Juana of Portugal do not wanted marry and male Isabel would have to marry la Beltraneja like her brother was to do in OTL
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
I was kind of operating under the assumption that male Isabel had the same distaste for La Beltraneja as otl. And Joana of Portugal was considering marrying Richard III before Bosworth field happened.
He would still marry her for securing his crown. Still Portugal would NOT offer the extremely unwilling Joana as they supported la Beltraneja. If you do not want la Beltraneja as wife of male Isabella then you need to go with Juana of Aragon NOT Joana of Portugal
Sorry, but politics, alliances and other considerations made impossible the match who you wanted
Revising this then.
Juan III of Castile b 1451 m Juana of Aragon b 1455
Issue:
-Juan IV of Castile b 1472
-Infanta Isabella b 1475
-Infanta Juana b 1480
-Infante Alfonso b 1483
-Infanta Catalina b 1485
Fair enough, so it seems like Italian ruling duke wouldn't be out of the question.
Match with Ludovico would be unlikely even if he survives, as his father lost Savoy to the French.
Habsburg tree:
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1482) m. Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip IV/I (1478-1506) Duke of Burgundy, King of Castile (with Joanna), m. Joanna of Aragon (1479-1555)
2) Margaret (1480-1530) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias, b) Philibert II (1480-1522) Duke of Savoy
3) Francis I (1481-1547) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, King of Bohemia and Hungary 1526, m. a) Isabella of Lorraine (1494-1514), b) Anna of Bohemia and Hungary
[2] Children of Isabella of Austria and Sigismund the Old
[3] Daughter of Ferdinand VI and Isabella of Portugal
[4] Daughter of William IV of Bavaria and Margaret of Savoy
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1482) m. Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip IV/I (1478-1506) Duke of Burgundy, King of Castile (with Joanna), m. Joanna of Aragon (1479-1555)
1) Eleanor (1498-1558) m. Henry VIII (1491-1547) King of England
2) Charles (1500-1514) Duke of Burgundy
3) Isabella (1501-1556) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland
4) Ferdinand VI (1503-1564) King of Spain, Duke of Burgundy, m. a) Isabella of Portugal (1503-1539), b) Margaret of France (1523-1576)
5) Mary (1505-1558) m. a) Louis II (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary, b) James V (1512-1555) King of Scotland
6) Catherine (1507-1578) m. John II (1502-1557) King of Portugal
2) Margaret (1480-1530) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias, b) Philibert II (1480-1522) Duke of Savoy
1b) Philip III (1503-1531) Duke of Savoy, m. Beatrice of Portugal (1504-1538)
2b) Margaret (1506-1562) m. William IV (1493-1550) Duke of Bavaria
3b) Mary (1507-1508)
4b) Philibert III (1510-1568) Duke of Savoy, m. Isabella of Milan (1519-1576) [1]
3) Francis I (1481-1547) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, King of Bohemia and Hungary 1526, m. a) Isabella of Lorraine (1494-1514), b) Anna of Bohemia and Hungary
1b) Mary (1522-1525)
2b) Anna (1523-1561) m. Sigismund II (1518-1577) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland [2]
3b) Margaret (1525-1579) m. Severinus (1522-1563) Elector of Saxony
4b) Maximilian II (1527-1581) Holy Roman Emperor, King of Bohemia and Hungary, m. Joanna of Spain (1527-1589) [3]
5b) Francis (1528-1569) Archduke of Tyrol, m. Anna of Poland (1526-1599) [2]
6b) Mary (1530-1569) m. Francis III (1524-1577) Duke of Milan [1]
7b) Eleanor (1531-1588) m. Albert V (1530-1564) Duke of Bavaria [4]
8b) Joanna (1533-1597) m. William (1516-1592) Duke of Jülich-Cleves Berg
9b) Rudolf (1535)
[1] Children of Bona and Francesco Sforza[2] Children of Isabella of Austria and Sigismund the Old
[3] Daughter of Ferdinand VI and Isabella of Portugal
[4] Daughter of William IV of Bavaria and Margaret of Savoy
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Tudor tree:
Arthur Tudor (1486-1502) Prince of Wales m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1536) Princess of Wales
1) Arthur I (1502-1568) King of England m. a) Eleanor (1498-1558) Archduchess of Austria, b) Helena (1543-1608) Archduchess of Austria
2) Elizabeth (1502-1558) m. Charles V (1500-1558) Holy Roman Emperor, King of Spain
Arthur Tudor (1486-1502) Prince of Wales m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1536) Princess of Wales
1) Arthur I (1502-1568) King of England m. a) Eleanor (1498-1558) Archduchess of Austria, b) Helena (1543-1608) Archduchess of Austria
2) Elizabeth (1502-1558) m. Charles V (1500-1558) Holy Roman Emperor, King of Spain
Postumous Twins, Nice.
