Crown Imperial: An Alt British Monarchy
- Thread starter Opo
- Start date
@Opo , the chapter post isn’t thread marked.
Also, great chapter. I’m glad to see Agnes and George finally together. Also, I’m glad that Pedro got a better wife than OTL. Cumberland ain’t Cumberland without stirring up unnecessary drama.
Also, great chapter. I’m glad to see Agnes and George finally together. Also, I’m glad that Pedro got a better wife than OTL. Cumberland ain’t Cumberland without stirring up unnecessary drama.
Oops! I'll fix the threadmarks today as I think another one slipped the net too somewhere.
Many thanks! And yes, I think Pedro will be much happier with Maria Luisa than he was with Teresa Cristina.
Cumberland is gonna Cumberland but that's pretty much it from him now. We'll cover his death when it comes but otherwise? I think we've done all we can with him as a character. It was interesting to imagine the life he might have had if he hadn't become King of Hanover as he did in the OTL but I can't lie, I'll be glad to see the back of him at last!
You're absolutely right! I had the wrong bride and edited the right one in but gave her the wrong father. Many thanks!
Part Four will pick up where Part Three left off (around August 1845), so we'll be covering the Famine in Ireland pretty soon.
I decided to handle it in the next "part" as it didn't seem quite right to go from starvation to wedding gowns etc and it fits better with the general theme of our next segment which will be about the trials and tribulations of Europe leading up to, during and after 1848. Many thanks for your continued support of TTL, it's much appreciated!
That's an interesting one, great question!
George has a keen interest in the military but not so much in the Navy, so I don't think he'd seek him out as such - which makes me wonder if Cochrane would have been at court for a meeting to take place?
Certainly Cochrane wouldn't have been at court during the reign of George IV because he was an ally of Francis Burdett who was public enemy number one where the Duke of York was concerned in the OTL.
I think it's safe to assume that the Duke of Clarence as regent would have vouched for Cochrane as he did in the OTL and that the Whig government would probably have seen him pardoned, restored and promoted. So I think it's possible that George V would have met him when he paid the occasional visit to Clarence House when the King was young and now the Whigs are back in government, and given that Cochrane lobbied for the return of his Knighthood around this time, I don't see why we couldn't stage an audience in Part Four. Many thanks for the suggestion!
Thanks for the response reason I brought it up is I think the king would find Cochrane an interesting if sometimes irritating man due to his tendency to speak his mind. But that's not the only reason he is very much an innovator he had already come up with some interesting designs including a tunnelling shield, with Marc Isambard Brunel that they patented as well as a number of other ideas also was very into steam power as well and he tried to get a steamship over to Chile to be involved in their war for independence.That's an interesting one, great question!
George has a keen interest in the military but not so much in the Navy, so I don't think he'd seek him out as such - which makes me wonder if Cochrane would have been at court for a meeting to take place?
Certainly Cochrane wouldn't have been at court during the reign of George IV because he was an ally of Francis Burdett who was public enemy number one where the Duke of York was concerned in the OTL.
I think it's safe to assume that the Duke of Clarence as regent would have vouched for Cochrane as he did in the OTL and that the Whig government would probably have seen him pardoned, restored and promoted. So I think it's possible that George V would have met him when he paid the occasional visit to Clarence House when the King was young and now the Whigs are back in government, and given that Cochrane lobbied for the return of his Knighthood around this time, I don't see why we couldn't stage an audience in Part Four. Many thanks for the suggestion!
He was very into technical developments I'm not sure if this is something the King would be interested in.
I think he could be, without a doubt. Leave it with me and I'll see what I can do.
I was wondering how the Princess Royal was doing? Because she’s deaf and the last time we heard about her, she was making progress in her education.
It's a bit tricky with the children at their current age to include them as much as I'd like as they can only contribute so much in the way of plotlines but when we come to Part Four, I'd like to explore Queen Agnes' relationship with her step-children which gives a good opportunity for a Missy update. At 7 years old, she'd certainly have progressed to a point where it's noticeable.
When we get to part 4 do you plan on adding a little more flavor with the united states, as we creep towards the Civil war
Well be that as it may with all the butterflies that happened so far and without prince Albert's moderating influence and American bullishness we could start to see a rift across the pond earlier than the 1860s.
I’m enjoying this, as ever, and looking forward to the next Part.
I’m not even that into this genre of AH- royal family sagas and intrigue from more recent centuries are not usually the type of thing I’d choose to seek out. But I enjoy good writing, and super characterisation, regardless of genre. And this is certainly that.
It’s also very noticeable how complex this has all become, yet it doesn’t feel so. We feel we know the characters and can keep track of them. That’s a rather skilful thing to accomplish.
I’m looking forward to 1848 in this changed Europe!
I’m not even that into this genre of AH- royal family sagas and intrigue from more recent centuries are not usually the type of thing I’d choose to seek out. But I enjoy good writing, and super characterisation, regardless of genre. And this is certainly that.
