The eagle's left head

A single raider would come back to report the fate the Cretans who had ambushed them had dealt to the rest. Not every baron would understand the lesson from its first iteration. Some would go complain to Palermo in turn when the stradioti did not just limit themselves to beating back the raids but returned them with interest. But it would be learned sooner rather than later. Asia Minor and Crete had been a rather harsher school than Sicily in the petty warfare business after all...
Seeing the breakdown of Frederick's realm with the Barons warring against the stradioti is very interesting, and I don't think Sicily would fare well after Frederick's death, especially when someone as powerful as Alexandros and his family with just as a powerful claim to the throne is there. I would've thought the barons would be more wary of the Vatatzes especially when they have been shown to be powerful and run their lands differently from them.
Ioannis Vatatzes had sailed out from Constantinople in the end of April. His fleet, reinforced by a number of hired merchant galleys had not been particularly fast as it treaded south and made a stop to support Ephesus which had come under Turkish attack. It was at Ephesus that Ioannis had received the news that Benedetto Zaccaria was attacking Chios. For whom the old Genoese was working for, was somewhat fuzzy on paper, he had been made admiral by Philip IV of France two years earlier, but all to clear in practice, he was out to grab territory for himself. But if Chios, one of the richest islands in the Aegean was to fall to a Genoese adventurer why not fall to an ambitious young despot instead? And thus the Sicilians instead of sailing west had sailed north again. Zaccaria's small fleet, taken by surprise had been dispersed and the Chians had thrown open their gates for Vatatzes who had followed his takeover of Chios by seizing the nearly deserted island of Kos and Samos settling Asia Minor refugees on both. Back in Constantinople Andronicus unable to do anything without a fleet and with bigger troubles close to home, where Michael IX had been defeated by Theodore Svetoslav of Bulgaria had pretended to accept Ioannis excuses granting Ioannis Chios as a fief for two years. Soon the two years would be made ten years...
Now that is interesting, the Genoese are much less powerful ittl and you've basically snuffed out an important genoese family in the crib. I have no doubt that the Genoese would still be a powerful force but they would be much less powerful ittl at the least. Also its nice to see the Vatatzes continue to expand their holdings, the Aegean is much closer to them than first assumed especially when they get Morea.
Andravida, Principality of Achaea, July 1304

The news of Charles II making the principality of Achaea the dowry of his youngest daughter had not been taken well by princess Isabella and her third husband Philip of Savoy. Thus Philip had come with a plan. If he defeated the Greeks of Mystra and recovered their territory, the barons of the principality would come firmly on his side and make his position on the throne unassailable, hopefully even Charles would change his mind at news of his success after all he couldn't be very happy about giving the principality to Vatatzes. But warring against the imperial army in Mystra needed money. So taxation within the principality had sharply gone up to finance Philip's campaign to be. When the barons had balked at this Philip had been forced to call a parliament in Andravida.Of course said parliament did nothing to assuage the Greek peasantry which crushed by taxes and baronial demands kept grumbling...
I wonder what will happen here. The peasantry seems like they would revolt and we'd prob see the Vatatzes come in to take control of the situation since its their land. This basically would make the Palailogian generals there redundant, and I think Alexandros and co. would like to take a more diplomatic route for Morea. I think as Andronikus' state breaks down they'll expand North and South and take over more of Old Hellas but other than that idk how it'd go down.
Robert of Anjou was back in Syracuse, this time as a guest accompanying his sister on behalf of his father. The marriage of the 24 year old Ioannis Doukas Vatatzes and Maria of Anjou, 10 years his junior would take place in Christmas eve...
I love how in spite of Alexandros being the servant of many masters he and his family are basically royalty. His family is basically getting the same treatment as Frederick with the marrying of Ioannis with Maria, and his family is given Morea while his son conquers Chios, and is one of the expanding powers in the region. I am definitely hyped by what is to come, especially when the Empire breaks down and we see basically every balkan have a crack at making an empire, while the Hungarians try to take over naples.
 