Great to see that Bess got with the best match possible.
Charles would be delighted with an English princess close to his age and Katherine would love for her daughter to be queen and empress
Perhaps in the near future! In the meantime, I believe @RedKing has a similar scenario
I like the matches but I highly doubt that Arthur would marry Helena (he and Eleanor almost definitely have great grandchildren by the time of her death)
Pretty unlikely who Arthur would remarry here, after 40 years of wedding to Eleanor. Helena was not healthy and wanted go in convent and would be much younger than Arthur’s children and is extremely unlikely who Eleanor would die at her OTL death date after leading a totally different life than her OTL one
Yeah, it’s the Children of Camelot, but that’s a dead timeline. Might remake it some day who knows?
The Queen from Cleves
So, this idea came about after a convo with @VVD0D95 and others, where we discussed how otl's Elizabeth I could marry Philip II of Spain, but I wanted to take things a bit further and spare some of the people near Henry from some of their sorrows. His marriage to Anne of Cleves being happier leads to this ttl (along with some other butterflies). As I worked on it, I noticed that my planned matches all had opposite religions marry, so I ended up trying to make that happen with the other children's matches. This led to Arch-Catholic Mary marrying Protestant Philip, Protestant Elizabeth marrying Arch-Catholic Philip II, Arch-Protestant Edward VI having an affair with the Catholic leaning Thomas Wriothesley's daughter, Protestant William marrying the Catholic Elisabeth of France and Mary, Queen of Scots and more Catholic leaning Catherine FitzRoy marrying the Protestant leading Edward Seymour (I assume that she is more religiously aligned to the Howards)
@VVD0D95 @FalconHonour @BlueFlowwer @The_Most_Happy @Kellan Sullivan @TheBeanieBaron @RedKing
Henry VIII (1491-1549)*1 m1) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1536), had affair w. Elizabeth “Bessie” Blount (1498-1540), m2) Anne Boleyn (1501-1536), m3) Jane Seymour (1508-1537), m4) Anne of Cleves (1515-1562)*2, had affair w. Catherine Howard (1524-1562)*3 Had Issue by all six
1. Henry, Duke of Cornwall (b. and d. 1511)
2. Mary, Duchess of Palatinate-Neuburg (1516-1561) m. Philip, Duke of Palatinate-Neuburg (1503-1551) in 1540 - Had Issue*4
2a) Heinrich, Elector Palatinate (b. 1541)
2b) Katharina (b. 1543)
2c) Miscarriage (1544)
2d) Maria (1547-1548)
2e) Ludwig, Duke of Palatinate-Neuburg (b. 1550)
3. Henry “FitzRoy”, Duke of Richmond and Somerset (1519-1536) m. Mary Howard (1519-1557) in 1533 - No Issue
4. Elizabeth, Queen of Spain (1533-1603) m. Philip II of Spain (1527-1598) in 1549 - Had Issue*5
4a) Fernando VI, King of Spain (b. 1550)
4b) Isabella (b. 1552)
4c) Miscarriage (1553)
4d) Carlos, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1556)
4e) Maria (b. and d. 1558)
4f) Juana (b. 1561)
4g) Stillborn Son (b. 1563)
4h) Felipe (b. 1565 d. 1569)
4i) Ana (b. 1567)
4j) Enrique, Duke of Milan (b. 1569)
5. Edward VI of England (1537-1558) had affair w. Katherine Wriothesley (b. 1539) - Had Issue*6
5a) Jane “FitzRoy” (b. 1557)
6. William III and II of England and Scotland (1540-1598) m1. Elisabeth of France (1545-1561) in 1559,*7 m2. Mary, Queen of Scots (1542-1598) in 1561*8 - Had Issue by both
6a) Elizabeth (b. and d. 1561) - Twin of Anne
6b) Anne (b. 1561) - Twin of Elizabeth
6c) Mary (b. 1562)
6d) Arthur I of Albion (b. 1564)
6e) Amelia (b. 1566)
6f) Margaret (b. 1568 d. 1569)
6g) Henry, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1571 d. 1580)
6h) James, Duke of Somerset and Ross (b. and d. 1572)
6i) William, Duke of Somerset and Ross (b. 1574)
6j) Sybille (b. 1576 d. 1578)
6k) Matilda (b. 1577)
7. Catherine “FitzRoy”, Marchioness of Hertford (1542-1604) m. Edward Seymour, 1st Marquess of Hertford (1539-1621) in 1560*9 - Had Issue
7a) Henry, Viscount Beauchamp (b. 1561 d. 1568)
7b) Mary (b. 1563)
7c) Stillborn Daughter (1564)
7d) William, 2nd Marquess of Hertford (b. 1566)
7e) Catherine (b. 1568)
7f) Stillborn Son (1569)
7g) Edward (b. and d. 1571)
7h) John, Baron Seymour (b. 1572)
7i) Miscarriage (1573)
7j) Jane (b. 1575)
7k) Thomas (b. 1578)
7l) Anne (b. 1580)
*1 Henry VIII lives a little longer ttl. Let's chalk it up to him having a bit better of a domestic life
*2 Henry sucks it up and consummates the marriage to Anne of Cleves on their wedding night. They manage to conceive and 9 months later, Anne gives birth to a Duke of York. Her pregnancy convinces Henry to stay married to her, and they end up having a harmonious relationship. They have no more children though. She is spared the cancer that killed her otl and dies in 1562 under the smallpox epidemic ironically like her husband's mistress.
