Ancient Geography Database

One problem with ancient AH (which may contribute to it's relative unpopularity compared with other topics) is definitely the massive amount of research one has to do (along with dealing with immense butterflies). One aspect of research also involves ancient geography. I decided - partially in my own interest - to do some research and gather together informations. I also intend to provide some superflous other informations, possible cross references, etc.

Eventually I will also add maps - but I current can't do so for technical problems. ;)
 
Part #1 - Gaul

Overview
Location: Gaul (Western Europe - modern Benelux countries, France, western Germany and Switzerland)
Time Period: - in the narrower sense, 2nd century BC to 1st century AD (Roman conquest of Gaul, and it's aftermath), in the wider sense 5th century BC (La-Tene Period) through 5th century AD (Migrations Period).

The first region of Gaul to be subjugated to Roman rule was the southern area along the Mediterranean coast, which the Romans at first dubbed transalpine Gaul (as opposed to the 'cisalpine Gaul' located in northern Italy). Later, this transalpine Gaul became the province of Gallia Narbonensis. In the 50s BC, Gaius Julius Caesar subjugated all of Gaul in a massive military campaign which is documented in Caesar's commentaries on the war. Caesar divided Gaul into three parts, Gallia Belgica (in the northeast), Gallia Aquitania (in the southwest) and Gallia Celtica, which according to Caesar had their own languages and customs. The vast bulk of Gaul certainly spoke Gaulish, a P-Celtic language, but in Aquitania, the Aquitanian language (also called Old Basque) was also spoken. An interesting naming phenomenon in Gaul is that modern town names often reflect ancient tribal names - rather than Roman town names (which I have often given in bracket). I have divided the Gaulish tribes by region:

Belgic Tribes (note that there was also a tribe called "Belgae" in Britain)
Aduatuci - "Germanic" see below
Ambiani - Amiens (Samarobriva, Civitas Ambianensium)
Atrebates - Arras, Atrois Region (Nemetocenna Atrebatum) - also in Britain
Bellovaci - Beauvais (Caesaromagus)
Caleti or Caletes - Harfleur, Normandy (Caracotinum)
Catalauni - Chalons-En-Champagne
Eburones - see "Germani Cisrhenani"
Mediomatrici - Metz (Divodurum Mediomatricorum)
Menapi/Menapii - Cassel near Calais (Castellum Menapiorum), also in Ireland
Morini - around Therouanne (Tarvanna, Civitas Moriniorum)
Nervii - Bavay (Bagacum Nerviorum)
Remi - Reims (Durocorteron, Durocotorum)
Suessiones - Soissons (Augusta Suessionum)
Treveri - Trier (Augusta Treverorum)
Tungri - "Germanic" see below
Veliocasses - Rouen (Rotomagus)
Viromandui - Noyon, Oise Department (Noviomagus Veromanduroum)

Aremorican Tribes
Andes or Andecavi - Angers, Anjou (Juliomagus)
Aulerci - tribal confederation, see below
Baiocasses - Bayeux (Civitas Baiocassium)
Curiosolites - ?
Lexovii - Lisieux (Noviomagus Lexoviorum)
Osismii - Finistere Department
Namnetes - Nantes (Portus Namnetum)
Redones - Rennes (Condate)
Unelli or Venelli - Cotentin Peninsula / near Cherbourg
Veneti - Vannes (Darioritum)

Aulerci sub-tribes:
Cenomani - Le Mans (Civitas Cenomanorum) also in Italy
Diablintes - Jublains, Mayenne Department (Noeodunum)
Eburovices - Evreux (Mediolanium Aulerocorum)