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I wonder how the Hospitaller Conquest of Rhodes will go in a few years, seeing as how they were kind of inspired by the conquest of Chios
 
Seeing the breakdown of Frederick's realm with the Barons warring against the stradioti is very interesting, and I don't think Sicily would fare well after Frederick's death, especially when someone as powerful as Alexandros and his family with just as a powerful claim to the throne is there. I would've thought the barons would be more wary of the Vatatzes especially when they have been shown to be powerful and run their lands differently from them.

Now that is interesting, the Genoese are much less powerful ittl and you've basically snuffed out an important genoese family in the crib. I have no doubt that the Genoese would still be a powerful force but they would be much less powerful ittl at the least. Also its nice to see the Vatatzes continue to expand their holdings, the Aegean is much closer to them than first assumed especially when they get Morea.

I wonder what will happen here. The peasantry seems like they would revolt and we'd prob see the Vatatzes come in to take control of the situation since its their land. This basically would make the Palailogian generals there redundant, and I think Alexandros and co. would like to take a more diplomatic route for Morea. I think as Andronikus' state breaks down they'll expand North and South and take over more of Old Hellas but other than that idk how it'd go down.

I love how in spite of Alexandros being the servant of many masters he and his family are basically royalty. His family is basically getting the same treatment as Frederick with the marrying of Ioannis with Maria, and his family is given Morea while his son conquers Chios, and is one of the expanding powers in the region. I am definitely hyped by what is to come, especially when the Empire breaks down and we see basically every balkan have a crack at making an empire, while the Hungarians try to take over naples.
Assuming they still get the Hungarian throne, which might not necessarily be the same given how much changes there are in this timeline. But it’s many years in otl before the Hungarian Angevins make a play for Naples. More importantly, would the Hungarian branch even be sidelined here if the situation in Naples is settled?
 
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Assuming they still get the Hungarian throne, which might not necessarily be the same given how much changes there are in this timeline. But it’s many years in otl before the Hungarian Angevins make a play for Naples. More importantly, would the Hungarian branch even be sidelined here if the situation in Naples is settled?
I do think that it is possible for the Hungarians to not be able to claim Naples at all, but if they do they could leverage the popes to get to naples and fight the Vatatzes. I'd like for the Hungarian kings to do it at least once tho, it would be satisfying to see Ionias Vatatzes using harassment tactics to just cut the army down to size then engage them.
I wonder how the Hospitaller Conquest of Rhodes will go in a few years, seeing as how they were kind of inspired by the conquest of Chios
I do wonder too, but hopefully we see the Vatatzes conquer the islands which are in Latin hands.
 
Zaccaria's small fleet, taken by surprise had been dispersed and the Chians had thrown open their gates for Vatatzes who had followed his takeover of Chios by seizing the nearly deserted island of Kos and Samos settling Asia Minor refugees on both
What about Phocaea though?

If Ioannis left a few ships to secure his newest holdings, then the Despotate squadron can project power and protect the other islands of the Empire. Andrea Morisco was given the lordship of Rhodes, Karpathos and Kasos and he was just a pirate with two galleys under his command. The dearth of imperial warships was that severe. Even if there is a very modest vatatzean squadron around, the island communities will ask them for protection since Constantinople cannot offer aid. What other choice do the islanders have? It is worth mentioning that Martino Zaccaria was supposed to be able to field 100 cavalry and 1000 infantry - another testament of the wealth of Chios.
Lastly, islands such as Lesvos and Rhodes must have received refugees from Asia Minor - the very same that basically worshipped John III Vatatzes.

The islands have also experienced sailors to crew the galleys. In the centuries of genoese rule in Chios we observe that most of the crews of the local ships were local Greeks. The same applies to Rhodes. Moreover, Rhodes is a major wine export and perhaps the second richest island after Chios and since 1300 was being devastated by Mesut, the Bey of Menteshe.

It seems to me that the official and unofficial rule of the Despotate will quickly extend in the Aegean, simply due to the absolutely power vacuum. Ephesos has been saved from Menteshe already and I guess has a Despotate garrison. A two dozen galley fleet from Chios has the same numbers to the fleet of Albert of Schwarzburg - enough to defeat the Aydin and Menteshe fleets.


