Nicholas II - the worst Tsar for the worst possible time.
Why the Chinese play cricket (an Imperial Federation timeline)
- Thread starter Miss Construction
- Start date
In the OTL President Castro was utterly convinced the US would not permit any European military intervention after the forced the British to back down after the earlier 1896 Venezuelan Crisis. But ITTL the 1896 Crisis didn't go quite as as per the OTL. It does look very similar and on the face of it would probably be taken the same way. But ITTL, the British technically formally continued to deny the Monroe Doctrine applied and the US didn't push the point. The was no US sabre rattling. This led to much closer Anglo-US relations after the 1896 crisis.
The Venezuelans are correct, the US will not allow European intervention, what they're banking on is the US won't intervene either. This is not a totally unreasonable assumption, the era of the Banana Wars has not quite begun yet and the US has no history of intervention in Latin America at this point in history. Unfortunately for the Venezuelans, the person who started that policy of intervention was Theodore Roosevelt.
The reason, once again comes back to dear Pres Blaine. Anglo-US relations took such a nose dive under his administration that it truly scared the establishments in both countries. And ever since they've been very actively trying to repair the damage. If you look closely, Anglo-US relations ITTL are ahead of where they were at this stage in the OTL. Neither side want a return to the Blaine years, which has resulted in much closer cooperation between the two.
In the OTL 1905 crisis, the British, Germans etc kept their intentions to intervene secret, went to great pains to do so. ITTL the British has informed the US of the German's intentions now. The US let the Monroe Doctrine slide a bit in 1896 to keep things on side with the British, but they can't do that again, especially if the Germans are involved. And the British know that. So they're 'narcing' on the Germans to keep the US on side.
They've basically gone to Roosevelt and said "Hey look you had our back in 1896 and we appreciate that. The Kaisers about to take his big dirty boots and go stomping all over your patch and he can pass it off as legit. You'd better go clean up the mess over there before Willy does. Don't worry, fair's fair, we'll have your back if you do."
Last edited:
Agree with you in all the fronts.
I really hope Tsarist Russia pulls through.
Honestly it might be a good change of pace if Nicholas "unfortunately" gets assassinated and Mikhail actually takes up the throne, if for nothing else than a change of pace and the moderates have a chance to implement reform. However I admit freely I don't know whether or not he would have been a good monarch nor what his beliefs were.
It really would be hard to imagine someone worse. There was no shortage whatsoever of people close to him who warned him repeatedly. In the end his brother and uncle literally begged him to begin some kind of reform. He just utterly refused to budge even a micron right up until the last few days. It was bluntly obvious to everyone around him but he was steadfast in his absolute and total refusal to see what was happening.
It is really hard to see how this can happen with him in charge. So far I've not found a single event which could work, even with my trusty truck battery hooked up to history's genitals. His personality is just tool fixed for work with so far.
Well certainly no shortage of people who wanted and even tried to bump him of. But I can't remember one which really got close. You're almost certainly right, just I REALLY don't want to throw in 'hand of god' type events. I know I've got close, but not just made up a major turning point out of thin air without at least something from the OTL or previous history of TTL to hang it on.
I'm assuming it's too late to keep Alexander III alive long enough to give his son a kick up the trousers?
As with McKinley and Garfield, I sadly could find no reason to have the bullet miss (particularly as in this case the bullet was a bomb lol). Then, you have to keep him alive another 13 1/2 years, which would make him 75, so probably not got that long to seriously influence his grandson at that stage any way.
But even if you do all that, there's no guarantees. Yes Alex II was moving toward a written constitution, but his reforming zeal had been falling for at least a decade by the time of his death and his latter reforms were very conservative. There's a significant possibility he would have ended his reforms anyway. He was just as convinced of his divine right to autocratic rule as his grandson.
Mind you, is an interesting thought. However I have a suspicion saving the Russian monarchy may be a task far greater than creating an imperial federation lol.
Last edited:
I think you are confusing Alex II with Alex III. Alex III died from kidney disease in 1894.
Oct-Dec 1902: Waving a big stick
~Oct-Dec 1902: Waving a big stick
October 1902: With the Northern Qing attempts to seize Nanjing having proved to be a costly failure, Northern Qing Commander in Chief Ronglu adopts a new strategy. Under his new plan, Yuan Shikai's Guards Army will begin an offensive in Hubei Province with the aim of taking Wuhan. Yuan will then continue to advance along the Yangtze River Valley, encircling Nanjing and encircling the enemy forces there The opposing Southern Qing Second Corps under General Wang Shizen has not yet fully completed its reorganisation and is unable to offer effective resistance, with Wuhan falling within days.