Tribes of Gallia Celtica
Ambarri - Ain Department, clients of the Aedui
Aedui - Bibracte near Autun (Augustodunum)
Arverni - Auvergne region - Gergovie near Clermont-Ferrand (Gergovia)
Biturges-Cubi - Bourges (Avaricon / Avaricum)
Carnutes - Chartres (Civitas Carnutum)
Helvetii - west of Lake Neuchatel, Switzerland
Lemovici - Limoges, Limousin (Augustoritum)
Lingones - Langres (Andematunnum) - also in Italy
Mandubii - Alesia, Alise-Sainte-Reine, Burgundy
Parisii - Paris (Lutetia) - also in Britain
Petrocorii - Perigeux (Civitas Petrucoriorum)
Pictones - Poitiers (Lemonum Pictonum)
Raurici - Kaiseraugust, Switzerland (Augusta Raurica)
Ruteni - Rodez (Segodunum / Civitas Rutenorum)
Senones - Sens, Burgundy (Agedincum, Senones) - also in Italy
Santones - Saintes, Charente-Maritime (Mediolanum Santonum)
Segobriges (or Segusiavi) - Lyon (Lugdunum)
Sequani - around Besançon (Vesontio, Besontio)
Tricasses - Troyes (Augustobona Tricassium)
Turones - Tours (Caesarodunum / Civitas Turonum) - also in Germania Magna?
Vellavi - Le Puy-en-Velay, Auvergne (Civitas Vellavorum)

The "Germanic" Belgic and Gaulish Tribes
This is a controversial topic, hence I decided to give it a separate cathegory to give it some attention. There is a number of tribes along the Rhine which the Romans considered "undoubtably Germanic", yet most of them carry overtly Celtic tribal, personal and place names (eg "Eburones", "Nemetes"). There are multiple interpretations for this: they might be Celticized Germanic tribes who had crossed the Rhine in earlier times, or they might simply be Celtic tribes who were displaced from their original homes on the right bank of the Rhine (ie, from Germania Magna, thereby making the statement of them being of "Germanic" origin actually true). Probably, a combination of both scenarios existed. There is also a few overtly Germanic tribes which crossed the Rhine during Roman times.

The "Germani Cisrhenani" of Gallia Belgica:
Caerosi - possibly Eifel/Ardennes area
Condrusi - Condroz region, Belgium
Eburones - westwards from around Bonn (Bonna, Castra Bonnensis), later wiped out and the area was resettled by the Ubii (see below).
Paemani - Famenne region, Belgium

Other tribes:
Aduatuci or Atuatuci - a Belgic tribe purportedly descended from remnants of the Cimbri and Teutones
Batavi - the Rhine Delta, around Nijmegen
Nemeti - Speyer (Noviomagus Nemetum), originally lived beyond the Rhine.
Triboci or Tribocci - Alsace, affiliated with the Suebi under Ariovistus
Tungri - Tongeren (Atuatuca Tungrorum)
Ubii - settled at Cologne (Oppidum Ubiorum, later Colonia Agrippinensis) after they were invited by the Romans to plunder in and settle in former Eburones territory.
Vangiones - settled near Worms (Burbetomagos), affiliated with the Suebi under Ariovistus

Tribes of Gallia Narbonensis
Allobroges - Vienne, Rhone-Alps ("Vienna", not to be mixed up with the Vienna in Austria, which the Romans called "Vindobonna"!)
Cavares - Avignon (Avennio)
Caturiges - Chorges (Caritomagus)
Deciates - near Antibes, Alpes-Maritimes Department
Helvii - Alba-la-Romaine, Rhone-Alpes (Alba Helviorum)
Salluvii - oppidum of Entremont, a Ligurian tribe
Sordones - approximately Pyrenees-Orientales department, an Iberian tribe
Tricastini - Saint-Paul-Trois-Chateaux, Rhone-Alps (Augusta Tricastinorum)
Vocontii - Vaison-la-Romaine (Vasio Vocontiorum)
Volcae Areomici - Nimes (Colonia Nemausus)
Volcae Tectosages - Tolouse (Tolosa) - also in Anatolia