Andravida, Principality of Achaea, July 1304

I know you stated that Naples didn't give suzerainty of the Palatinate of Cephalonia to Ioannis but hear me out. I read in the "Latins in the East" the following passage:

When, a little later, old Count Richard was killed by one of his own knights, whom he had struck on the head with a stick while sitting on the Bench at Glarentza, his son John I. had to purchase his investiture with his islands from his suzerain, the Prince of Achaia, by a large present of money. Not long afterwards he gave Philip a heavy bribe to decide in his favour an action brought against him in the High Court of Achaia by his stepmother, the Lady of Akova, for restitution of her late husband's personal property, valued at ;£'44,8oo. The proud Nicholas de St Omer, however, espoused the cause of the lady, more from contempt and dislike for the venal prince than from a desire to punish the violence of his brother-in-law, the new Count of Cephalonia. Again, Philip had to suppress his indignation at the insolence of the greatest baron in the land, who boasted that he had royal blood in his veins, who was cousin of the Duke of Athens, and connected by feudal ties with the leading Achaian nobles; a compromise was made, by which the Lady of Akova was to receive one-fifth of the amount claimed.

Giovanni Orsini had to deal with a greedy Philip and even more rapacious Nicolas de St Omer. Is there a chance that considering OTL, the TTL suzerainty of the County Palatine to be murky? Moreover, considering that in TTL Philip needs St Omer considerably more, is there a chance that he rules in his favor?

A concentrated effort by the Frankish lords is bad news for the Greeks at Laconia. The Franks can vastly outnumber them and they do not have any hope for relief from Constantinople. Michael has lost his army against the Bulgarians and he and Andronikos have to sell their jewellery to pay the ransoms. The only power that can assist the Greeks is Vatatzes and Son ™.

"Despota,
Mystras calls for aid"

"And Syracuse shall answer. Muster the Cretans!"
 
As Lascaris once put as a premise for the TL, the Vatatzes seem "just at the right place at the right time" ...

I mean, eastern Sicily, Calabria, Achaea, now the Aegean sea... They are really having a very good time. I Ioannis, Alexandros has a capable and adult successor, so no regency interlude and internal stability for three or four decades more at least, unless you pull a Black Prince and a Richard II down the line.
I just wonder, and fear, how long this string of fortunes and providence befalling on House Vatatzes will last.
 
Giovanni Orsini had to deal with a greedy Philip and even more rapacious Nicolas de St Omer. Is there a chance that considering OTL, the TTL suzerainty of the County Palatine to be murky? Moreover, considering that in TTL Philip needs St Omer considerably more, is there a chance that he rules in his favor?

A concentrated effort by the Frankish lords is bad news for the Greeks at Laconia. The Franks can vastly outnumber them and they do not have any hope for relief from Constantinople. Michael has lost his army against the Bulgarians and he and Andronikos have to sell their jewellery to pay the ransoms. The only power that can assist the Greeks is Vatatzes and Son ™.

"Despota,
Mystras calls for aid"

"And Syracuse shall answer. Muster the Cretans!"
tbf if the Vatatzes claims it as part of the realms of Charles the II and the ERE at the same time it'd work, as he's the vassal of both countries, and would allow ultimate power of ruling the islands to be his.

btw how is corfu doing ittl?
As Lascaris once put as a premise for the TL, the Vatatzes seem "just at the right place at the right time" ...

I mean, eastern Sicily, Calabria, Achaea, now the Aegean sea... They are really having a very good time. I Ioannis, Alexandros has a capable and adult successor, so no regency interlude and internal stability for three or four decades more at least, unless you pull a Black Prince and a Richard II down the line.
I just wonder, and fear, how long this string of fortunes and providence befalling on House Vatatzes will last.
tbf we'll get quite a bit of upheaval for the next few decades and even the next few centuries, especially if the Ottomans continue to rise as per otl, and I don't think the Vatatzes would be able to conquer the whole of the ERE as the ottomans would be there to stop it. I do think that it is very possible for the Vatatzes to control the aegean sea and the med though, and control old hellas and at least southern italy. After all, every one will eventually band together to stop the ottomans because of their power, and the Vatatzes will use that to their advantage.
 
