Photos from Featherston's Confederacy/ TL-191

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Picture of Mormons being deported, ca. late 1940s.

During the Thomas Dewey and Irving Morrell administrations, the US began to kick all the Mormons out of Utah and send them to the Big Island of the Sandwich Islands. By the mid-1950s, Utah was devoid of Mormons and was re-admitted into the Union in the mid-1960s once its population was in the thousands. Big Island was given the nickname: Big Prison due to many suspected Mormon terrorists being sent away to Big Island into the 1980s. Many died along the way, and those who avoided being captured fled to South America, the largest amount settled in Venezuela. They promised to be good citizens in other South American nations and would not rebel. Heber Young resigned as Governor of Utah in response to the mass deportation, comparing the deportations to that of black Confederates in the CSA; members of the House and Senate (state and federal) resigned as well. Most Americans' views on the deportations were neutral at best or non-existent at worst, with memories of the Utah Troubles still fresh in their minds. That would be until the American-Venezuelan War (1979-89), in which the public became well aware of the atrocities committed by the mid-1980s when both the US government and the US-backed Democratic Republic of Venezuela committed attacks on the Mormon population under the pretenses of fighting terrorism and even before the war the Venezuelan government had captured suspected Mormon terrorists and sent them to Big Island. During the Leo Enos administration, the prison system in Big Island ended, and was admitted into the Sandwich Islands. Enos had apologized for the US's past and present crimes against the Mormon population and allowed Mormons to return to Utah, so long as they swore loyalty to the US government. As of 2023, Utah's Mormon population still hasn't regrown from its pre-Second Great War population. Many Americans called the deportation of the Mormons from Utah one of the worst things their nation had ever done.
 
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Picture of Mormons being deported, ca. late 1940s.

During the Thomas Dewey and Irving Morrell administrations, the US began to kick all the Mormons out of Utah and send them to the Big Island of the Sandwich Islands. By the mid-1950s, Utah was devoid of Mormons and was re-admitted into the Union in the mid-1960s once its population was in the thousands. Big Island was given the nickname: Big Prison due to many suspected Mormon terrorists being sent away to Big Island into the 1980s. Many died along the way, and those who avoided being captured fled to South America, the largest amount settled in Venezuela. They promised to be good citizens in other South American nations and would not rebel. Heber Young resigned as Governor of Utah in response to the mass deportation, comparing the deportations to that of black Confederates in the CSA; members of the House and Senate (state and federal) resigned as well. Most Americans' views on the deportations were neutral at best or non-existent at worst, with memories of the Utah Troubles still fresh in their minds. That would be until the American-Venezuelan War (1979-89), in which the public became well aware of the atrocities committed by the mid-1980s when both the US government and the US-backed Democratic Republic of Venezuela committed attacks on the Mormon population under the pretenses of fighting terrorism and even before the war the Venezuelan government had captured suspected Mormon terrorists and sent them to Big Island. During the Leo Enos administration, the prison system in Big Island ended, and was admitted into the Sandwich Islands. Enos had apologized for the US's past and present crimes against the Mormon population and allowed Mormons to return to Utah, so long as they swore loyalty to the US government. As of 2023, Utah's Mormon population still hasn't regrown from its pre-Second Great War population. Many Americans called the deportation of the Mormons from Utah one of the worst things their nation had ever done.
Heber Young was hated enough for beings a gentile collaborator but overseeing the deportation of his own people into essentially a big large island of innocent being contained and also responsible for thousands of death?

Heber Young better sleep well at night because he basically going to be the most hated figure in Mormon history
 
Heber Young was hated enough for beings a gentile collaborator but overseeing the deportation of his own people into essentially a big large island of innocent being contained and also responsible for thousands of death?

Heber Young better sleep well at night because he basically going to be the most hated figure in Mormon history
Heber Young opposed the deportation and tried to convince the US government to stop the deportation. However, Young resigned after his attempts at convincing the US government fell on death ears.
Later Mormon generations felt mixed about Young. Some respected Young for trying to keep Utah from rebelling and preventing mass deportation, while others said Young didn't try enough to save the Mormon people from being deported and even went as far as to blame him for Mormon terrorism in South America.
 
Write up for Mary Jane Enos’ side of the family (part 1).

“I am sure many of you know the story of my father [George Enos Sr.], who was killed in the Great War, but I imagine many of you don’t know that I was an infant when the Great War occurred, and I never knew him. I know friends who have a family and worry about losing their husbands, having children around my age during the Great War. The Democrats are campaigning to continue this war in Venezuela. That’s why I, a lifelong Democrat, am voting for my nephew [Leo Enos] on November 8th.”
Mary Jane Brown (née Enos) in an ad for Leo Enos’ 1988 election campaign.

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Picture of a Boston postcard, 1914.

