French or Dutch Brazil

[Melvin Loh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Brazil#The_Iberian_Union_and_Dutch_incursions

OK, WI the attempted French Huguenot & Dutch settlements in Brazil of respectively 1555-67 (France Antarctique), 1612-14 (France Equinoxale), & 1630-54 (Recife) had managed to survive against the Portuguese assaults ? Could there have been separate Dutch & French enclaves which expanded into the interior within OTL Brazil, or would these entities have become gradually absorbed into Brazil anyhow ?

 

[nandalf]

The Dutch had good chance,if they have kept Price Mauricio de Nassau governing instad of calling him home they realy might have made it.He is still remebered and honored here in Recife today.He did plan for the long run.Recife(much of the old town) was planed by him.

 

[pompejus]

The Dutch had good chance,if they have kept Price Mauricio de Nassau governing instad of calling him home they realy might have made it.He is still remebered and honored here in Recife today.He did plan for the long run.Recife(much of the old town) was planed by him.

Preventing (or delaying) the first anglo Dutch war might help too as I believe Brazil was lost when the Dutch were distracted by the English. Or maybe the Dutch being better prepared for that war would help. I suspect that Dutch Brazil would end up becoming more or less a Dutch Guyana in Brazil.

 

[Gonzaga]

Preventing (or delaying) the first anglo Dutch war might help too as I believe Brazil was lost when the Dutch were distracted by the English. Or maybe the Dutch being better prepared for that war would help. I suspect that Dutch Brazil would end up becoming more or less a Dutch Guyana in Brazil.

The real problem with Dutch Brazil was the lack of reliable settlers. Dutch Brazil was basically a handful of Protestant and Jewish merchants, isolated in Recife, and some mercenary soldiers in coastal fortresses, surrounded by a countryside dominated by Luso-Brazilian landowners. In the end, they were expelled because those farmers didn't want to pay the debts they had with the Company, and they made without receive military help from Portugal. If you want a Dutch Brazil, you need to change the way the Dutch colonized it, and send realiable (and Protestant) settlers to occupy the lands of Pernambuco.

 

[nandalf]

I Totally agree with you Gonzaga,if the dutch had the intention of colonize instead of just exploit they might have made it,as i sad before,Nassau was an extremily competent administrator,he is a myth here in Pernambuco and he did plan the city and build a lot,we still have bridges that he built.Ha thought that Recife was somehow similar to Amsterdan due ti the many rivers crossing the city.Even today we call Recife:Cidade Maurícia(Mauricia city)in honor of him.

 

[pompejus]

Ok, so for Dutch Brazil we need good government in the form of Maurice of Nassau and more colonists. Maybe the Netherlands losing New Netherlands early could help, so the Dutch colonists who would be heading toward Brasil instead? Those Dutch colonists recognise the capacities of Maurice and demand that the WIC let him govern the colony?

 

[Minchandre]

Maybe the establishment of Jodensavanne as a "Jewish Region" and the distribution of pamphlets throughout Europe encouraging Jews to move there might help?

 

[Gonzaga]

Ok, so for Dutch Brazil we need good government in the form of Maurice of Nassau and more colonists. Maybe the Netherlands losing New Netherlands early could help, so the Dutch colonists who would be heading toward Brasil instead? Those Dutch colonists recognise the capacities of Maurice and demand that the WIC let him govern the colony?

The problem of Maurice was that he was considered a such good ruler because he was a terrible administrator. He used to pardon the debts of the farmers instead of tax them for the Company, and used the funds he had to build palaces, canals, churches, pay parties and whatever he thought it was necessary to please his people. It made everybody love him in Pernambuco, but he was hated in Amsterdam. He didn't have a merchantilist mind, he was a noble trying to live as a prince in Brazil, and that the Company couldn't accept.

Although I really like him as a historical figure, I think he was so tolerant to the Luso-Brazilian farmers that his presence made possible the later rebellion. He spoiled the farmers, and when the Company decided that they should replace him by someone who could make the colony create some profits and started to apply taxes they rebelled. So, probably if you want a Dutch Brazil you need a combination of three things:

a) A worst conquest war, making more Portuguese farmers migrate to Bahia and other places South of the São Francisco River. Maybe if Calabar (the mullatto who helped the Dutch against the Portuguese in the war) doesn't die in Porto Calvo in 1635 it could be reached. He was very helpful to the Dutch, because he knew the territory and how to fight the Portuguese and their native allies. Actually he was so essencial to the Dutch that after his death they didn't conquer a single town in Brazil, and only kept what they got before.

b) The Dutch send more colonists to the colony. They don't even need to be Dutch, only Protestants (IOTL they used even Catholic Italians and French as mercernaries, who during the farmers' rebellion joined the Portuguese). Maybe they could offer lands to Germans who were displaced during the 30 Years War? Also, as Pompejus said, if the Dutch lose New Netherlands sooner that might help. Also, they should send people who really know how to run a farm, instead of urban merchants. IOTL the Dutch of Recife bought from the administration of the colony the farms that were abandoned by their Portuguese owners who fled South. What they did with them? They sold it to Portuguese farmers who didn't leave Pernambuco, basically because what they wanted were profits, and they didn't have a clue of how to run a farm.

c) Portugal do not become independent in 1640. When it happened the Dutch started to use that diplomatic card, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Despite the fact that they still have conflicts in Asia, in the Atlantic the Dutch position against the Portuguese was weaker, and in face of the conflict with the Spanish they believed that it was more sensible to let Portugal receive back the lands they were facing difficulties to hold (Brazil and Angola) and so give the Portuguese more conditions to fight their common enemy, the Spanish. Also, there were some economic pressure from merchants (as fishermen) who needed the salt of Setúbal, produced in Portugal, and that was cheaper than other sources.
If Portugal stays in union with Spain then there is no diplomatic pressure to reach an agreement, and the Dutch would have no reason to not fight for Pernambuco.

 

[Andrelvis]

Great idea

Perhaps we could have the two French territories eventually join up through the interior, while the Dutch would expand a bit into the interior of northeast Brazil, but eventually have their expansion halted by bumping into French territory?

 

[Gonzaga]

Great idea

Perhaps we could have the two French territories eventually join up through the interior, while the Dutch would expand a bit into the interior of northeast Brazil, but eventually have their expansion halted by bumping into French territory?

They were too far away from each other, and there weren't easy and accessible ways through the countryside to connect them.

The French Brazil is even harder than the Dutch one, basically because the French attempts were much weaker. The colony in Rio didn't have official support, the settlers were composed basically by prisoners taken from the jails in exchange for going to South America, and they weren't trusted even by Coligny. Also, there was many conflicts between Catholics and Protestants there. The colony officially lasted until 1567, but by 1559 the majority of the French had already left the land or went to live among the Natives. Also, it was founded when Portugal still had a good military power and France was distracted by internal problems.

The Northern colony was also easily destroyed, the Portuguese only needed to send a small force from Pernambuco that sieged their fortress and they capitulated.

I think the French best chance would be not to try to found the colony in Maranhão in 1612 but do it later, during the Dutch conquest of Pernambuco. The Amazon territories would be cut from the rest of the Portuguese colonies in the South, and with the war going on in Pernambuco they would to busy there to try reconquer a land that was pretty much only forest by then.

Other idea would be having the French trying to stablish a colony in nowadays Santa Catarina, in South Brazil. It's a region that the Portuguese didn't pay much attention until the late 17th and early 18th centuries. It was in an area contested by both Portugal and Spain, and therefore no one of the countries tried to seriously colonize the land because they weren't sure to whom belonged the territory.