Interesting - an OTL state capital overshadowed by a city downriver becomes the equivalent to Ottawa.
Glen
Moderator
Thank you. I hope to see you enjoying the material and commenting in the days and weeks to come!
Glen
Moderator
Given that it ushered in the early demise of the slaveocracy, the rise of the DSA, and the BSA-Texas union, I would say that everything went for the better.
Good points one and all. I will have to do a posting maybe in the next few days on the party system arising in the DSA.
Glen
Moderator
Yes, indeed. Actually, it was fear that New Orleans would overshadow any Capital placed in it (as well as the possibility of flooding) that led to the selection of Baton Rouge upriver.
Interesting update, I didn't think you would pick gulf city, but it does make a lot of sense what city you chose.
Glen
Moderator
Thanks. I was pretty certain that the nod would go to a Gulf City close to the Mississippi from the beginning. This would place the capital within reasonable travel distance of the entire Dominion, especially the interior with its strong loyalist base.
Actually for the longest time I thought it would go to New Orleans, but it was too prominant in the war, too prone to flooding worries, and maybe just too 'New Orleans' for the rest of the British. Though it has a French name, it will probably take on a much more mixed Southern British/Creole flavor over the decades.
That was something I was wondering about New Orleans as well. Would it stay the same name with a British take-over or change like New Amsterdam did?
Steve
I think New Orleans would keep its name, but Baton Rouge would almost certainly change.
Glen
Moderator
That is an interesting question. I'm going with a few variable changes, mostly depending on local conditions and chance. For example, English 'settling' in Puerto Rico have gone crazy Anglicizing everything (Richport for the Island, St. John for the City, etc.). However, along the Mississippi, Francophone names are proving resiliant, and in fact Little Rock has remained Petite Roche and Baton Rouge will remain Baton Rouge. Heck, it's not like Ottowa is an English name!
Heck, it's not like Ottowa is an English name!
Neither however is it French (granted it is a Franchisation of a native word) and where one can logically assume that anti-French currents would lead wholly French names (such as Petite Roche, Baton Rouge, Nouvelle Orleans) to possibly be converted to English, a native word written with a French accent is likely to be soon enough ignored as anything. Therefore I'd say the comparison isn't accurate.
Sorry I hadn't commented earlier - I was a bit late to the party in spotting this thread burst back into life but I had been lurking for a week or so before posting this. I just had little to say about the naming of cities half of which I'd never really heard of.
Glen
Moderator
Point!
True. However, I don't know that anti-French attitude is a strong enough reason to automatically assume changes in name. In this case, although the English took the territory, there is still a fair amount of Francophones there (and there earlier than the Anglophones). Note that the Orleans is still in New Orleans - it wasn't changed to something fully English, just partly so.
Maybe slightly askew - though my point remains that it is not absolutely necessary to rename everything with 'English' names.
Hey, I just appreciate your patronage! Feel free to just give short 'attaboy' posts to keep the updates flowing!
Attaboy.
Fair enough on the other stuff. I didn't mean to suggest that the French names definitely should be renamed from French, only that there was a different cause for doing so than the reason for keeping Ottawa.
Very good timeline. It's an interesting idea that the British keep the American south, while America seizes Canada. Keep up the good work.
Glen
Moderator
Thanks, and thanks!
Thank you for you kind words and your patronage. I shall endeavor to do so.
Glen
Moderator
Houston - JacksonDunno whichever ones have become important over the timeline
IMO urban centres in the ATL that I need names would be:
Galveston - Laffitte Island
Beaumont - Georgetown
Dallas/Arlington/Fort Worth - New Dover
Shreveport - New Edinburgh
Little Rock - Petite Roche
A centre with no OTL analog near the top of the navigable Arkansas river - The Arkansas is not really navigable at this point in history.
Jackson - LeFleur Bluff
Memphis - New London
A new city on the mississippi near the american border. - Newcastle
Biloxi (would have the same root, but probably butchered from the original Bilocci in a different manner) - Bilocci
Wherever the major Charleton Urban centre turns up - TBA
Birmingham, Alabama - New Manchester
Atlanta (on the border of Georgia and Indiana here) - Pinetree Crossing
An analogless centre near the mouth of the Apalachicola-Chattahoochee system (since Tallahassee is butterflied away) - Borderton
Tampa - Hillsborough
Jacksonville - New Falmouth
As an aside, there is an analogue at the mouth of the Apalachicola - Apalachicola!