In 1913, one year before the outbreak of the Great War, Mary Jane Enos was born, the youngest child of George Enos Sr. (1885-1917) and Sylvia Enos (1886-1939). Enos was an infant when the war started and a little kid when the war ended. Unfortunately, her father was killed shortly after the war ended. Because of this, she had no memories of her father. Both she and her older brother George Enos Jr. (1910-90) was sent to relatives in Connecticut in 1922, as Sylvia killed her husband’s murder: Roger Kimball.
Mary Jane Enos stayed with her mother and studied to become a typist. Along with George Jr., Mary Jane tried to stop her mother from being in a relationship with Ernie, a ghostwriter for her book: I Sank Roger Kimball. In 1939, Sylvia Enos' life was taken by Ernie.

In 1941, the Second Great War began. George Enos Jr. enlisted in the Navy after a British air raid that killed the crew of his fishing job. A couple of times, Mary Jane visited George’s wife: Connie (1910-80), to help raise Leo (1936-2005) and Stan (1934-2000).

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Aerial picture of a Confederate bombing raid over Boston.

During air raids, Mary Jane met a soldier who was on leave, a man named James Brown (1915-52). They started dating around mid-1941, and in 1942, James proposed to Mary Jane, which she accepted; they married later that week.
Around June 1944, while visiting her nephews, Mary Jane felt sick to her stomach. After a doctor’s check, Mary Jane learned she was pregnant with James’ child. After the war ended, and taking Connie’s advice, Mary Jane wrote Joseph P. Kennedy to get James discharged from the army. In August, James was discharged from the army, overjoyed at Mary Jane’s pregnancy. They both agreed that if was a boy, it would be named James Jr., and if it was a girl, they named it Sylvia, after Mary Jane’s mother. In March of 1945, Sylvia Enos Brown (1945-2009) was born.
In 1950, the Third Mexican War started (see this for more information: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...federacy-tl-191.185493/page-302#post-24038308), and James was in uniform once again. In 1951, after James was on leave, Mary Jane was pregnant with James' child; this time, it didn’t result in a miscarriage. Unfortunately, James didn’t live to meet his new child as he was killed during a battle. In May 1952, James Brown Jr. (1952-present) was born.
After the Third Mexican War, Mary Jane swore never to love again. She wasn’t active during Leo Enos’ political career before the election of 1988, where she and the Enos family was used to drive home how war destroys families. She voted for Leo in 1988 and 1992, although it wasn’t out of political affiliation but of family loyalty. In 1999 she died of natural causes.

James Brown Jr. is still alive by 2023, having one child: James Brown III (1978-present) and two grandchildren: Marie (2000-present) and Mark (2003-present).
As for Sylvia Enos Brown, well, that’s a story for another time.
 
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Write up for Mary Jane Enos’ side of the family (part 2).

“The fact that the Democrats and Republicans are resorting to attacks on my cousin [Sylvia Enos Brown] proves that they are desperate to win this election.”
Leo Enos in an interview with the New York Times, October 1988.

Sylvia Enos Brown was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to Mary Jane Brown (1913-99) and James Brown (1915-52). She grew up wanting to become a typist like her mother. Around the time when Brown was entering college, former Canadian provinces and territories were being admitted into the Union, one of the first being Manitoba. When the newly formed state government promised free tuition into their universities, Sylvia applied and was accepted to the University of Winnipeg.

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University of Winnipeg, 2023.

In Brown’s third year of college, she heard about a rally being held by the Canadian Independence Party (CIP), which was in its beginnings. Out of curiosity, Brown attended the rally and was surprised that she agreed with what the CIP was saying. After the rally, she met Alec Pomeroy (1936-2022), the leader of the CIP and son of the infamous terrorist: Mary McGregor Pomeroy (ca. 1907-1942).

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Flag of the Canadian Independence Party (1967-present).

The two started a cordial relationship, but it turned romantic in Brown’s final year of college. The relationship was a secret from most of the public, fearing that radicals would kill them. After graduation, Brown told her brother and mother that she’d stay in Manitoba because of her relationship with Pomeroy. While James Brown Jr. (1952-present) was against the relationship, Mary Jane accepted it.
Brown would show up beside Pomeroy in CIP rallies and meetings starting in 1967, which got some to call her “Canada’s First Lady” jokingly.
Around 1970, Sylvia felt sick to her stomach during a CIP rally in Victoria (renamed Roosevelt). After taking a trip to the doctor, she informed Pomeroy that she was pregnant, much to Pomeroy’s surprise and joy. They married in a quiet ceremony in Pomeroy’s native Rosenfeld. In 1971, Sylvia gave birth to their first child: Alison (1971-present). In 1976, Sylvia gave birth to twins: Jon (1976-present) and Peter (1976-present).
Despite this, the relationship was still a secret, and when the Pomeroy children were asked about their last name, they responded with “we're not related to those Pomeroys.”
In 1988, however, when Sylvia’s cousin, Leo Enos, was running for President, photos of Sylvia and Alec Pomeroy dating, their wedding, and their family portrait were leaked. To this day, it is unknown how the photos were leaked; some believe it was a group of Canadian radicals or even members of the CIP who had a grudge against Pomeroy. The Democrats and Republicans, who were falling behind in the polls against Enos, ran tv ads using the photos, even claiming that Enos knew about the relationship the entire time and planned to make Canada independent when elected to office. However, these didn’t do much to prevent Enos from winning the general election.
In 2009, Sylvia was killed in a car crash on a car drive to visit her grandchildren in British Colombia (renamed American Colombia).