It’s also very noticeable how complex this has all become, yet it doesn’t feel so. We feel we know the characters and can keep track of them. That’s a rather skilful thing to accomplish.
I’m looking forward to 1848 in this changed Europe!
I really like how the story is continuing and I’m happy for George and Agnes.
Since George was mentioned in the previous chapter as the head of the church and the Oxford movement (and since you said that there will be a famine in Ireland) some suggestions came to my mind.
How he will face famine will be a challenge in which the link between the new King (George) and the Irish will be tested, where it will be possible to understand if loyalty or xenophobia will win with the fierce British antipapism. The King will have to face a difficult situation having to decide how to relate to his Catholic subjects for two reasons. One is antipapism, the other is the fact that your nation will find itself interacting especially with Pope Pius IX .
Great Britain has a deeply rooted anti-Catholic sentiment (since the 16th century) as Catholics were seen not only as elements subversive to the state but also as possible "fifth column" (the Jacobin revolts and revolts sustained by Spain in the previous century). This feeling returned cyclically, especially when there was a threat that a Catholic power would become hegemonic on the European continent, and could threaten the freedoms of Protestant peoples. It must also be said that the Britons thought of Popery as a foreigner or Irish, since Ireland was the territory with a Catholic majority (English and Scottish Catholics kept a low profile).
Another important thing is that the Hanoverians held the English throne exclusively as Protestants, thanks to the agreements made after the glorious revolution and the Act of Settlement (1701) where it was declared that those who did not strictly observe the constitution were ousted (such as the various hesitations of George’s predecessors, the OTL, on Catholic emancipation or the union of Ireland to Great Britain) since they did not follow the rules of the kingdom.
Relations between the United Kingdom and the Holy See at this time were almost non-existent, by direct means, but since Britain and Prussia were the nation with a good Catholic minority not to continue having a diplomatic relationship was impossible, especially after the problems in Ireland. At the same time in Rome he was elected Pope Pius IX (famous in Europe for having liberal ideas. From his youth, on his return to South America, he wanted to start a restoration and enlargement of the ecclesiastical hierarchy that was successful following his mandate as Pope) which takes the Irish situation to heart.
Worthy of note is his encyclical (Praedecessores nostros of 25 March 1847) translated into three different languages (printed in thirty thousand copies sent throughout the Catholic world), where he invites Catholics and even kingdoms to help, pray and fund donations, food and non-food, to be sent to Ireland (these donations totaled fifteen thousand pounds, mainly from Italy , France and Austria). Then between 1950 and 1952 he undertook a vigorous reconstruction of the Catholic bureaucracy in Great Britain that replaced the seventeenth-century system of eight apostolic vicars, introducing new dioceses including Westminster.
In Ireland, famine has caused about four million deaths and displaced people. For an Irishman there were only two possibilities: immigrate or accept the "souperism" (Protestant association that in exchange for food aid demanded conversion). All the laws formulated in their assistance faced strong opposition both in parliament and between public opinion (dissolution of criminal laws and the reform of the Maynooth Act) because seen by the Protestant movements, Like the orange order, they went to prevent the full control of teaching, the protection of the home and the authority of the Protestant elite on Irish soil.
Another threat was, for these groups, the Oxford movement (calling for reforms within the English church) which in full anti-Catholic hysteria was considered to be on a par with a "fifth column" being able to put at risk, along with the actions of the Pope, the freedom and territorial and spiritual supremacy of the nation. Especially after the pastoral letter (Flaminian gate) of Cardinal Wiseman (later Archbishop of Westminster) and the sermons of Henry Newman.
This situation forced the government to introduce two laws: the Eglintoun clause (1848), in which the lords forbid priests to serve as representatives of the Pope, and the ecclesiastical bill titles (1851) introduced by Minister Russell, forbids the bishops of the Catholic Church to use place names. Russell sent Palmerston on a diplomatic mission to Italy to propose an exchange to the Holy See where in return for the Irish forcing them to swear allegiance to the crown, the British pledged to balance the influence of Austria and France in Italy. But in Rome they were not convinced that a Protestant power could put pressure on the Pope in exchange for a vague promise of help and then they recline the offer, not wanting to decide in the place of the Irish.
P.S. I have some curiosity, after George bought Balmoral Castle in Scotland he will buy one in Ireland to appease people?
We know of Queen Agnes' love of medicine, will it be the equivalent of Florence Nightingale in royal sauce?
I know that the royal princess has a serious problem, she is deaf-mute, since the Pope in 1850 made a unique law in Europe where it establishes the care and training of all disabled people, including deaf-mutes, this law has allowed the birth of very famous specialists. Will we see any at court?
What is happening in South Africa?
Thanks in advance.
And forgive me for the too long comment written with my bad English.