October 1902: The death of Bartolomé Masó and deployment of additional US forces freed up by the end of the Philippines Rebellion have allowed the US to suppress much of he opposition to US rule on the Island. In a move to further undermine support for the insurgents, US president Roosevelt makes a commitment to move the island to responsible government on the same terms as the Philippines as soon as peace is restored and offering a full amnesty to all who surrender. With the rebels growing weary and victory seeming no closer, many take advantage of the amnesty.
October 1902: Tan Sitong, Southern Qing Foreign Minister approaches the members of the Eight Nation Alliance regarding the indemnity imposed in the Boxer Protocol. He argues as the Northern Qing has not agreed to the terms of the Protocol, it is in the interests of the Great Powers to see the Southern Qing win the Chinese Civil War and that the repayment of the indemnity poses an unsustainable burden on the Southern Qing's ability to fight the war. While Austria-Hungary, Germany, Italy and Russia are unwilling to agree, he is strongly supported by the British, Japanese, and US, with the French, seeking to further improve relations with the British, also backing the Southern Qing. After some negotiation, Tan is successful in obtaining agreement to suspend the indemnity for two years, in return for an increase of 50 million taels of silver {£6,5228,49}.
October 1902: After the Danish introduction of the Rekylgevær m/1893 and Rekylkarabin m/1896, a group of Danish industrialists formed the Dansk Rekylriffel Syndikat A/S or DRS to market the weapons 0verseas. While the DRS has been unsuccessful in attracting any significant orders beyond small trial batches, it has keep the design alive. Thus when the Danish Army begins looking for an improved version for fortress use, DRS submits a revised version as the Rekylgevær m/1902. Keeping the same recoil operated falling block action and still chambered in 8x58mmR Danish round, the m/1902 is the world's first light machine gun, with a detachable thirty round box magazine and quick change barrel. Impressed by the m/1902, the Danish Army will order 600 for fortress and cavalry, while DRS will market it worldwide as the Madsen.
November 1902: Building on the work done by the Empress Keshun in 1900 and 1901, Southern Qing diplomat Li Jingfang has been conducting secret negotiations with Wei Guangtao, the Viceroy of Yun-Gui controlling the undeclared provinces of Guizhou and Yunnan. Finally, the years of delicate diplomacy pay off when he declares for the Southern Qing. In addition to the resources of the region, Wei Guangtao has under his command some 70,000 troops under General Yang Zengxin. These are incorporated into the Southern Qing Army as Seventh Corp. While these troops are relatively well equipped, they are not fully trained in European tactics. In an effort to rectify this, Southern Qing Army Commander in Chief Lu Yongxiang begins transferring new recruits to the corps, while rotating its current soldiers out for retraining.
November 1902: With Venezuelan President Castro continuing to reject all attempts at a diplomatic solution to the ongoing Venezuelan debt crisis, and European military intervention seeming imminent, US President proclaims that under the Monroe Doctrine, the US has the right to intervene in the internal affairs of Latin American nations who commit flagrant and consistent wrong doing to prevent other nations from intervening. This will become known as the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. In line with this new Corollary, Roosevelt order the US Navy to land Marines in Venezuela and take control of their customs houses to ensure the country makes its debt payments to it creditors. While this move angers the Germans, it finds strong support from the new British Balfour government who deploy a Royal Navy squadron to the Caribbean to reinforce their support.
November 1902: Yuan Shikai's offensive has made good progress, now pushing down the Yangtze River into Anhui Province. In an effort to stabilise the situation the elite Southern Qing Sixth Corps under General Yin Chang is deployed to face the offensive, while General Wang Shizen's Second Corps, which has suffered heavy casualties, is withdrawn to be refitted. This now pits the best units in both the Northern Qing and Southern Qing forces against one another.
November 1902: After his successful renegotiation of the Boxer Indemnity, Tan Sitong has been attempting to secure further arms and ammunition for Europe. Unfortunately, other than the British who are continuing to allow the Southern Qing to purchase considerable quantities of both, the remain European powers are still unwilling to supply arms to China. Finally Tan contacts the new Danish DRS company. The company's director Theodore Schouboe seizes the opportunity, offering to supply Madsen light machine guns. As the cost of a Madsen is only 7% of the cost of a Maxim, Tan immediately places an order for 2,000 guns, with deliveries beginning in the new year.