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What about Phocaea though?
While tempting... no. Yet at least.
If Ioannis left a few ships to secure his newest holdings, then the Despotate squadron can project power and protect the other islands of the Empire.
He certainly put a garrison on the island.
Andrea Morisco was given the lordship of Rhodes, Karpathos and Kasos and he was just a pirate with two galleys under his command.
Reading between the lines he most likely had or was given access to more.
The dearth of imperial warships was that severe. Even if there is a very modest vatatzean squadron around, the island communities will ask them for protection since Constantinople cannot offer aid.
in the defense of Rhodes, up to 20 ships are mentioned fighting on the imperial side. So there's that.
What other choice do the islanders have? It is worth mentioning that Martino Zaccaria was supposed to be able to field 100 cavalry and 1000 infantry - another testament of the wealth of Chios.
Lastly, islands such as Lesvos and Rhodes must have received refugees from Asia Minor - the very same that basically worshipped John III Vatatzes.
The population of Rhodes may have fallen as low as 10,000 at the time the knights invaded but I doubt it had gone that low. Now a funny question is this era is what value hyperpyron are we talking. If its Andronicus one at 50% purity it is STILL 80,000 ducats. Now Bartussis in the Late Byzantine army may mess up his exchange rates at a few points but thing is cost of a regular infantryman or marine was 2 to 3 ducats a month, rowers were at the lower end apparently. With light cavalry costing twice and heavy cavalry 4 times that. Which means Zaccaria's little army must had cost 33,600 to 50,400 ducats a year with him making a very tidy profit on side.

What I wonder a bit is about the Catalan company pay mentioned. At one point it is mentioned that the company cost 500,000 hyperpyra a year which translates between 2.5-3.5 ducats per soldier per month (depending if you count all 1500 horse as heavy or light) for an average around 3/month that looks pretty reasonable to me as it matches with all other instances we have. At the same time he sites Muntaner that the company infantryman received an ounce of gold a month. Which is somehow translated by Bartussis to 8.5 hyperpyra. If the Sicilian onza is meant here we are talking of about 5.25 ducats a month (or 8 hyperpyra) which looks to me to be too high and would put the cost of the company to over 1 million a year when our sources put it to 1 million for two years. Not that it much affects the big picture.

The islands have also experienced sailors to crew the galleys. In the centuries of genoese rule in Chios we observe that most of the crews of the local ships were local Greeks. The same applies to Rhodes. Moreover, Rhodes is a major wine export and perhaps the second richest island after Chios and since 1300 was being devastated by Mesut, the Bey of Menteshe.

It seems to me that the official and unofficial rule of the Despotate will quickly extend in the Aegean, simply due to the absolutely power vacuum. Ephesos has been saved from Menteshe already and I guess has a Despotate garrison.
It does not, the imperial garrison was helped but John was on his way back supposedly at the time, before his erm detour to Chios.
A two dozen galley fleet from Chios has the same numbers to the fleet of Albert of Schwarzburg - enough to defeat the Aydin and Menteshe fleets.
A garrison needs also to be paid although this would be augmented from local pronoia holdings obviously. Put differently the revenues correspond to about 3,000 men...
Giovanni Orsini had to deal with a greedy Philip and even more rapacious Nicolas de St Omer. Is there a chance that considering OTL, the TTL suzerainty of the County Palatine to be murky? Moreover, considering that in TTL Philip needs St Omer considerably more, is there a chance that he rules in his favor?

A concentrated effort by the Frankish lords is bad news for the Greeks at Laconia. The Franks can vastly outnumber them and they do not have any hope for relief from Constantinople. Michael has lost his army against the Bulgarians and he and Andronikos have to sell their jewellery to pay the ransoms. The only power that can assist the Greeks is Vatatzes and Son ™.
In OTL they did quite well facing the same threat...
 
in the defense of Rhodes, up to 20 ships are mentioned fighting on the imperial side. So there's that.
I didn't know that! Which date?

