Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

[Glen]

Just a single outright state? also what is the Capital?

The capital of Hispaniola, Port Prince (or Port-au-Prince as many still know it), was not necessarily the most obvious choice for the island. However, the geopolitics of the Caribbean Theatre of the Napoleonic Wars dictated that Port Prince would be a vital target and supply point for the British forces who took the island. Later, as the city was transformed from military to civil capital, it's position gave easy access to fellow British island colonies Jamaica and Cuba, and the Gulf port of New Orleans in British Louisiana. There were several times that a move of the capital to Santo Domingo was considered, but in the end, when Hispaniola was named a Dominion, its capital was Port Prince.

 

[Glen]

Self Explanitory

A nice flag, but too OTL - there is no Trinitaria ITTL, and so likely.

 

[Glen]

Awesome! Perhapsthe Dominion of Hispanola will be the Newfoundland of the DSA?

You be stealing my thoughts!

That certainly is one possibility...

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

another point to be brought up is that i dont think Whites in Austrailia and South Africa will like this move. In a racist mindset, why should another race "Less superior" (No Race is less superior or more, i dont support this view, im stating how alot of people felt back then) gain freedom and not them. Public demonstartions turned Riots turned REvolutions could end up happening

 

[Glen]

There is no fundamental problem with having a unitary dominion - in some situations, where the geographic area is reasonably compact, or an island like here, it might actually be a better idea, rather than federalism for federalism's sake. There is also the cost aspect as well - running half a dozen states alongside the federal government can make for ineffiency and unecessary duplication.

Just so, just so...

Colonies that are larger/dispersed, more heavily populated or with distinct regional cultural-ethnic groups perhaps are more naturally suited to federal or looser government types

Well, there is the French/Spanish divide on the island. But such a split could be more explosive than keeping them together.

NZ experimented with this as well for about three decades before centralising in 1876, IOTL. This was probably aided by the fact that the Settler governments were pretty ethnically homogenous and settlement happened pretty quickly (space of about 3 decades). Noting of course the lack of consultation with the indigenous

Good points on that, and useful, too. Thanks!

 

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

In the race for Best Timeline, we're still close at 55 votes, we're only seven votes away from the front-runner, but we have only one day left to close the gap!

So if you have not already voted, PLEASE VOTE DSA!!!!

 

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

In the race for Best Timeline,

we're still close at 57 votes, still only seven votes away from the front-runner,

but we have only one day left to close the gap!

So if you have not already voted, PLEASE VOTE DSA!!!!

 

[Glen]

Not accurate. Hispaniola has millions of people and ample natural resources, not a few hundred thousand and some fish.

Yes, and the economy hasn't been as hurt by either war or isolation from trade as in OTL.

If they stumble, badly, I could see them being swallowed up by the DSA, particularly because culturally it seems there will be little difference between Hispaniola and the DSA islands in the Caribbean (everything else).

Hispaniola is definitely a bit different from the rest of the Dominion's Caribbean, but not as much as it would have been OTL, this is true.

That said, there is little upside for them beyond being a wealthy, successful island. I suppose it's plausible if they do really well Britain will assign the Guyanas to them, rather than the DSA. And it's plausible the Lesser Antilles, if it's left up to self-determination, may decide to go with Hispaniola (better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond after all). I think both are rather unlikely.

But very interesting thoughts nonetheless.

And I still say that while French Creole should begin going extinct (it did on most of the Anglophone Antilles except Dominica IOTL), Spanish will survive and thrive in the longer run.

Well, there are more trading partners in the region who speak Spanish, and more Spanish speakers at the time in the Dominion, but don't count on it.

 

[Glen]

Interesting, but I think you're being a bit rosy about Hispaniola

Quite possibly.

1) In the absence of slave labour, the economy of the western half (OTL Haiti) will crumble with greatly increased suger costs (especially as it has to compete to Cuba and the Eastern half, both places with better infrastructure and terrain and in the same imperial market).

