with the nearing completion of a transcontinental railway route. Further, once the United States of America had the State of California enter the Union, British Californians were determined to achieve provincial status and be governed independently of Texas. Eventually, their petition was granted, but the question of what the name of the new province would be arose. Some thought some variant of California would be obvious, but they all were felt to define the region too much as not being US California. Instead, the founding fathers of the new province turned to English legends from the Age of Discovery and the name Sir Francis Drake gave to his landing on the west coast of North America for inspiration. Thus was the territory of British California replaced by the Dominion Province of Albion.
attachment.php
 
I'd recommend Nova Albion, since Albion is still used poetically today to mean Britain and Drake named California Nova Albion. Ironically, Drake explored mainly Northern California. :D
 

Glen

Moderator
I'd recommend Nova Albion, since Albion is still used poetically today to mean Britain and Drake named California Nova Albion. Ironically, Drake explored mainly Northern California. :D

I thought about New Albion, but then I decided that the occasional confusion would be more amusing than anything else - and yes, the irony was completely intended.
 

Glen

Moderator
This timeline now has the fourth largest number of replies of all the timelines in the before 1900 forum.
 
Reminder to myself that I need to give a flag for Germany.

Seeing how it was unified by Hanover, red (Horse of Hanover) and yellow (Kingdom of Hanover) should be dominant. Maybe I could post a proposal tomorrow, seeing how it is kinda late for me (almost 11pm).

And btw, excellent TL and congratulations to the third place in the superlative poll, which is definitely deserved.

EDIT: Or coming to think of it, here is a rather simple proposal. I ditched red and replaced it with green, the Horse of Hanover can be inserted in the middle of the flag.

DSA%20-%20Germany%20proposal.png
 
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Glen

Moderator
Seeing how it was unified by Hanover, red (Horse of Hanover) and yellow (Kingdom of Hanover) should be dominant. Maybe I could post a proposal tomorrow, seeing how it is kinda late for me (almost 11pm).

Those are certainly possibilities. Get some rest!

And btw, excellent TL and congratulations to the third place in the superlative poll, which is definitely deserved.

Thank you, thank you very much!

EDIT: Or coming to think of it, here is a rather simple proposal. I ditched red and replaced it with green, the Horse of Hanover can be inserted in the middle of the flag.

That is one possibility certainly.
 
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