Glen
Moderator
Houston - Jackson
Galveston - Laffitte Island
Beaumont - Georgetown
Dallas/Arlington/Fort Worth - New Dover
Shreveport - New Edinburgh
Little Rock - Petite Roche
A centre with no OTL analog near the top of the navigable Arkansas river - The Arkansas is not really navigable at this point in history.
Jackson - LeFleur Bluff
Memphis - New London
A new city on the mississippi near the american border. - Newcastle
Biloxi (would have the same root, but probably butchered from the original Bilocci in a different manner) - Bilocci
Wherever the major Charleton Urban centre turns up - TBA
Birmingham, Alabama - New Manchester
Atlanta (on the border of Georgia and Indiana here) - Pinetree Crossing
An analogless centre near the mouth of the Apalachicola-Chattahoochee system (since Tallahassee is butterflied away) - Borderton
Tampa - Hillsborough
Jacksonville - New Falmouth
As an aside, there is an analogue at the mouth of the Apalachicola - Apalachicola!
No comments on the names?
Attaboy?
Being more serious though, my only comment is I don't think that the two "New xxx" cities (Edinburgh/Dover/Manchester) are likely. When cities were named New ... it was because the town founders built a city they wanted to remind them of their hometown in England/Scotland/wherever. With a POD as late as this one, and with no knowledge of the OTL cities you are referring to, I doubt that any of them would be founded by first-generation British immigrants after the POD and I suspect they would probably all have been cities come your POD already. Thus, while I guess they might have a name change at some point, I'm not convinced that they would be renamed to echo British names like that, as those British cities will no longer mean anything to the people doing the naming.
As for the others I really couldn't comment, except to say that LeFleur Bluff really doesn't roll off the tongue, but then that shouldn't have any impact on whether it actually gets that name or not. There are plenty of places with names that don't roll off the tongue.
Glen
Moderator
Appreciate the comments!
Means "That a boy!" as a positive affirmation.
Being more serious though, my only comment is I don't think that the two "New xxx" cities (Edinburgh/Dover/Manchester) are likely. When cities were named New ... it was because the town founders built a city they wanted to remind them of their hometown in England/Scotland/wherever. With a POD as late as this one, and with no knowledge of the OTL cities you are referring to, I doubt that any of them would be founded by first-generation British immigrants after the POD and I suspect they would probably all have been cities come your POD already. Thus, while I guess they might have a name change at some point, I'm not convinced that they would be renamed to echo British names like that, as those British cities will no longer mean anything to the people doing the naming.[/QUOTE]
Very good points, which I agree with as principles and actually followed! Really the big problem is that those are actually 'future' cities that actually are about to be founded, and are not cities before the POD.
As a sneak preview....
The oldest is New Edinburgh, founded by Scottish descended gentlemen from the Red River Colony in Arkansas.
New Dover is about to be born, and is named due to being important for travel, but even more so for the white chalk cliff in the area!
New Manchester is probably the furthest in the future, and will be named for the same reason it was called Birmingham IOTL, because this is a very rare location where all the raw materials needed for steel-production occur together, and Manchester is one of the first 'industrial' cities.
Actually, I thought it sounded nice (just shows what I know!) - and in fact is the OTL name for this location before being called Jackson, and this is named after the father of an important tribal leader of Indiana!
Means "That a boy!" as a positive affirmation.
Being more serious though, my only comment is I don't think that the two "New xxx" cities (Edinburgh/Dover/Manchester) are likely. When cities were named New ... it was because the town founders built a city they wanted to remind them of their hometown in England/Scotland/wherever. With a POD as late as this one, and with no knowledge of the OTL cities you are referring to, I doubt that any of them would be founded by first-generation British immigrants after the POD and I suspect they would probably all have been cities come your POD already. Thus, while I guess they might have a name change at some point, I'm not convinced that they would be renamed to echo British names like that, as those British cities will no longer mean anything to the people doing the naming.[/QUOTE]
Very good points, which I agree with as principles and actually followed! Really the big problem is that those are actually 'future' cities that actually are about to be founded, and are not cities before the POD.
As a sneak preview....
The oldest is New Edinburgh, founded by Scottish descended gentlemen from the Red River Colony in Arkansas.
New Dover is about to be born, and is named due to being important for travel, but even more so for the white chalk cliff in the area!
New Manchester is probably the furthest in the future, and will be named for the same reason it was called Birmingham IOTL, because this is a very rare location where all the raw materials needed for steel-production occur together, and Manchester is one of the first 'industrial' cities.
Actually, I thought it sounded nice (just shows what I know!) - and in fact is the OTL name for this location before being called Jackson, and this is named after the father of an important tribal leader of Indiana!