Slavery was not abolished, just rescinded for many of the blacks who stopped fighting the British. Those who did not were in fact killed or re-enslaved. After the war, new slaves were brought in to the fields from outside the island. Once slavery was abolished throughout the British Empire, Hispaniola like other parts of the British Empire imported indentured workers from India as needed.

2) Thus you're going to get a mass movement from the West to the East (where the non-sugar crops are, and the mines) of black french speakers becoming a tense enroaching underclass to the mestizo spanish speakers.

Hmmm, didn't know that part...so we overall probably see more of an evening out, at least in the rural areas, of the population, with spanish speaking slaves being brought west, and creole speaking freedmen seeking work in the East. Yes, this will make for even more interesting tensions.

3) The Whites will probably pull out of the west too as there is no profit to be made sans slavery and the terrain and disease situation is unpleasent, and it will languish without investment.

See comments above.

4) This isn't a recipe for a happy place.

So basically you are arguing that West Hispaniola needs slavery to be a decent place? Well, it worked out a bit different since slavery was more curtailed than abolished, at least until indentured labor could fill the gaps.

 

[Glen]

Do it for a new Union of Kalmar! Do it for a USA thats the largest nation in the world! Do it for a Virginian Border culture, a New York based, and an Arkansas settled by British gentelmen!

Bah, I've been to Queensland already

Funny, Plumber, very funny!

 

[Plumber]

Funny, Plumber, very funny!

I'm afraid I haven't been to Queensland however

What's going on in South America?

 

[Glen]

i was thinking North Carolina the Piedmont region including the area around Charlotte in south Carolina otl. after otl arw large push happoned into lost Cherokee lands not ending until the trail of tears

Part of that happened as the reconciliation between the Cherokees and the British didn't really finalize until the 1820s.

you mean English?

Something like English.

if my memory serves there was a gentler french revolution and a better more stable french monarchy has this influenced "proper" french?

Yes, your memory serves correctly.

 

[Glen]

another point to be brought up is that i dont think Whites in Austrailia and South Africa will like this move. In a racist mindset, why should another race "Less superior" (No Race is less superior or more, i dont support this view, im stating how alot of people felt back then) gain freedom and not them. Public demonstartions turned Riots turned REvolutions could end up happening

I think a lot of people are getting TTL's British Hispaniola too confused with OTL's Haiti. There are still 'white' upper class citizens in Hispaniola (mostly British immigrants and older Criolle families), though they are supplemented by mulatto and even a few black members of the upper class as well. The middle and lower classes are mostly mulatto and black. Of course, the slave classes are black, a mix of creole and spanish speakers.

 

[Glen]

I'm afraid I haven't been to Queensland however

Ooops!

What's going on in South America?

A VERY good question!

 

[Plumber]

Ooops!

Never let reality get in the way of a good joke

 

[Glen]

Never let reality get in the way of a good joke

Indeed, indeed!

 

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

Only a few hours left to vote - we could still close the gap!

 

[Nugax]

You can get indentured labour to pick cotton, which is backbreaking work for tiny pay, but they will certainly not put up with the old style conditions of sugar production what with it killing you.

The western end of the island will have to switch to low intensity methods, which means it will suddenly have a very considerable amount of surplus workforce, and no oodles of cash to keep the whites there. I'm not saying Haiti needs slavery, its just still going to be a shitty place without it, and since these *Haitians can migrate they will, and the east will hate that.

The upper class have the whole empire now to move too, without the mad profits from slavery they are going to piss off elsewhere and leave west hispanola in the same investment pit as the OTL.

 

[Arachnid]

Except that they have the capital which is going to mean that while people may move out of rural areas they are going to move too Port Prince.

 

[Glen]

Only a few hours left to vote - we could still close the gap!

I want to thank all of you who voted for the Dominion of Southern America timeline in the recent Superlative Timeline poll for the 2011 Turtledove awards. We garnered a total of 61 votes, which placed us in third place behind statichaos' World of Laughter, World of Tears (67 votes) and EdT's winning "Fight and be Right" (70 votes). Those were both timelines that have been worked on over a year, and both wildly popular and well done. The fact that we came so close to them as a NEW timeline is a real testament to your support!

Thank you, dear readers!