Tribes of Gallia Aquitania
Ausci - Auch, Midi-Pyrenees
Berrigones
Biturges Vivisci - Bordeaux (Burdigalia)
Boiates - Arcachon Bay area, may be related with the Boii
Cocosates
Convenae
Elusates
Lactorates
Sotiates
Tarbelli
Vasates

River Names
Garonne - Garumna (from Aquitanian)
Loire - Liger
Maas - Mosa (Lat).
Moselle - Mosella ("little Mosa")
Rhine - Rhenos (Gaul.)
Rhone - Rodonos (Gaul.), Rhodanus (Lat.)
Saone - Souconna (Gaul.)
Seine - Sequana (Gaul.)
 
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Thande

Donor
Ah good to see you are launching this project. You might want to expand it to things like ancient coastlines w.r.t. the Netherlands, Denmark, the Persian Gulf eta l.
 
Ah good to see you are launching this project. You might want to expand it to things like ancient coastlines w.r.t. the Netherlands, Denmark, the Persian Gulf eta l.

Thanks. And definitely. It's bound to be quite focused on the Euro-Mediterranean area, but I intend to include as many geographic features as possible. It'll also be somewhat cross-time in certain places, wherever it is appropriate. :)
 
Thanks. And definitely. It's bound to be quite focused on the Euro-Mediterranean area, but I intend to include as many geographic features as possible. It'll also be somewhat cross-time in certain places, wherever it is appropriate. :)
Do you think you would mind if I contributed some stuff on Pre-Colombian America?
 
Excellent. Hopefully someone steps forward to help with Asian history at some point, but regardless this could be a tremendous resource.
 

Sandmannius

Banned
This is a really great project, consider me subscribed. Also, the Germanic "Batavi" tribe were also considered a mix of Celtic/Germanic.
 
Part #2 - Germania Magna
Location: Central Europe (modern areas of Germany, northern Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, Czech Republic, northern Austria, Slovakia).
Time Period: 2nd century AD (contemporary to the Roman Period)

Introduction:
In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy made a massive work on the (to him) known world, which includes Germania Magna. Following their catastrophic defeat in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (9 AD), the Romans withdrew from Germania Magna. Nonetheless, they apparently scouted the area up to the Baltic Sea with considerable precision, which in turn manifests itself in this map. This map is also the best shot we have, from the perspective of alternate history, what a Roman province of Germania Magna would look like. :)

The problem is, of course, with all the detail and skill that Ptolemy had, his maps aren't free of mistakes, and in the past a major problem was that the many towns which Ptolemy mentions in Germania Magna were unfindable due to the distortion of the map. Last year, a group at the university of Berlin claimed that they had "deciphered" Ptolemy's "code", and posted a list of cities and towns that were to be equated with the towns from Ptolemy's Germania Magna. Furthermore, the group claimed that "half of Germany's towns are a thousand years older than previously thought". This is to be taken with a grain of salt, since if there was actually a continuity at the towns there (most likely) should also be some continuity in names: this leaves two possibilities, either the towns were at different sites and/or they were destroyed (most probably, during the Migrations Period) and new towns were build at their place. Probably both scenarios existed.

Nonetheless, I do not wish to spoil their work, since their list can certainly serve as a very good guide (even though in some cases the actual towns probably lay tens of kilometers off), especially for those who wish to subjugate Germania Magna to the Roman Empire. :D

Further Notes:
Ptolemy grouped the towns into four cathegories, which are north-to-south. Inside each group, town names procede roughly west-to-east. Note that in brackets, I have included different town names that are more probable locations for some towns. Underlined town names are those where the identification is pretty safe.

What is particularly fascinating is that on the one hand there's obviously many overtly Germanic names ("-furdum", "-burgium"), but in the south we also have a fair number of overtly Celtic place names ("-dunum") and even a Dacian (!) town name ("Setidava").

