Glen
That's a pain. The loyalist/Indian region are totally isolated from the royal navy and reinforcement. Going to make it markedly more difficult to support them.
Steve
Glen
That's a pain. The loyalist/Indian region are totally isolated from the royal navy and reinforcement. Going to make it markedly more difficult to support them.
Steve
Glen
Moderator
Some suggestions for Brazilian successor state flags from Trovador in the Flag Thread II thread.
I have some suggestions:
For Republic of Brazil, the Incofidência Mineira would be perfect, as (IIRC) that event occurred in your TL too.
It was a very republican and irredentist symbol - Brazil, IOTL, did not adopted it when it became independent because the red triangle on red with the "libertas quae sera tamen" motto was too "revolutionary" against Portugal and the Monarchy that Brazil became. I think that, in the context of your TL, the Armillar Sphere would be a rather "continuist" flag, too connected to the Portuguese symbolism given to Brazil, and would not have a lot of popular support.
The Latin motto in it reads "Libertas quae sera tamen", a verse of Virgil that translates to "Freedom, albeit late".
For Condeferation of the Equator, I tried something inspired in both the red-white-black of the abolitionists and the cross used in the OTL flag of the Confederation.
The seven stars are for the seven provinces that form it (Sergipe, Pernambuco, Rio Grande do Norte, Paraiba, Alagoas, Ceará and Piaui), as it is a Confederation.
For Bahia, I used the dove from the flag of Salvador and the traditional colour of Bahia (red, blue and white).
It's not very revolutionary, but clearly shows their republican and "fraternal"/"equalitary"(in the french revolutionary meanings) of the republic. Besides, most of the black political revolts, in this period, were inspired by Haiti(is there an Haiti in your TL?), so the red-blue colour scheme could have another inspiration too.
I did also a version with black rather than blue, just to show another option.
Hmmm, you may be right about the Armillary being too monarchial.
What about combining the Sun of May with the triangle?:
What about combining the Sun of May with the triangle?:
Glen
Moderator
The Anaconda Plan failed, mostly due to the porous border with the USA. Cotton was exported via eastern North Carolina or western Louisiana, where American merchants were more than willing to buy it. On the other hand, the border trade allowed Britain to support the Loyalists and allied Indians in the interior, though only with money and purchases from American munitions merchants made by the Loyalists, being unable to directly ship British troops through the USA. In addition, the rebels proved more effective at slipping through the British blockade (and once clear of regional waters, would often hoist American colors to avoid interdiction, and indeed many of the Confederationist merchants arranged for new registries as American ships). The Confederation found an able commodore for their small fleet in the form of George Farragut, the grandson of Minorcan immigrants, his father was a sailor and captain named Jorge Farragut. He made effective use of the Confederation Navy to support coastal fortresses during British raids, especially the naval yards in Pensacola, and also heavily armed riverine boats to protect the rivers important to Southern transportation.
In 1837, the British replaced the reticent British commander with a more aggressive leader, the man known as 'The Sea Wolf', Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane.
In 1837, the British replaced the reticent British commander with a more aggressive leader, the man known as 'The Sea Wolf', Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane.
Glen
Moderator
You are correct that the actual US presence in the interior for OTL Alaska and Yukon is nil at this time ITTL's history. They are along the coast, however, in small numbers (probably need to update that part sometime soon).
Glen
Moderator
The short answer is they are not. The good news for the Conservatives is that they don't have to worry about Texan encroachment further south of what they've already agreed to, and initially they do get some cash (remember Texas sold off some land to the US which went a far way to easing their own cash issues) and small arms, but once the Slaver Uprising gets into full swing, the Texans are otherwise occupied....though as arms manufacture ramps up in the South, the Mexicans may see some old items as new ones are being adopted by the Texans.
Bottom line, they are overstretched. Jackson is all in on the biggest game of Texas Hold Em in Alternate History. The question is will anyone call, and if so who?
Glen
Moderator
The strip was an error from the beginning. Butterflies (possibly related to the need to resurvey the USA-BSA border) caused it to be caught and since the British could just correct it administratively, they did.
