The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
Something like it. I've already indicated that some of the falangists are originally on the moderate left, with origins in the socialist parties that supported their side in World War I rather than calling for peace.
Interesting. I do see some problems with this. Stocks are generally disfavored among socialists ITTL as they run counter to the principle of workers owning the means of production. Bonds are a different story and will probably become fairly common as a means of raising funds. Freiland could work, but the cooperatives that own a lot of land now are still mostly private entities. Exactly how land should be distributed is a topic of serious dispute in the ASU and is probably the defining issue in Mexican politics.
Freiland was an evolution of Georgism, maybe start with the collectivization of land rents as a stepping stone measure? If they're collectivized at the national level that would be especially helpful in Mexico. As for freigeld, it's possible that it could surface during the Great Depression as a complementary currency rather than replacing the ASU standard one and be limited to things like food and consumer goods? Then it's just a matter of keeping it around once things stabilize as an emergency resource/integral part of the social safety net. By the time computers come on the scene it would basically operate like WIC, except everyone would get a card.
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Interesting.
In France and Britain especially, I could see the Falangists drawing considerable support from ex-leftist nationalists. We saw this happen IOTL in France as "neosocialists", a moderate faction of the SFIO that favoured 'revolution from above', authoritarian government and nationalism which led them to become increasingly associated with the French far-right, with many, such as their leader Marcel Deat, becoming some of the most prominent and ardent Nazi collaborators during the Vichy regime. ITTL, I could see these individuals being absorbed into the French Falangist movement.
In Britain, I think that a Falangist party would likely be a merger of two minor parties that formed IOTL after WW1:
British Workers League: This group was a pro-WW1 splinter from the British Socialist Party led by trade unionist Victor Fisher. IOTL, it renamed itself the National Democratic and Labour Party and won a handful of seats in Parliament under the Coalition Coupon, but faded into obscurity soon after. ITTL, I could see this group becoming increasingly popular among more conservative and nationalist workers as a "patriotic" alternative to the Labour Party.
National Party: This was a far-right splinter from the Conservative party characterised by its virulent Germanophobia. IOTL, it faded into obscurity after WWI as most of its members returned to the Conservative Party following the German defeat. ITTL, I could see it continuing as a potent political force, riding on popular discontent at the UK's failure to win the war and continuing anti-German sentiment.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article has this to say about the National Party:
ITTL, I can certainly see a post-Second American Revolution National Party cooperating with a stronger BWL as a way to reach out to working-class voters without associating itself with Labour's socialism. I would imagine that such a party remains and influential but relatively minor third party, at least until some sort of crisis that discredits the Tories, Liberals and Labour (maybe an analogue of OTL's Great Depression or some other economic crisis?) sweeps them into power.
I should note that I am not an expert on this area of history, and all of the information above is based purely on me reading Wikipedia. If anyone here is better-informed than I am, please feel free to correct any mistakes I have made!
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At least there's an organic path for the UK to get a National British Worker's Party, that's literally 80% of the way there to a transposed NSDAP 😂 Toss in "Democratic" for a similar dose of irony.
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i imagine that these groups or something related come into power, the socialists will likely try to make excuses to why this was the case and try to distance themselves from them within academia
Actually that reminds me- will the Brits use the "standard" falangist symbol or come up with something special for themselves?
They'll probably have their own symbol. British falangism will be quite distinct from the Spanish strain. The standard falangist symbol (which France and Portugal will also be using) is the yoke and arrows:
I'm not sure what Britain might use. They'll almost certainly keep the Union Jack. On a related note, the swastika and fasces will both avoid the connotations of fascism. The swastika will remain in use by various cultures, while the fasces will end up as a symbol for liberal republicanism.
The Brits could use something Arthurian, probably, though it would likely never graduate from party symbol to flag component. It would be a good way to hearken to "tradition" and imply the same "we're all in this together on the front lines" energy of the main Falangist symbol at the same time. I'd suggest a version of the Ahnenerbe logo with a fitting English motto on it, with the sword in this case being Excaliber.They'll probably have their own symbol. British falangism will be quite distinct from the Spanish strain. The standard falangist symbol (which France and Portugal will also be using) is the yoke and arrows:
I'm not sure what Britain might use. They'll almost certainly keep the Union Jack. On a related note, the swastika and fasces will both avoid the connotations of fascism. The swastika will remain in use by various cultures, while the fasces will end up as a symbol for liberal republicanism.
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They'll probably have their own symbol. British falangism will be quite distinct from the Spanish strain. The standard falangist symbol (which France and Portugal will also be using) is the yoke and arrows:
I'm not sure what Britain might use. They'll almost certainly keep the Union Jack. On a related note, the swastika and fasces will both avoid the connotations of fascism. The swastika will remain in use by various cultures, while the fasces will end up as a symbol for liberal republicanism.
In my Calming Sea-verse, the British ‘Not Fascist At All’ party used Saxon imagery and terms: Party strongmen were referred to as Huscarls, they carried Seax daggers and stuff like that.The Brits could use something Arthurian, probably, though it would likely never graduate from party symbol to flag component. It would be a good way to hearken to tradition and imply the same "we're all in this together on the front lines" energy. I'd suggest a version of the Ahnenerbe logo with a fitting English motto on it.
Honestly if we're going that route it would be pretty funny if the British Falangists unknowingly channeled the Madnessverse and called their leader figure the Atheling 😂 Though given the Brits retain (I assume) the monarchy it probably wouldn't work 🤔 Unless there's a pretender at the head of the movement, of course...
Fodedor_de_Casadas
Banned
I believe the most adequate term for a British Dictator would be "Lord Protector".
Assuming it isn't just "Prime Minister".
Also, we're definitely going with the Arthurian iconography. That fits with another idea I had...
Well, it could be an informal title similar to how Mussolini was formally only Prime Minister of Italy IOTL.
<looks at the Frothing Presbyterian/Calvinist Scots Speaking Ulstermen>
Very Strange Bedfellows, no matter which way they jump.
Hmmm....
Does this mean that post WWII, we could see not only Irish reunification but Scottish and Welsh independence under socialist-led governments?
On an entirely unrelated note, what is happening to Italy? Because I am acutely aware that the Bienno Rosso is happening around this time, but we have heard very little about it. I am curious to know if you have a plan for Italy?
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Well, it depends on whether the Germans or Americans get Britain. For all we know, Britain could become TTL’s Germany or Korea with each Britain being used by their superpower backers as a showpiece for their ideology.
Honestly probably wouldn't be a pretender, Edward 8 and his fixations on the rights of the monarch are right there
That's true, but Atheling means "prince eligible for kingship" so its applicability in an already monarchist system for a political leader is rather limited.