First (Northern / North Sea) Group:

Phleum - Appingedam, Netherlands
Siatutanda - Lathen at the Ems
Tecelia - Elsfleth-Hogenkamp
Fabiranum - Heidenschanze near Sievern
Treva - Hamburg
Leufana - Hitzacker
Lirimiris - Hagenow
Marionis - Schönberg at the Maurine
Altera Marionis - Lalendorf
Coesoenum - Waren at the Müritz
Cistuia - Stargard
Alisus - Temmen
Laciburgium - Ueckermünde
Bunitium - Lubieszewo in Poland
Virunum - Drawsko Pomorskie, Poland
Viritium - Czlopa, Poland
Rugium - Miatsko, Poland
Scurgum - Chojnice, Poland
Ascaucalis - Osielsko near Bromberg/Bydgoszcz, Poland

Second (Central-Northern) Group:

Asciburgium - Asberg, suburb of Moers at the Lower Rhine
Navalia - Essen-Hinsel
Mediolanium - Borken
Teuderium - Beelen
Bogadium - Salzkotten
Stereontium - Bad Driburg
Amisia - Geismar near Fritzlar - the site of Thor's Oak
Munitium - Hegemünden
Tulifurdum - Hannover
Ascalingium - Hildesheim
Tulisurgum - Brunswick
Pheugarum - Osterode
Canduum - Eisenach
Tropea Drusi - Halberstadt
Luppia - Bernburg at the Saale
Mersovium - Magdeburg
Aregelia - Leipzig
Galaegia - Riesa
Lupfurdum - Dresden
Susudata - Fürstenwalde
Colancorum - Kostzry, Poland
Lugidunum - Odrzanskie, Poland (more probably Liegnitz/Legnica)
Stragona - Görlitz
Limis Lucus - Sierakow, Poland
Budorigum - Glogow, Poland
Leucaristus - Leszeno, Poland
Arsonium - Ostrzeszow, Poland
Calisia - Kalisz in Poland
Setidava - Konin in Poland

Third (Central-Southern) Group:

Alisum - Bergisch-Gladbach
Budoris - Drachenfels in the Siebengebirge
Mattiacum - Naunheim
Arctaunum - Friedberg in Hesse
Novaesium - Melsungen
Melocabus - Bad Hersfeld
Gravionarium - Schlüchtern
Locoritum - Lohr
Segodunum - Bad Wimpfen
Devona - Crailsheim
Bergium - Schwanberg near Kitzingen
Menosgada - Hallstadt at the Main
Bicurgium - Jena
Marobudum - Amberg
Redintuinum - Louny at the Eger, Czechia
Nomisterium - Litomerice, Czechia
Meliodunum - Pisek, Czechia
Casurgis - Prague
Strevinta - Hnmezdice
Hegetmatia - Mlada Boleslav
Budorgis - Kolin
Edurum - Hradek
Arsicua - Mistelbach at the Zaya, Austria
Parienna - Breclav
Setovia - Komorany, Czechia
Carrodunum - Rymarov, Czechia
Asanca - Kojetin, Czechia

Fourth (Southern / Danubian) Group:

Tarodunum - Riegel at the Kaiserstuhl (far more probably Zarten in the Black Forest, which is recorded as "Zarduna" in the Medieval Ages)
Arae Flaviae - Rottweil
Riusiava - Heidengraben bei Grabenstetten
Alcimoennis - Sontheim at the Brenz
Cantioebis - Aalen
Bibacum - Finningen
Brodentia - Donauwörth
Setuacotum - Treuchtlingen
Usbium - Linz, Austria
Abilunum - Freistadt, Austria
Furgisatis - Budweis, Czechia
Coridorgis - Jihlava, Czechia
Mediolanum - Korneuburg, Austria
Felicia - Vyskov, Czechia
Eburodunum - Brno/Brünn, Czechia
Anduaetium - Andovce, Slovakia
Celamantia - Kormano, Slovakia
Singone - Sarovce, Slovakia
Anavum or Adiabum? - Almasfuzito, Hungary
 
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I feel pity for you if you have to make an organized of all Germanc tribes. :p

That's the reason why I did start out with the town names there - that one was more strait forward. ;) My next list however will more probably be a suplementary on Gaul (geographic features, town names during the Roman period, provincial boundaries).
 