If the Sicilian onza is meant here we are talking of about 5.25 ducats a month (or 8 hyperpyra) which looks to me to be too high and would put the cost of the company to over 1 million a year when our sources put it to 1 million for two years. Not that it much affects the big picture.
Oh it is definitely way too high. A figure of 500k per year is much more believable. After all, the total revenue of the Empire in 1320 was 1m hyperpyra and that only after significant tax raises.

The population of Rhodes may have fallen as low as 10,000 at the time the knights invaded but I doubt it had gone that low.
If Rhodes between the Imperials and the (nearby) Despotate seems secure, then is there a chance for the Hospitallers to seek other targets?

After all, ostensibly the main areas of interest of the Papacy were Cyprus and Armenian Cilicia. The Hospitaller Crusade of 1310 was not insignificant: 1,000 knights, 4,000 infantry and 40 galleys. If there is not an opportunistic grap of Rhodes, Cyprus can serve as a better base to raid muslim trade- a rather lucrative business. It also seems that during that time, Cilicia Trachea was overun by the Karamanids - the significant castle of Anemourion was captured between 1300-1311.
 
Can the Despotate really project itself to so many places? They have a lot of potential enemies. I’d presume that the Italian Republics won’t be too happy about the Despotate moving into the Aegean.
 
Can the Despotate really project itself to so many places? They have a lot of potential enemies. I’d presume that the Italian Republics won’t be too happy about the Despotate moving into the Aegean.
Conveniently the republics are also fighting each other, the Hospitalers in OTL attacked both Genoa and Venice but that's substantially correct. Any Laskarid effort in the Aegean would need to be a mostly shoestring affair financed locally. And while you can expect the occasional fleet from Sicily one can just as easily posit the possibility of needing fleet in the reverse direction occasionally.
 
As Lascaris once put as a premise for the TL, the Vatatzes seem "just at the right place at the right time" ...

I mean, eastern Sicily, Calabria, Achaea, now the Aegean sea... They are really having a very good time. I Ioannis, Alexandros has a capable and adult successor, so no regency interlude and internal stability for three or four decades more at least, unless you pull a Black Prince and a Richard II down the line.
I just wonder, and fear, how long this string of fortunes and providence befalling on House Vatatzes will last.
My problem with royal dynasties is that sooner or later some idiot will show up. The Vatatzes family at least produced its fair share of reasonably capable people and at the moment shouldn't be getting too complacent. Illustrious descent or not Alexandros been after all a successful freebooter for all practical purposes.
 
Reading the comments in between the post, as if I actually know much of anything about the late Empire and I'm not just mostly confused and having a hard time keeping everything straight in my head.

Not that I don't like it or anything, just poking fun at myself.
 
My problem with royal dynasties is that sooner or later some idiot will show up.
True but also, the nation/empire ruled could get strong enough State bases and dynasty succession costume/lawas, that one of two bad/inept rulers can not do so much damage and/or the next on line would be able to fix whatever damage done such as the Habsburg or the Robertians/Carpets.
The Vatatzes family at least produced its fair share of reasonably capable people and at the moment shouldn't be getting too complacent.
Indeed. And also, possibly they could start,also, to branching out the Vatatzes family like the above mentioned French dynasty.
Illustrious descent or not Alexandros been after all a successful freebooter for all practical purposes.
Well, if you track back enough most of the Aristocrats/Royal lines, usually had a founder with similar enough origins...
 
Reading the comments in between the post, as if I actually know much of anything about the late Empire and I'm not just mostly confused and having a hard time keeping everything straight in my head.

Not that I don't like it or anything, just poking fun at myself.
Lmao that reminds me of when I just started reading alternate history. I literally knew nothing about Nicaea and the Latin states of the Eastern Roman empire.
 
True but also, the nation/empire ruled could get strong enough State bases and dynasty succession costume/lawas, that one of two bad/inept rulers can not do so much damage and/or the next on line would be able to fix whatever damage done such as the Habsburg or the Robertians/Carpets.
I think having a lower freemen's council and a noble's council (maybe we get a merchant council too?) to advise the king at first would work well, and I could see them assume more power when we get an inept king. I could see civil wars be fought by the two sides with the freemen council supporting the king (as their puppet when the king is weak, and as their patron when the king is strong). It'd be an interesting way for democratic processes to come into the vatatzes realm as the freemen elect people who're also freemen to represent them in front of the king and to the noble's council.
 