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Picture of the car accident.

Over the years, conspiracy theories claimed that the accident wasn’t an accident, and Sylvia was killed by a radical Candian successionist group. However, it was later investigated that it was indeed an accident.
Leo Victor Enos, whose term ended months prior, attended the funeral and gave his respects to his late relative.
In 2022, Alec Pomeroy passed away after a brief fight with Covid-19.
As of 2023, Alec and Sylvia have five grandchildren; three from Alison, one from Jon, and one from Peter.
Peter is involved in the CIP, although he isn’t the Party Chairman. Jon and Alison are involved in US politics, albeit on different parties (Alison being a Republican and Jon being a Socialist). In the 2022 US midterms, Alison was elected to the House of Representatives, representing a seat in American Colombia, while Jon was elected Governor of Nova Scotia.
 
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Of course it Glep but compared with the lord Chad, Schnoz in a fusion dance

Absolute thanks you, BAR for being a bro 😎 and I hope that I’ve been able to gift you a great read on my post. Also I want to expand on the Utahn troubles as I wondered what happened and the affected by both the US and especially the Mormon religion in that decade of conflict, plus thank goodness for your support man.

Also what you love about my post? Was it the more you go down more radicalized the Mormons group get, Utah becoming state size Area 51 or other things you like
Seeing some Mormons become more radical here, for one. Wow, the Nephites went full Christo-actionist there. Like how Utah becomes more of an explosive training ground. Wonder how that bodes with the non-Mormon citizens living there?
 
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Thank you for your feedback to my feedback! Can't wait to see if Admiral von Spee's fleet makes it back to Germany or not ITTL.
Haven't decided on his fate a la head canon, but I want to be sure that his potential continued survival doesn't create too many butterflies to the point that I'm unable to explain in a knowledgeable and plausible manner.

Oh, and how many ships did the CSA bring in to change the Battle of Coronel in the Entente's favor?
I can't give an official number (I don't know much of anything about naval ships and all things related to it), but what I can say is that I imagine the Confederate Pacific Fleet getting smaller and smaller, biting more than they can chew. Even when the Second Great War occurs, the Confederate Navy (in the Pacific) never regains its former Pre-FGW strength.
 

kernel

Gone Fishin'
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German Eastern Expeditionary Corps in the 1950s. Postwar devastation in Russia set the stage for socialist uprisings throughout the former Czarist empire, reminiscent of similar revolutions almost 40 years earlier. An international force made up of various European units and commanded by German general Heinz Guderian was sent to ensure that socialists did not come to power in Russia. They were ultimately unsuccessful, and in 1957 the Red Banner would fly from Moscow to Kamchatka.
 
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German Eastern Expeditionary Corps in the 1950s. Postwar devastation in Russia set the stage for socialist uprisings throughout the former Czarist empire, reminiscent of similar revolutions almost 40 years earlier. An international force made up of various European units and commanded by German general Heinz Guderian was sent to ensure that socialists did not come to power in Russia. They were ultimately unsuccessful, and in 1957 the Red Banner would fly from Moscow to Kamchatka.
Glad to have you back.
 
The German Freedomite Party (DFP) is a German political party founded by Georg Otto Dietrich. Headquartered in Dresden, Germany, Dietrich originally founded it as the World Union for Planned Economic National Freedom (WUPENF) in 1958, a name to denote favor to state ownership of property, a year later—it was renamed the German Freedomite Party in order to attract 'maximum media attention'. The party is based largely upon the ideals and policies of Jake Featherston's Freedom Party in the Confederacy during the Freedomite era. It espoused Population Reduction denial.
 

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Seeing some Mormons become more radical here, for one. Wow, the Nephites went full Christo-actionist there. Like how Utah becomes more of an explosive training ground.
Fun fact: Nephites Legionnaires were actually based off numerous groups. One namely the Hyberborea with the Ancient people, nephites survive as white pure race who will liberate their homeland, UDA who targeted Catholics civilians during the troubles, and of course ISIS who radical extreme mormonism that make the radical and more feared group in Utahn history.