Great job! That's one of the best compendia of celtic tribes I've seen. But say, are alternate tribes and migrations going to need their UCS or equivalent color? I'm thinking pink for the Angles, some blue for the Goths, a color for the Picts and maybe shades of greek for Eolians, Dorians and Ionians. But that won't probably even become a topic for a long time.
 
Great job! That's one of the best compendia of celtic tribes I've seen. But say, are alternate tribes and migrations going to need their UCS or equivalent color? I'm thinking pink for the Angles, some blue for the Goths, a color for the Picts and maybe shades of greek for Eolians, Dorians and Ionians. But that won't probably even become a topic for a long time.

Thanks. Well, I have a discussion regarding an extension of the UCS before, (specifically with Thande regarding his TCS), and frankly the extension of the color scheme into antiquity is problematic, and also in some cases... well... a tad superfluous (you could call it case of potential overregulation). There's also the question wether continuity for a color should rather go via geography or via ethnicity: for example, should British Pale Red be used for a unified ATL-Brythonic state in a TL where the Anglo-Saxons never invaded Britain, or should it be used for an Anglo-Saxon state on the Jutland penninsula? Likewise, should French Blue be used for a unified Gaulish state, or for a Frankish state forming in northern Germany?
 
There would be advantages and disadvantages in both cases. For example, an Ethnic continuity would be usefus if the timeline was about alternate barbaric invasions (that is, Goths sacking Constantinople rather than Rome and forming an Eastern Gothic Empire) but it may become complicated with so many triibes and ethnic group. Conversely, a french blue gaulish state (say, a Gallic Empire successfully seceding from Rome, or a victoriuous Vercingetorix) vould be easier, but it risks to give a distorted image comparatively (that is, in Thande's AH comparative database).
 

Thande

Donor
Thanks. Well, I have a discussion regarding an extension of the UCS before, (specifically with Thande regarding his TCS), and frankly the extension of the color scheme into antiquity is problematic, and also in some cases... well... a tad superfluous (you could call it case of potential overregulation). There's also the question wether continuity for a color should rather go via geography or via ethnicity: for example, should British Pale Red be used for a unified ATL-Brythonic state in a TL where the Anglo-Saxons never invaded Britain, or should it be used for an Anglo-Saxon state on the Jutland penninsula? Likewise, should French Blue be used for a unified Gaulish state, or for a Frankish state forming in northern Germany?

You might want to talk to Alex Richards, he's done some interesting modifications to TCS to better fit it to maps for earlier periods of history.

I personally define colour scheme colours as predominantly racial (or linguistic if you prefer) rather than in terms of locale, so pale red would be for the Anglo-Saxons and blue for the Franks etc...problem is there is no Welsh colour.
 
If a map is made for this, I say that existing color standards are pretty useless and misleading. Just color tribes as needed and label them on the map.
 
You might want to talk to Alex Richards, he's done some interesting modifications to TCS to better fit it to maps for earlier periods of history.

I guess I should send him a PM and invite him to this thread then... ;)

I personally define colour scheme colours as predominantly racial (or linguistic if you prefer) rather than in terms of locale, so pale red would be for the Anglo-Saxons and blue for the Franks etc...problem is there is no Welsh colour.

Thing is, with the French, it's a really problematic case: technically, they're descended from latinized Gauls, while the Franks themselves obviously spoke a Germanic language. In so far, linguistically, it'd make much more sense to give the Franks the color of Germany. :confused:

I agree however that we would need a Welsh/Brythonic color.
 
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