Cold War alternative mini-scenarios thread
- Thread starter Monk78
- Start date
Brazil wanted to invade Uruguay in the 70s (Operation Thirty Hours) so this could be the trigger to a conflict between the two
Vietnam with nuclear weapons will open a can of worms. That would plunge East Asia into another arms race. Then there goes the question who provided nuclear material, design, and expertise to the Vietnamese. The blame would go to the Soviets. That would mean the Vietnamese can also target U-Thapao Air Base in Thailand and Clark and Subic in the Philippines.
A Thai-Vietnamese War did technically occur with border clashes as KPNLF fighters were chased by the Vietnamese over in the border. The Vietnamese found their own "Vietnam War" in Cambodia as they were there for another decade. I think the Thais did not have the resources to fight a protracted war as well. If ever there was a Thai-Vietnamese War over Cambodia, it would probably end in a stalemate with heavy casualties on both sides.
- Instead of partitioning Palestine, both the US and the USSR force the Zionists to accept a unitary state with the Arab Palestinians. A compromise is established where the US agrees to station troops in Palestine in order to keep the peace between the Jews and the Arabs and to establish a working government between the two factions.
- Siad Barre reluctantly agrees to a Soviet-mediated ceasefire in the Ogaden War and reluctantly accepts the offer to form a united federation of socialist states around the Red Sea with Ethiopia and South Yemen. How that goes depends on what happens next.
- Britain forces the northern Sudanese elites to get along with the southern Sudanese elites and creates a federal government before it completely leaves the colony in 1956.
- Winston Churchill attempts to restore the Egyptian monarchy against the Arab nationalist government in Cairo.
- Eisenhower refuses to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran and forces Britain to compromise with the Iranians.
- British does not join Northern and Southern Nigeria together and lets them be their own countries.
- France joins Lebanon to Syria.
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Solidarity (Polish trade union) - Wikipedia
How will soviets respond ? let the polish communists handle it on its own ? Or a 1968 style WP invasion?
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Pangur
Donor
Its going to have to be handed back but the crew stay if they want. NATO takes its time about handing back and has a good look at the ship
1980s red scare, it would strangles a lot OTL pop culture movies or music eventually, more patriotism movie and music came out
Potential POD:
1. May 19 communist terriost bombed the Statue of Liberty , or killed the President . ( OTL They bombed the Capital building in 1983. No one hurt and get killed, and it was forgotten in history)
2. Soviet invaded Poland in 1981.
3. East German army shoot someone at Berlin Wall, it caused the fourth Berlin crisis, WW3 be prevented in the end, but the aftermath is worse than OTL 1983 KML007 and Able Archer.
Or other POD? Anyone else?
Potential POD:
1. May 19 communist terriost bombed the Statue of Liberty , or killed the President . ( OTL They bombed the Capital building in 1983. No one hurt and get killed, and it was forgotten in history)
2. Soviet invaded Poland in 1981.
3. East German army shoot someone at Berlin Wall, it caused the fourth Berlin crisis, WW3 be prevented in the end, but the aftermath is worse than OTL 1983 KML007 and Able Archer.
Or other POD? Anyone else?
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That's the scenario of Protect & Survive. One of the first steps of the countdown to WWIII by 1984.
Yeah, When I was writing this which reminded that excellent,Intimidating TL. Basically is WW3 out of the picture but here comes the red scare
And I wonder how could make East German unified the West and there's no WW3 and any invasion operation?
Protect & Survive has several PODs:
(1) Protesters in East Berlin are shot by East German border guards. One RPG lands on the Western side (First minor POD)
(2) Tu-95s based in Cuba enter U.S. territorial waters near Florida before the Orange Bowl Game
(3) World War III breaking out in February 1984. The conventional battle in Germany and China lasts less than a week before the event known as The Exchange wherein the U.S. commander mistaken a large conventional explosion on an ammo depot (which can still produce a mushroom cloud) as a Soviet tactical nuclear weapon. He therefore launches U.S. tactical nuclear weapons to be fired. Pandora's Box opens.
Actually, don't you think OTL like ASB? Imagine that you tell ATL people, in our timeline, a man who like Gandhi became the leader of the Soviet Union, next, Berlin Wall fell, a whole Eastern bloc collapsed peacefully in a year! Next, German reunification, next peaceful dissolution of the Soviet Union…
They would say this “What if ”is the most unrealistic version
Gandhi? You mean Gorbachev.
In many ways, OTL is ASB to us. The more for people in the ATL where let's say the nukes flew in 1983 because Stansilav Petrov wasn't the officer in charge? Or in a timeline where a convention World War III broke out in 1989 like in World in Conflict (A POD implying where Gorby isn't the President of the USSR therefore no glasnost and perestroika).
But for people in the ATL universe, they would be surprised that China is the next opponent in the later years of the 21st century. Whereas in 1983-84, both China and the U.S. were allies to contain the Soviet Union.
I know nothing about Thailand's party, but I doubt it had the…horrific self-discipline of the Vietnamese party. I assume, therefore, that Thailand's party will be ideosyncratically expressive like the KR were. In part the hyperrationality of the VWP is related to it being essentially a liberal bourgeois dictatorial party. In part it is due to the success of French colonisation producing a workers movement that has a labourist streak—imagine the VWP as a revolutionary labourism which is nationalist. Lang labour writ large. I assume, therefore, that the VWP and Kampuchean People's Party intervenes into Thailand to "sort their shit out for them." between going to war with China and purging the southern Petits-bourgeois economy.
Now if that isn't a set up for all the ways Indonesian Communism can go wrong I don't know what is. But the better question is: how can Indonesian Communism go right.
1979. The Soviet Union decides to sponsor the Rajneeshee movement's MDMA supply network. Despite this being seen as a hobby horse by the party, like the RAF or other "games," it turns out the Rajneeshees are really fucking good at dealing low priced MDMA supplied in bulk from Soviet pharmacy. While the Miners Strike fails as historical, London's freeways are utterly disrupted.
BUT THE CONSEQUENCES WERE HORRIFIC. With MDMA flooding the international dance scene BPM stayed under 140, breakbeats died in mainstream dance culture, and only in horrible backwaters of industrial death did people up the BPM to attempt to make up for the lack of drugs. The Rotterdam Sound is known as major chords around 130 BPM.
Team A: We push Euphorics cheaply throughout a culture that has massive economic decline. LA may have been flooded with guns by […] but it was flooded with eccy by the Soviet Union. Gang culture…changed…that night.
A Soviet Union supporting team A strategies would view the international revolution as a proletarian one, where the Soviet Union itself was a necessarily ossified defensive position trying to restart a war of manoeuvre to relieve the siege…
Team B: ICE. LOTS OF ICE. MORE ICE THAN CRACK.
In 1980 a polish military mutiny occurs capturing a couple of cities.Solidarity (Polish trade union) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
How will soviets respond ? let the polish communists handle it on its own ? Or a 1968 style WP invasion?
1968 was an attack on a fraternal party that had deviated. A mass mutiny by multiple divisions would be against the party. As such the Polish Government would *invite* soviet assistance in.
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ObWI: Imre Nagy gets balls. Instead of fleeing to the Yugoslav Embassy he flees to Cspel. Despite dying of a self-inflicted pistol shot early, his body is photographed with rifle injuries and armed with a submachine gun. Historiography of '56 focuses far more on workers movements than Nagy's government as a result.
(Some left Hungarian communists died in action. They tended to be the ones most supportive of the workplace councils.)
yours,
Sam R.