*3 Henry has his affair with Catherine like otl, but ttl she remains his mistress and never becomes queen. Their relationship ends around the time she gives birth.
*4 With his marriage to Anne of Cleves being better, and with another child on the way, Henry allows Philip's suit and they marry
*5 A big one - England and Spain was trying for a stronger alliance in the 1540s and with Henry having two sons he engages Elizabeth to Philip for a Spanish alliance. He lives just long enough for the marriage to go through so arch-Protestant Edward VI doesn't get the chance to break it. Despite her Protestantism, Philip ends up falling for her, and Elizabeth helps turn Philip away from his worst Catholic impulses and the Dutch revolt is avoided for long enough that their second son can become ruler of Burgundy
*6 Edward lives longer ttl. Let's chalk it up to him having a brother so less pressure on him? He survives tb but is still weakened by it and dies in the 1558 flu epidemic. Before his death he has an affair with Thomas Wriothesley's daughter and they have an illegitimate daughter together
*7 Elisabeth is originally bethrothed to Edward VI like otl, and after his death, his bethrothal to Elisabeth of France is continued by his brother, William. Elisabeth sadly dies young after giving birth to twins
*8 After Francis' death, Mary returns to the British Isles, but bad weather means that her ship has to dock in England. Here she is "politely escorted" to London where she marries the widowed William III. The chance of uniting Scotland with England is too important to let William remain in widowhood. The marriage luckily turns into a lovematch for both parties despite the religious differences
*9 The ambitious Seymours strike again. Catherine becomes smitten with Edward, and he marries the king's illegitimate half sister in an attempt to raise his family's position again. While he doesn't become a duke like his father, his title is elevated to a marquessate
So, this idea came about after a convo with @VVD0D95 and others, where we discussed how otl's Elizabeth I could marry Philip II of Spain, but I wanted to take things a bit further and spare some of the people near Henry from some of their sorrows. His marriage to Anne of Cleves being happier leads to this ttl (along with some other butterflies). As I worked on it, I noticed that my planned matches all had opposite religions marry, so I ended up trying to make that happen with the other children's matches. This led to Arch-Catholic Mary marrying Protestant Philip, Protestant Elizabeth marrying Arch-Catholic Philip II, Arch-Protestant Edward VI having an affair with the Catholic leaning Thomas Wriothesley's daughter, Protestant William marrying the Catholic Elisabeth of France and Mary, Queen of Scots and more Catholic leaning Catherine FitzRoy marrying the Protestant leading Edward Seymour (I assume that she is more religiously aligned to the Howards)
@VVD0D95 @FalconHonour @BlueFlowwer @The_Most_Happy @Kellan Sullivan @TheBeanieBaron @RedKing
Henry VIII (1491-1549)*1 m1) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1536), had affair w. Elizabeth “Bessie” Blount (1498-1540), m2) Anne Boleyn (1501-1536), m3) Jane Seymour (1508-1537), m4) Anne of Cleves (1515-1562)*2, had affair w. Catherine Howard (1524-1562)*3 Had Issue by all six
1. Henry, Duke of Cornwall (b. and d. 1511)
2. Mary, Duchess of Palatinate-Neuburg (1516-1561) m. Philip, Duke of Palatinate-Neuburg (1503-1551) in 1540 - Had Issue*4
2a) Heinrich, Elector Palatinate (b. 1541)
2b) Katharina (b. 1543)
2c) Miscarriage (1544)
2d) Maria (1547-1548)
2e) Ludwig, Duke of Palatinate-Neuburg (b. 1550)
3. Henry “FitzRoy”, Duke of Richmond and Somerset (1519-1536) m. Mary Howard (1519-1557) in 1533 - No Issue
4. Elizabeth, Queen of Spain (1533-1603) m. Philip II of Spain (1527-1598) in 1549 - Had Issue*5
4a) Fernando VI, King of Spain (b. 1550)
4b) Isabella (b. 1552)
4c) Miscarriage (1553)