Glen, keep the TL up. It's fantastic.
May I ask if Quebec's demographics are different being part of a greater Anglophone state in TTL?
Thank you for your kind words and patronage!
Quebec's demographics are different than OTL, but not necessarily the way you might think. Because Quebec went over to the US, there were initially less Anglos as the few British Loyalists there fled after 1783. The numbers of Francophones increased further with various waves of French emigrees from the French Revolution and Reign of Terror (though some of them were definitely more of the Deist rather than Catholic mindset). There have also been a fair influx of Scottish Coventers and Irish Catholics as well, if you want to call them Anglophones. While some Americans, most notably those in the employ of the Northwest Company or involved with the transport business, have moved into Quebec, at least at the present time Quebec is still strongly Francophone in nature. Now then, how long this can last in this greater Anglophone state is a matter of conjecture. I will also mention that much more of the upper echelons of Quebec society are bilingual, since if you want to do business or get into politics outside the state, English is still your best bet. Then again, plenty of the Anglophone upper echelons are also bilingual in French, so there you go!
Nice image, but there's two things wrong with it. One, the Union Jack isn't a battle flag, the ship should be flying a naval ensign. Two, the British ship is sinking
Glen
Moderator
Cross-post from the Flag Thread.
Then again again, the Minas Gerais symbol was for a local movement not a national one. Heck, if the US passed on the "Don't Tread On Me" flag, the Brazilians might pass on the Minas Gerais one....
Well, there's enough time and divergence that it's possible.
How incredible!
Good point! Had a blonde moment there....
This Bahia revolt is much more militant (think of it as TTL's Haiti in some ways). Also, the rebelling slaves had a strong muslim continent. Doves are definitely out, as are crosses.
Fair points. I shall consider the crosses for some of the flags.
That's a possibility.
Then again again, the Minas Gerais symbol was for a local movement not a national one. Heck, if the US passed on the "Don't Tread On Me" flag, the Brazilians might pass on the Minas Gerais one....
Well, there's enough time and divergence that it's possible.
How incredible!
@Confederation of the Equator: The actual flag of the Confederation of the Equator, as seem here:
I think, though, that a thin stripe across the flag would be interesting too, to symbolize the "equator" part.
The provinces are the actual states/provinces that formed the OTL(and TTL) Confederation plus Piaui, which seems to be inside it ITTL. As it's a confederation, it seems to me that the representation of the constituent states would be fair.
Good point! Had a blonde moment there....
@Bahia: I used the flag of Bahia's capital, Salvador city, as a base. The white dove is a nice symbol of liberty, equality and syncretism, which was very widespread among the african-brazilians in their mix of Catholicism and traditional religions. I agree that a "broken chains" symbol would be more obvious, but to show (the wish for) peace rather than (the regret of past) violence seems nicer to me.
There's also the actual Tailors Revolt flag, that happened in Bahia and had a very strong popular base:
It was republican, very, very anti-slavery and even against any kind of prejudice or segregation. "Equality" was their biggest political flag, attracting a lot of popular support. It was lead, though, by the intellectual elite of Bahia (masonic, of course, as every single Brazilian(and, in general, american) intellectual elite of those times), so I don't know if it's sufficiently related.
This Bahia revolt is much more militant (think of it as TTL's Haiti in some ways). Also, the rebelling slaves had a strong muslim continent. Doves are definitely out, as are crosses.
Fair points. I shall consider the crosses for some of the flags.
That's a possibility.
Glen
Moderator
The British change in military leadership led also to a new, bolder offensive against the rebels. Admiral Cochrane and Commodore Farragut dueled on the high seas and in the rivers, and while Farragut was good, he did not possess behind him the might of the Royal Navy. Several beachheads would be established from which the British regulars began to link up with Loyalists scattered throughout the colonies. The Sable Legion was one of the most ferocious land units, and would go on to play a legendary role in the North Carolina offensive.