After finishing the post, I more leaning toward that they are more similar to the also bizarrely belief yet horrible group in Croatia, Ustase who committed terrorism, massacre against civilians and believed in Germanic Gothic lineage who are the Super catholic. If the Second Great War ended with Entente victory and NL take control in Utah them I think that we should look at Croatia in WW2 to see what hell they going to unleash in Utah BAR.

Also I love the idea of US military using Utah as an military training ground even in the Utah troubles
Wonder how that bodes with the non-Mormon citizens living there.
Can expand that’s please to let me understand the question
 
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Okay, I got to admit that the portrayal of Mormons in TL-191 is among one of my most displeasing things from the novels.

I never liked the idea of the Mormons of being expy-terrorists. It's too on the nose that they're based off of 21st century suicide bombers from the Middle East, among other things.

I remember reading about them the first time and the impression I got is that Turtledove treats them as a monolith who just always rebel (because the plot demands it) and the U.S. government always choosing the more difficult route to peace (perhaps their perception is justified?). Granted, you have cooler heads that prevail, but instead of the peace being kept during SGW...oops! You have the Mormons rebelling because fourth time's the charm, I suppose.

A more reasonable portrayal of the Mormons in TL-191 would be having the vast majority of them moving out of Utah (way before either FGW or SGW) where they can practice their faith in peace. Sure, you can have a few radicals giving the U.S. a hard time, but it just gets tired reading about a group of people who act more like machines than actual people with nuance and decent intelligence who want peace in their lives.

I have similar issues with the British Canadians, too. I can see Arthur MacGregor being an outlier, but it just gets so stupid with Mary and her family.
 
Okay, I got to admit that the portrayal of Mormons in TL-191 is among one of my most displeasing things from the novels.

I never liked the idea of the Mormons of being expy-terrorists. It's too on the nose that they're based off of 21st century suicide bombers from the Middle East, among other things.

I remember reading about them the first time and the impression I got is that Turtledove treats them as a monolith who just always rebel (because the plot demands it) and the U.S. government always choosing the more difficult route to peace (perhaps their perception is justified?). Granted, you have cooler heads that prevail, but instead of the peace being kept during SGW...oops! You have the Mormons rebelling because fourth time's the charm, I suppose.

A more reasonable portrayal of the Mormons in TL-191 would be having the vast majority of them moving out of Utah (way before either FGW or SGW) where they can practice their faith in peace. Sure, you can have a few radicals giving the U.S. a hard time, but it just gets tired reading about a group of people who act more like machines than actual people with nuance and decent intelligence who want peace in their lives.

I have similar issues with the British Canadians, too. I can see Arthur MacGregor being an outlier, but it just gets so stupid with Mary and her family.
I think of Turtledove doing a mishmash with the more Mormons being portrayed as similar to the IRA in the troubles but later for portraying them as terrorist when do US invades Afghanistan and Iraq Show how desperate they are.

And honestly, can I have the same thought of why the Mormons not just move out of Utah because of how do US treat them? How about to go to Mexico, Canada or hell maybe even CSA because it’s better than US occupational forces breaking down your door to arrested you for some bullshit charges.

Mormon were kind of like a nomad people similar to Romani and Jews in Europe to get out of place that persecute them. Eastern New York. Illinois, Missouri and finally settle in Utah were they were in Mexican territory, hell they were planning to move Texas and British Columbia before they finally being all right in staying Utah.

I kind of want to expand the idea of the Mormons in to Southern victory as I feel like it, the most unexplored part of the series and I have some ideas that are cooking up in this thread
 
I have similar issues with the British Canadians, too. I can see Arthur MacGregor being an outlier, but it just gets so stupid with Mary and her family.
Harry built up that Mary would be against the US; I mean, there was a line that said that Mary would kill every American in Canada if it were up to her in the Great War books.
 
I think of Turtledove doing a mishmash with the more Mormons being portrayed as similar to the IRA in the troubles but later for portraying them as terrorist when do US invades Afghanistan and Iraq Show how desperate they are.
That and the fact that the last couple of books were written during the height of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars.
 
Oh, those living there seeing nukes being detonated in their back yard, including those of Mormons who stayed in Utah.
Oh okay well first of all, Most of the Mormon move into Antipodes countries and the other were deported to the Sandwich Island, the leftover mormon in Utah were either escaped terrorist like JF and NL or change their identities to be hidden along the gentile outside of Militarized Utah.

Many border state outside of Utah were advised to not let civilians go to or even fly over Utah, because of the danger of military equipment, and potential sabotage by Japanese spies. But yes, there are many cases of civilian seeing strange military activity in Utah
 
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