Since George was mentioned in the previous chapter as the head of the church and the Oxford movement (and since you said that there will be a famine in Ireland) some suggestions came to my mind.
How he will face famine will be a challenge in which the link between the new King (George) and the Irish will be tested, where it will be possible to understand if loyalty or xenophobia will win with the fierce British antipapism. The King will have to face a difficult situation having to decide how to relate to his Catholic subjects for two reasons. One is antipapism, the other is the fact that your nation will find itself interacting especially with Pope Pius IX .
Great Britain has a deeply rooted anti-Catholic sentiment (since the 16th century) as Catholics were seen not only as elements subversive to the state but also as possible "fifth column" (the Jacobin revolts and revolts sustained by Spain in the previous century). This feeling returned cyclically, especially when there was a threat that a Catholic power would become hegemonic on the European continent, and could threaten the freedoms of Protestant peoples. It must also be said that the Britons thought of Popery as a foreigner or Irish, since Ireland was the territory with a Catholic majority (English and Scottish Catholics kept a low profile).
Another important thing is that the Hanoverians held the English throne exclusively as Protestants, thanks to the agreements made after the glorious revolution and the Act of Settlement (1701) where it was declared that those who did not strictly observe the constitution were ousted (such as the various hesitations of George’s predecessors, the OTL, on Catholic emancipation or the union of Ireland to Great Britain) since they did not follow the rules of the kingdom.
Relations between the United Kingdom and the Holy See at this time were almost non-existent, by direct means, but since Britain and Prussia were the nation with a good Catholic minority not to continue having a diplomatic relationship was impossible, especially after the problems in Ireland. At the same time in Rome he was elected Pope Pius IX (famous in Europe for having liberal ideas. From his youth, on his return to South America, he wanted to start a restoration and enlargement of the ecclesiastical hierarchy that was successful following his mandate as Pope) which takes the Irish situation to heart.
Worthy of note is his encyclical (Praedecessores nostros of 25 March 1847) translated into three different languages (printed in thirty thousand copies sent throughout the Catholic world), where he invites Catholics and even kingdoms to help, pray and fund donations, food and non-food, to be sent to Ireland (these donations totaled fifteen thousand pounds, mainly from Italy , France and Austria). Then between 1950 and 1952 he undertook a vigorous reconstruction of the Catholic bureaucracy in Great Britain that replaced the seventeenth-century system of eight apostolic vicars, introducing new dioceses including Westminster.
In Ireland, famine has caused about four million deaths and displaced people. For an Irishman there were only two possibilities: immigrate or accept the "souperism" (Protestant association that in exchange for food aid demanded conversion). All the laws formulated in their assistance faced strong opposition both in parliament and between public opinion (dissolution of criminal laws and the reform of the Maynooth Act) because seen by the Protestant movements, Like the orange order, they went to prevent the full control of teaching, the protection of the home and the authority of the Protestant elite on Irish soil.
Another threat was, for these groups, the Oxford movement (calling for reforms within the English church) which in full anti-Catholic hysteria was considered to be on a par with a "fifth column" being able to put at risk, along with the actions of the Pope, the freedom and territorial and spiritual supremacy of the nation. Especially after the pastoral letter (Flaminian gate) of Cardinal Wiseman (later Archbishop of Westminster) and the sermons of Henry Newman.
This situation forced the government to introduce two laws: the Eglintoun clause (1848), in which the lords forbid priests to serve as representatives of the Pope, and the ecclesiastical bill titles (1851) introduced by Minister Russell, forbids the bishops of the Catholic Church to use place names. Russell sent Palmerston on a diplomatic mission to Italy to propose an exchange to the Holy See where in return for the Irish forcing them to swear allegiance to the crown, the British pledged to balance the influence of Austria and France in Italy. But in Rome they were not convinced that a Protestant power could put pressure on the Pope in exchange for a vague promise of help and then they recline the offer, not wanting to decide in the place of the Irish.
P.S. I have some curiosity, after George bought Balmoral Castle in Scotland he will buy one in Ireland to appease people?
We know of Queen Agnes' love of medicine, will it be the equivalent of Florence Nightingale in royal sauce?
I know that the royal princess has a serious problem, she is deaf-mute, since the Pope in 1850 made a unique law in Europe where it establishes the care and training of all disabled people, including deaf-mutes, this law has allowed the birth of very famous specialists. Will we see any at court?
What is happening in South Africa?
Thanks in advance.
And forgive me for the too long comment written with my bad English.
I think George would be completely uninterested in the Oxford movement: he would find the theology boring, the emotional aspects slightly distasteful and the practical actions ridiculous (fish days? fasting? Come on now). He might get along with Cardinal Manning though, but only because Manning is a practical minded and competent administrator.
I mean, I think people are getting better at it now - like, most of my friends are women and I’m a guy, but nobody assumes anything - but you’re definitely right that it’s still an issue and was VERY pronounced then.