how possible is this borders in europe ?
- Thread starter kasumigenx
- Start date
It looks like a POD in the Hundred Years war where England triumphs and butterflies into a surviving Kingdom of Burgundy, a stronger Holy Roman Empire, and...maybe some kind of dynastic war between Spain and surviving France that results in a Spanish victory?
But then you have the OTL borders in Eastern Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East that throw that off.
But then you have the OTL borders in Eastern Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East that throw that off.
Germanies borders require world war II and Turkeys borders require wwi.
I go with the following:
Slightly different WWII, the USSR gets a heavy beating and is pushed back far. There is no de Gaulle and Petains leads France into an alliance with Germany.
The tides turn, when Franco and Mussolini, who stayed neutral until then launch a sneak attack on Germany. They claim huge territorial rewards for this.
What remains of France breaks appart in an civil war and the neighbours step in.
Either after WWII or after the fall of communism an Eastern European Federation is created as an anti Russian/Soviet bullwark.
Later on Austria joins Germany voluntarilly out of fear of Italy.
I go with the following:
Slightly different WWII, the USSR gets a heavy beating and is pushed back far. There is no de Gaulle and Petains leads France into an alliance with Germany.
The tides turn, when Franco and Mussolini, who stayed neutral until then launch a sneak attack on Germany. They claim huge territorial rewards for this.
What remains of France breaks appart in an civil war and the neighbours step in.
Either after WWII or after the fall of communism an Eastern European Federation is created as an anti Russian/Soviet bullwark.
Later on Austria joins Germany voluntarilly out of fear of Italy.
Frankly, an Oder-Neisse line with a POD in the Medieval Ages is unlikely, if not borderline ASB because of too many butterflies. Likewise, all the borders in eastern Europe...
[This is entirely ridiculous-I thought that having OTL Kazakhstan in ATLs had been mocked to death, but apparently not . . .
It also includes the Finno-Swedish border that was invented in the 19th century, way too late for it to plausibly appear in a timeline where the rest of Europe looks the way it does on the map.
Every single border is quite plausible. But the master of this universe had ever less phantasy when going East ...
No they aren't. Especially in the east with all the Soviet invented borders.
It's a philosophical question whether reality is plausible by default.
Or perhaps only a linguistic one.
To be fair I did figure out a way it could be plausible (in a manner): Soviet invasion during the early cold war. The Soviet Union overruns Europe, and the USA for some reason or another doesn't interfere. The commies set up a Central European Union to act as their puppet, or maybe as an SSR (all the SSRs being shown as independent on this map) while they proceed to take Germany. Spain meanwhile has at some point had a communist revolution and is on the side of the Soviets, taking the chance to annex Portugal while attentions are elsewhere. They then together with the SU plow into France and the lowlands, and France and Britain in desperation form a union to help tackle the commies, managing to convince the Irish to join in as well. The newly conquered communist Italy puppet is given some land as well, and a new Anschluss (with Switzerland being partitioned!) is arranged to united as many Germans as possible under the DDR. The area in the lowlands and eastern France is a Soviet occupation zone. Presumably the Soviets have also taken Scandinavia in the process, and for some reason created a Baltic SSR out of Latvia and Estonia. Neither France nor Britain has had time to withdraw from the middle east properly when the invasion comes, explaining the united Levant (being a Franco-British colony).
That would explain it fairly well I would think, although you'd need to explain why the USA isn't doing anything.
Any Soviet union managing that level of success, especially with some Spanish Communist-controlled puppet giving them a second front, would overrun Europe. There wouldn't be a united Franco-Britain left.
Well, it could be a map of fronts during the invasion before the SU has completely beaten France.
I thought it would be a Henry V wins the HYW map, but the Oder-Neisse line bugs me severely. Any Late Medieval/Early Modern POD requires that Pomerania and Silesia be in German hands, save if Poland manages to grab them through ASBs.
In other words, too much convergence.
In other words, too much convergence.