November 1902: As a result of the Elgin Report, the British introduce a new version of the Lee-Enfield rifle, the Short Magazine Lee Enfield or SMLE. The new rifle is intended as a universal rifle for both infantry and cavalry. The barrel is reduced in length from 76.7cm to 64cm resulting in a lighter handier weapon, improving accuracy. The SMLE also features a charger guide to allow the use of stripper clips for faster reloading, though the policy of issuing a spare magazine is retained. While some older rifles will be updated to the new pattern, this will prove prohibitively costly and most will simply be updated to include a charger guide to allow clip loading.
December 1902: The Commission established by French Prime Minister Pierre Waldeck-Rousseau to investigate the death of Émile Zola issues its report. It find no evidence of foul play, attributing his death to an unusual and highly unfortunate accident. While the report satisfies the majority of the French population and avoids renewed violence, many hard core Dreyfusards continue to believe his death was the result of his actions in support of Dreyfus. Regardless, Zola's death is indicative of the deep political divides which remain in French society.
December 1902: Emperor Napoleon IV completes his investigation into state of the French military. In completing his investigation, the Emperor has drawn heavily on his own experience in the British army, as the recent wars in Palestine, South Africa. His contacts with the British army have allowed him access to the latest intelligence from these regions, including the ongoing Chinese Civil War. His report contains three major major recommendations, Firstly the length conscription should be increased to two years to increase the size of the standing army to match the Germans. Secondly the establishment of a Conseil de la Défense Nationale consiting of senior government, military and civil service officals to coordinate defense policy. And finally the formation of a 40,000 strong long service volunter Imperial Guard. This new force will serve two purposes. A ready reaction force for deployment to meet any crisis in the French Empire, as well as providing a pool of experienced NCOs to allow for the rapid expansion of the army if required.
December 1902: The US intervention in Venezuela has led to the fall of President Castro and his replacement with Juan Gómez. In order to satisfy the creditor nations demands, Gómez agrees to remit one third of Venezuela's customs income to defray its debts. The resolution of the Venezuelan Crisis will have two major effects. Firstly it will worsen relations between Britain and German, will simultaneously strengthening relations between Britain and the US. Secondly it will establish a long term policy of US to intervention in Latin America to 'maintain order' to supposedly avoid European intervention.
December 1902: Southern Qing commander General Yin finally halts Yuan Shikai's drive into Anhui Province in the Battle of Tongling. However the Yuan Shikai has successfully taken much of Anhui Province, further threatening Nanjing. The battles in Anhui have inflicted heavy losses on both the Southern and Northern Qing forces, with both Yuan Shikai's Guards Army and the Sixth Corps badly in need of rest and refit.
October 1902: With the Northern Qing attempts to seize Nanjing having proved to be a costly failure, Northern Qing Commander in Chief Ronglu adopts a new strategy. Under his new plan, Yuan Shikai's Guards Army will begin an offensive in Hubei Province with the aim of taking Wuhan. Yuan will then continue to advance along the Yangtze River Valley, encircling Nanjing and encircling the enemy forces there The opposing Southern Qing Second Corps under General Wang Shizen has not yet fully completed its reorganisation and is unable to offer effective resistance, with Wuhan falling within days.
October 1902: The death of Bartolomé Masó and deployment of additional US forces freed up by the end of the Philippines Rebellion have allowed the US to suppress much of he opposition to US rule on the Island. In a move to further undermine support for the insurgents, US president Roosevelt makes a commitment to move the island to responsible government on the same terms as the Philippines as soon as peace is restored and offering a full amnesty to all who surrender. With the rebels growing weary and victory seeming no closer, many take advantage of the amnesty.
October 1902: Tan Sitong, Southern Qing Foreign Minister approaches the members of the Eight Nation Alliance regarding the indemnity imposed in the Boxer Protocol. He argues as the Northern Qing has not agreed to the terms of the Protocol, it is in the interests of the Great Powers to see the Southern Qing win the Chinese Civil War and that the repayment of the indemnity poses an unsustainable burden on the Southern Qing's ability to fight the war. While Austria-Hungary, Germany, Italy and Russia are unwilling to agree, he is strongly supported by the British, Japanese, and US, with the French, seeking to further improve relations with the British, also backing the Southern Qing. After some negotiation, Tan is successful in obtaining agreement to suspend the indemnity for two years, in return for an increase of 50 million taels of silver {£6,5228,49}.