The arrival of the fleet filled with loyalists and refugees from Constantinople is a significant event. At that time, the Palaiologan Renaissance has started. I would argue that said process had started at John Vatatzes reign. In any case, I find it very plausible that the Renaissance in Italy will start at Syracuse. If that happens. the Despotate can yield significant soft power as a center of letters and culture.

There is also the matter of the general upheaval in Italy and the fighting between the Ghibelline and Guelph factions. Even fighting between Black and White Guelphs. In OTL, Frederick's policy was to spend coin, galleys and men to support the Ghibellines. On the other hand, the Despotate has already established a tradition of welcoming refugees that are either loyal or useful to Vatatzes (preferably both). Moreover, Alexandros enforces lascarid policies and that would presumably include nurturing industry. Well, the opportunity is there: in the following years, especially after the descent of the Emperor and its afternath, infighting will reign supreme. Cities that were traditionally Ghibelline like Pisa, Como and Pavia were major woolen textile producers. Lucca that will soon fall to Uguccione della Faggiuola was perhaps the most important silk manufacturing center of the early 14th century. Wonderful circumstances for our successful freebooter.
 
The arrival of the fleet filled with loyalists and refugees from Constantinople is a significant event. At that time, the Palaiologan Renaissance has started. I would argue that said process had started at John Vatatzes reign. In any case, I find it very plausible that the Renaissance in Italy will start at Syracuse. If that happens. the Despotate can yield significant soft power as a center of letters and culture.

There is also the matter of the general upheaval in Italy and the fighting between the Ghibelline and Guelph factions. Even fighting between Black and White Guelphs. In OTL, Frederick's policy was to spend coin, galleys and men to support the Ghibellines. On the other hand, the Despotate has already established a tradition of welcoming refugees that are either loyal or useful to Vatatzes (preferably both). Moreover, Alexandros enforces lascarid policies and that would presumably include nurturing industry. Well, the opportunity is there: in the following years, especially after the descent of the Emperor and its afternath, infighting will reign supreme. Cities that were traditionally Ghibelline like Pisa, Como and Pavia were major woolen textile producers. Lucca that will soon fall to Uguccione della Faggiuola was perhaps the most important silk manufacturing center of the early 14th century. Wonderful circumstances for our successful freebooter.
yeah I can see the Renaissance coming earlier than otl (like a century earlier), with Sicily being the centre of it all instead of Florence. One thing that I could see be totally different from otl is how much more prosperous the two Sicilies would be compared to otl.

I could see the wool and silk industry just move to Vatatzes Sicily because Alexandros would try to promote it and weaken the nobles comparatively, it'd probably be god for the realms Alexandros and his descendants control. I could see Morea being Vatatzes' toehold in old Hellas for hundreds of years before the Ottoman empire starts to weaken. I've also no idea how would the Aegean be controlled but I could see the Vatatzes control bits of it even if the Ottomans have a worthwhile navy.
 
yeah I can see the Renaissance coming earlier than otl (like a century earlier), with Sicily being the centre of it all instead of Florence. One thing that I could see be totally different from otl is how much more prosperous the two Sicilies would be compared to otl.

I could see the wool and silk industry just move to Vatatzes Sicily because Alexandros would try to promote it and weaken the nobles comparatively, it'd probably be god for the realms Alexandros and his descendants control. I could see Morea being Vatatzes' toehold in old Hellas for hundreds of years before the Ottoman empire starts to weaken. I've also no idea how would the Aegean be controlled but I could see the Vatatzes control bits of it even if the Ottomans have a worthwhile navy.
I hardly see eastern Sicily ( and Calabria ) supplanting the rich cities of northern Italy as the cradle of the Renaissance (with their connections both with the east (Byzantium and Muslim countries and with northern Europe, let us remember that the concepts of capitalism and banking were born here)
it is more probable that it is one of the main places where it develops, surely we will see in northern Italy being more centered on the study of Latin as opposed to the south which reads and studies Greek, certainly the concept of Italianness (already in vogue in the fourteenth century) will stop here in Naples
 
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