4d) Carlos, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1556)
4e) Maria (b. and d. 1558)
4f) Juana (b. 1561)
4g) Stillborn Son (b. 1563)
4h) Felipe (b. 1565 d. 1569)
4i) Ana (b. 1567)
4j) Enrique, Duke of Milan (b. 1569)
5. Edward VI of England (1537-1558) had affair w. Katherine Wriothesley (b. 1539) - Had Issue*6
5a) Jane “FitzRoy” (b. 1557)
6. William III and II of England and Scotland (1540-1598) m1. Elisabeth of France (1545-1561) in 1559,*7 m2. Mary, Queen of Scots (1542-1598) in 1561*8 - Had Issue by both
6a) Elizabeth (b. and d. 1561) - Twin of Anne
6b) Anne (b. 1561) - Twin of Elizabeth
6c) Mary (b. 1562)
6d) Arthur I of Albion (b. 1564)
6e) Amelia (b. 1566)
6f) Margaret (b. 1568 d. 1569)
6g) Henry, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1571 d. 1580)
6h) James, Duke of Somerset and Ross (b. and d. 1572)
6i) William, Duke of Somerset and Ross (b. 1574)
6j) Sybille (b. 1576 d. 1578)
6k) Matilda (b. 1577)
7. Catherine “FitzRoy”, Marchioness of Hertford (1542-1604) m. Edward Seymour, 1st Marquess of Hertford (1539-1621) in 1560*9 - Had Issue
7a) Henry, Viscount Beauchamp (b. 1561 d. 1568)
7b) Mary (b. 1563)
7c) Stillborn Daughter (1564)
7d) William, 2nd Marquess of Hertford (b. 1566)
7e) Catherine (b. 1568)
7f) Stillborn Son (1569)
7g) Edward (b. and d. 1571)
7h) John, Baron Seymour (b. 1572)
7i) Miscarriage (1573)
7j) Jane (b. 1575)
7k) Thomas (b. 1578)
7l) Anne (b. 1580)
*1 Henry VIII lives a little longer ttl. Let's chalk it up to him having a bit better of a domestic life
*2 Henry sucks it up and consummates the marriage to Anne of Cleves on their wedding night. They manage to conceive and 9 months later, Anne gives birth to a Duke of York. Her pregnancy convinces Henry to stay married to her, and they end up having a harmonious relationship. They have no more children though. She is spared the cancer that killed her otl and dies in 1562 under the smallpox epidemic ironically like her husband's mistress.
*3 Henry has his affair with Catherine like otl, but ttl she remains his mistress and never becomes queen. Their relationship ends around the time she gives birth.
*4 With his marriage to Anne of Cleves being better, and with another child on the way, Henry allows Philip's suit and they marry
*5 A big one - England and Spain was trying for a stronger alliance in the 1540s and with Henry having two sons he engages Elizabeth to Philip for a Spanish alliance. He lives just long enough for the marriage to go through so arch-Protestant Edward VI doesn't get the chance to break it. Despite her Protestantism, Philip ends up falling for her, and Elizabeth helps turn Philip away from his worst Catholic impulses and the Dutch revolt is avoided for long enough that their second son can become ruler of Burgundy
*6 Edward lives longer ttl. Let's chalk it up to him having a brother so less pressure on him? He survives tb but is still weakened by it and dies in the 1558 flu epidemic. Before his death he has an affair with Thomas Wriothesley's daughter and they have an illegitimate daughter together
*7 Elisabeth is originally bethrothed to Edward VI like otl, and after his death, his bethrothal to Elisabeth of France is continued by his brother, William. Elisabeth sadly dies young after giving birth to twins
*8 After Francis' death, Mary returns to the British Isles, but bad weather means that her ship has to dock in England. Here she is "politely escorted" to London where she marries the widowed William III. The chance of uniting Scotland with England is too important to let William remain in widowhood. The marriage luckily turns into a lovematch for both parties despite the religious differences
*9 The ambitious Seymours strike again. Catherine becomes smitten with Edward, and he marries the king's illegitimate half sister in an attempt to raise his family's position again. While he doesn't become a duke like his father, his title is elevated to a marquessate
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