Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
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There is still a Western Sahara, recognized by 45 countries and member of the African Union.
That little part is lately controlled by drones. As far as I know that buffer zone exist because of an agreement with UN.
You mean RASD? They are in Tindouf, Algeria. Not in Western Sahara.
Also they are only a member of the AU thanks to Gaddafi and Algeria's Petrodollars.
Crazy Boris
Banned
It’s still under SADR control and has about 35,000 people living there. the SADR might be largely based in Tindouf but they also use Tifariti as the de facto capital.
A de facto independent state is still an independent state, as long as they have some sort of sovereignty over territory. Stuff like recognition doesn’t really matter, if a country exists, then it exists, even if no one acknowledges it or if the prevailing opinion is to pretend otherwise.
Like I wrote they can claim to be independent, but they are in Algeria. Those 35000 are in camps near Tindouf. They don't control any territory in Western Sahara and there aren't any towns beyond the moroccan defence wall. Yes, there used to be locations like Tifariti where they organized some propaganda stunts but no one lives there. Since 2020 Morocco is actively patroling the zone with drones. Only UN forces are allowed to enter the area.
Crazy Boris
Banned
According to wiki, Tifariti itself has a population of 3,000, and houses a lot of SADR government buildings. There are settlements in that zone, they aren’t very big, but they are there (in addition to Tifariti, there’s Bir Lehlou, Agounit, Meharizze, Dougaj, Mijek, and Zug.) Morocco and the UN do have a presence there, but so does the SADR, who has almost their entire military force spread across this territory, and are effectively in control of everything East of the berm, which those other two aren’t, random drones and foreign peacekeepers don’t constitute actual control.
Morocco does claim this zone, just as the SADR claims all the Moroccan controlled parts of Western Sahara, but the claims don’t really impact who actually has what, the berm is effectively an international border.
Crazy Boris
Banned
Admittedly, the 3,000 figure is uncited, but Tifariti is an actual settlement that is under SADR control, and so are all those other towns I listed, you can see them all here, clearly in territory held by the Polisario Front, and look them all up and see photos of these towns. Why would these settlements not count? It's sparsely populated, but so is Wyoming, and no one is going to dispute the existence of that.
Yes and I don't deny that😀
But that is the actual situation on the ground. The situation changed especially in 2020. Polisario provoked Morocco and started attacks against the berm, but that backfired. Morocco expanded the berm south and secured the border with Mauretania. And like I wrote previously any non-UN vehicle that enters the area outside the berm is attacked by artillery or drones. You can look up the UN reports.
By the way I think we derailed the thread a bit.
2020 = Current Politics.
We have a simply lovely Chat Forum for all varieties of Current Political subjects.
Please use it.
The Greek Plan
Here's a concept from the 1780's, pushed forward by Catherine the Great. This idea concerned the Orthodox Christians under Ottoman rule, and sought to resolve the Eastern Question. The idea, which had already been the works for decades at that point, was to partition the Ottomans' European holdings between Russia and the Hapsburg Empire, along with seizing territory around Black and Caspian Seas for the former, while both would also take bites out of Poland. The islands of Peloponnese, Crete and Cyprus would also be given to the Republic of Venice.The most interesting goal of this plan was to recreate the Byzantine Empire in what is today Bulgaria, North Macedonia and most of Modern Greece. This Neo-Byzantium would, she hoped, be governed by her grandson Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, which would in turn grant Russia unrestricted access to the Mediterranean. The plan's implementation was largely masterminded by Prince Potemkin, who began pushing for the recreation of a Byzantine identity, including giving Greek names to newly-founded towns in what's today Ukraine, such as Odessa and Kherson. In May 1780, Catherine even arranged a secret meeting with Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II over the idea.
The Austro-Russian Alliance hoped to carry all this out, but with Joseph's death in 1790 and the Treaties of Jassy and Sistova, which barely granted the Austrians anything, the alliance and aspirations of a Neo-Byzantium both crumbled. With a certain revolution in France just a few years later, attentions turned westward anyway.
I have noticed that in the 1700s every Russian expansion plan, no matter where it is focused on, will always somehow include taking a massive bite out of poor Poland.
The Greek Plan
Here's a concept from the 1780's, pushed forward by Catherine the Great. This idea concerned the Orthodox Christians under Ottoman rule, and sought to resolve the Eastern Question. The idea, which had already been the works for decades at that point, was to partition the Ottomans' European holdings between Russia and the Hapsburg Empire, along with seizing territory around Black and Caspian Seas for the former, while both would also take bites out of Poland. The islands of Peloponnese, Crete and Cyprus would also be given to the Republic of Venice.
The most interesting goal of this plan was to recreate the Byzantine Empire in what is today Bulgaria, North Macedonia and most of Modern Greece. This Neo-Byzantium would, she hoped, be governed by her grandson Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, which would in turn grant Russia unrestricted access to the Mediterranean. The plan's implementation was largely masterminded by Prince Potemkin, who began pushing for the recreation of a Byzantine identity, including giving Greek names to newly-founded towns in what's today Ukraine, such as Odessa and Kherson. In May 1780, Catherine even arranged a secret meeting with Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II over the idea.
The Austro-Russian Alliance hoped to carry all this out, but with Joseph's death in 1790 and the Treaties of Jassy and Sistova, which barely granted the Austrians anything, the alliance and aspirations of a Neo-Byzantium both crumbled. With a certain revolution in France just a few years later, attentions turned westward anyway.
I am curious...did Stalin had ever plans for Italy ? Like its own Italy like they did in Germany?