However, many historians believe the most important event of the war was the Second Siege of New Orleans. Whereas other fortress ports had fallen to the British, it appeared that this most critical city, controlling the highway of the South, the Mississippi River, would hold. Consul Jackson again commanded, having returned after repulsing a raid on Pensacola earlier in the year. Reports state that the elder General was like a man possessed, appearing wherever the action was hottest to rally the Confederationists. Some still believe he might have turned away the British despite their advantages by sheer will and brilliance. However, in the heat of the battle, a bullet shattered Jackson's skull, striking him dead. The heart of the defenders seemed to go out of them, and New Orleans was lost. Perhaps as bad would be the loss of Jackson himself. He would be remembered for generations in Texas, South Carolina, and throughout the South. General Jack Toutant-Beauregard would be left to take command in the West following Jackson's demise.
However, many historians believe the most important event of the war was the Second Siege of New Orleans. Whereas other fortress ports had fallen to the British, it appeared that this most critical city, controlling the highway of the South, the Mississippi River, would hold. Consul Jackson again commanded, having returned after repulsing a raid on Pensacola earlier in the year. Reports state that the elder General was like a man possessed, appearing wherever the action was hottest to rally the Confederationists. Some still believe he might have turned away the British despite their advantages by sheer will and brilliance. However, in the heat of the battle, a bullet shattered Jackson's skull, striking him dead. The heart of the defenders seemed to go out of them, and New Orleans was lost. Perhaps as bad would be the loss of Jackson himself. He would be remembered for generations in Texas, South Carolina, and throughout the South. General Jack Toutant-Beauregard would be left to take command in the West following Jackson's demise.
Glen
Moderator
I try to post at least one update a day. Doesn't always work out that way, so sometimes I post two in a day to 'catch up'. I also try to respond to at least one comment every day. Basically the idea is to make certain we're giving you the reader a reason to come back day after day, as well as keeping this on the front page to attract even more readers.
I just wanted to say that I've been enjoying this thread a great deal. Well done!
Glen
Moderator
I thought I answered this before, but now I can't find said response!
Anyway, what I thought I had said is - While they are not directly supportable, the Loyalists can get supplies from US merchants. While the British Army can't send reinforcements for the Loyalists, they can send their agents with money into the US to buy things for the Loyalists and arrange for shipping. The Loyalists can pass some of that on to the Civilized Tribes to the south who they are allied with as well.
However, you may rest assured that the new British offensive will make a priority of hooking up with the Loyalists in the interior, especially with the fall of New Orleans allowing them to use the Mississippi (though still from some peril from Confederationists on some stretches), and plans for more incursions into the BSA.
Glen
Moderator
I like it better than the cross, but just not certain....I really like the Armillary!
Glen
Moderator
First, there is no DSA yet, only the BSA. There are quite a few differences in the various regions of the BSA. You may think of it as a mix of OTL Canada (sans Quebec, though the Cajuns will do in a pinch), Southern America (minus Virginia), and Caribbean, with just how much of each dependent on the particular region.
Opinion in the US is rather divided on the Southern issue - Imagine it much the way that the British viewed the question of the Confederacy during the American Civil War.
Glen
Moderator
Former Texas President Brown was fervently against alliance with the rebels in Southern America, and went to ground when the Jacksonians overthrew the Texas constitution in order make their foolhardy pact with the slavers of the British South to form the (from their perspective) unholy Confederation. Brown went underground to lead Anglophile Texans in armed resistance to Jacksonian tyranny. However, Brown soon realized that the Anglophile forces would need significant support to overthrow the Jackson regime in Texas. Brown was smuggled out of the country and set sail for Britain, where he entreated Parliament to support his forces in Texas. Negotiations went longer than Brown had hoped. His faction was willing to see Texas in the British Empire, but on condition that the British maintain their claims in New Mexico and California, and their right to 'responsible government'. Brown warned that if Britain did not take up the burden of Texas, then the Confederation would, and if their revolt failed, then America or even Mexico. Eventually a suitable arrangement was agreed to, and ships loaded with weapons and supplies headed out to the Texas coast to bolster the Anglophile Texans. On Brown's return to Texas, the word that greeted him was of the death of Jackson.