October 1902: After the Danish introduction of the Rekylgevær m/1893 and Rekylkarabin m/1896, a group of Danish industrialists formed the Dansk Rekylriffel Syndikat A/S or DRS to market the weapons 0verseas. While the DRS has been unsuccessful in attracting any significant orders beyond small trial batches, it has keep the design alive. Thus when the Danish Army begins looking for an improved version for fortress use, DRS submits a revised version as the Rekylgevær m/1902. Keeping the same recoil operated falling block action and still chambered in 8x58mmR Danish round, the m/1902 is the world's first light machine gun, with a detachable thirty round box magazine and quick change barrel. Impressed by the m/1902, the Danish Army will order 600 for fortress and cavalry, while DRS will market it worldwide as the Madsen.
November 1902: Building on the work done by the Empress Keshun in 1900 and 1901, Southern Qing diplomat Li Jingfang has been conducting secret negotiations with Wei Guangtao, the Viceroy of Yun-Gui controlling the undeclared provinces of Guizhou and Yunnan. Finally, the years of delicate diplomacy pay off when he declares for the Southern Qing. In addition to the resources of the region, Wei Guangtao has under his command some 70,000 troops under General Yang Zengxin. These are incorporated into the Southern Qing Army as Seventh Corp. While these troops are relatively well equipped, they are not fully trained in European tactics. In an effort to rectify this, Southern Qing Army Commander in Chief Lu Yongxiang begins transferring new recruits to the corps, while rotating its current soldiers out for retraining.
November 1902: With Venezuelan President Castro continuing to reject all attempts at a diplomatic solution to the ongoing Venezuelan debt crisis, and European military intervention seeming imminent, US President proclaims that under the Monroe Doctrine, the US has the right to intervene in the internal affairs of Latin American nations who commit flagrant and consistent wrong doing to prevent other nations from intervening. This will become known as the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. In line with this new Corollary, Roosevelt order the US Navy to land Marines in Venezuela and take control of their customs houses to ensure the country makes its debt payments to it creditors. While this move angers the Germans, it finds strong support from the new British Balfour government who deploy a Royal Navy squadron to the Caribbean to reinforce their support.
November 1902: Yuan Shikai's offensive has made good progress, now pushing down the Yangtze River into Anhui Province. In an effort to stabilise the situation the elite Southern Qing Sixth Corps under General Yin Chang is deployed to face the offensive, while General Wang Shizen's Second Corps, which has suffered heavy casualties, is withdrawn to be refitted. This now pits the best units in both the Northern Qing and Southern Qing forces against one another.
November 1902: After his successful renegotiation of the Boxer Indemnity, Tan Sitong has been attempting to secure further arms and ammunition for Europe. Unfortunately, other than the British who are continuing to allow the Southern Qing to purchase considerable quantities of both, the remain European powers are still unwilling to supply arms to China. Finally Tan contacts the new Danish DRS company. The company's director Theodore Schouboe seizes the opportunity, offering to supply Madsen light machine guns. As the cost of a Madsen is only 7% of the cost of a Maxim, Tan immediately places an order for 2,000 guns, with deliveries beginning in the new year.
November 1902: As a result of the Elgin Report, the British introduce a new version of the Lee-Enfield rifle, the Short Magazine Lee Enfield or SMLE. The new rifle is intended as a universal rifle for both infantry and cavalry. The barrel is reduced in length from 76.7cm to 64cm resulting in a lighter handier weapon, improving accuracy. The SMLE also features a charger guide to allow the use of stripper clips for faster reloading, though the policy of issuing a spare magazine is retained. While some older rifles will be updated to the new pattern, this will prove prohibitively costly and most will simply be updated to include a charger guide to allow clip loading.
December 1902: The Commission established by French Prime Minister Pierre Waldeck-Rousseau to investigate the death of Émile Zola issues its report. It find no evidence of foul play, attributing his death to an unusual and highly unfortunate accident. While the report satisfies the majority of the French population and avoids renewed violence, many hard core Dreyfusards continue to believe his death was the result of his actions in support of Dreyfus. Regardless, Zola's death is indicative of the deep political divides which remain in French society.
December 1902: Emperor Napoleon IV completes his investigation into state of the French military. In completing his investigation, the Emperor has drawn heavily on his own experience in the British army, as the recent wars in Palestine, South Africa. His contacts with the British army have allowed him access to the latest intelligence from these regions, including the ongoing Chinese Civil War. His report contains three major major recommendations, Firstly the length conscription should be increased to two years to increase the size of the standing army to match the Germans. Secondly the establishment of a Conseil de la Défense Nationale consiting of senior government, military and civil service officals to coordinate defense policy. And finally the formation of a 40,000 strong long service volunter Imperial Guard. This new force will serve two purposes. A ready reaction force for deployment to meet any crisis in the French Empire, as well as providing a pool of experienced NCOs to allow for the rapid expansion of the army if required.
December 1902: The US intervention in Venezuela has led to the fall of President Castro and his replacement with Juan Gómez. In order to satisfy the creditor nations demands, Gómez agrees to remit one third of Venezuela's customs income to defray its debts. The resolution of the Venezuelan Crisis will have two major effects. Firstly it will worsen relations between Britain and German, will simultaneously strengthening relations between Britain and the US. Secondly it will establish a long term policy of US to intervention in Latin America to 'maintain order' to supposedly avoid European intervention.
December 1902: Southern Qing commander General Yin finally halts Yuan Shikai's drive into Anhui Province in the Battle of Tongling. However the Yuan Shikai has successfully taken much of Anhui Province, further threatening Nanjing. The battles in Anhui have inflicted heavy losses on both the Southern and Northern Qing forces, with both Yuan Shikai's Guards Army and the Sixth Corps badly in need of rest and refit.
Last edited:
It going to get way more interesting over the next four or five years. We shall be leaving Kansas in the dust very shortly
China as at December 1902
Base maps from Free SVG Maps and used under the terms of Creative Commons Attribution - Non-Commercial 4.0 Intentional
Base maps from Free SVG Maps and used under the terms of Creative Commons Attribution - Non-Commercial 4.0 Intentional
The Lee-Enfield SMLE Mk1 was a vast improvement over the long Lees it had issues being the mark 1 but the 10 round clip was a big help and it was fairly accurate.
When the Mk2 and mk2* came about it simplfied and inproved the rifle. I know before the war they comission the Pattern 1914 enfield which was a good rifle but I do think the Lee Enfield was superior because the British and the Commonwealth prettg much standardised all their forces on it which meant when war kicked off they were all singing from the same sheet.
Guess he won't dare jump into the poltical fight the attempt to change the Fench militaries uniform caused OTL well at least not yet anyways.
still a great many postive steps though they need to change their view on fighting spirit or Elan wining battles and wars.
Did this happen OTL I'm unsure?
Yeah Canada OTL had that idiot running the defence and the milita for the longest time introducing fault uniform and webbing, the shield shovel along with the Ross Rifle and the colt machine gun.
The Ross is more of a finely tuned hunting rifle than a military one and you can tell the board was filled with their cronies to get it accepted. So the asshole in question eating a Boer Snipers bullet would not be a great loss for Canada.
Hmmm @Miss Construction idea here given the effectiveness of the Boer marksmen aside from the focus on marksman ship for the British Army could this see an earlier introduction of a sniper school to the British Army?
Last edited:
The smelly was probably the best military rifle of the Great War, it's only competition was from the M1917 (another British design). ITTL the smelly is just a tad better than the OTL, because each soldier has a fully loaded spare box mag in an easily accessible pouch on his webbing as well as being able to clip load. So in emergencies they can switch the mag, I think it's even faster than putting in two clips.
Not sure if the P13(14) will show up ITTL yet, probably. Certainly did last time round.
Ah yeah. Watch this space for the big Nap IV Vs the French military hierarchy throw down coming up. He is going to want an army sort of like the British, heavy focus on musketry, dedication to fire and movement, trust the man on the spot, cavalry as mounted infantry. The generals will not go down without a fight.
This was roughly the ultimate outcome. However the path was different. In the OTL Germany, France, Britain etc did intervene militarily. A blockade was imposed and iirc troops were landed. This made Roosevelt get his big stick, wave it menacingly and for the others to back down.
However ITTL the British didn't go in with the Germans. Instead that narced and Roosevelt sent in the marines to force the Venezuelans to accept a deal before the Germans could start their planned intervention. And the British drove him the point by sending a couple of cruisers and probably a battleship or two to back up the US.
Nett result, Anglo-American relations get warmer, anglo-german and us-german relations get frostier.
I do wish I could just post everything I've got for the next five years, but every time I work out a new year, I have to go back and edit the previous few. But big changes coming up.
It's just as important to watch for what's not happened as what has. ForEx. No anglo-japanese alliance ITTL, but you can definitely see a US-Japamese alliance in the making.