Well, remember in that movie ET the Extra Terrestrial, you know that scene in which Elliot is riding with ET in the basket mounted on the front of his bicycle, and then suddenly Elliot's bicycle begins to rise up and fly through the air? I mean, who did that happen? Did Elliot's bike have invisible wings? Did ET use some sort telekinesis powers to make the bike fly? Or, maybe Elliot had some sort of anti-gravity device secretly installed on the bottom of his bicycle frame, and it just decided to start working at that moment? Also, unless your name happens to be Harry Turtledove, you don't get to tell other people what doesn't make sense, and maybe you should just learn how to make believe.
What if TL-191 was actually real? What's beyond 1945?
- Thread starter TheCrimsonPaw
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I think the US wouldn't let the South be one unified Confederacy, though. I imagine the South being split up into the individual states or into two or three regional countries.
Maybe does three district that control by the US military in the "Independent" country could remain split by the US strategically
Yeah, I could see these being the districts:
District 1:
Virginia
North Carolina
South Carolina
District 2:
Georgia
Alabama
Florida
District 3:
Mississippi
Arkansas
Louisiana
I don't know what would happen to Tennessee.
Probably assimilator to become a US state because of proximity of the border of the US.
I wonder what district will be called in Post-SGW?
The USA will not allow the CSA to reconstituted in any form after the end of the Second Great War, even in a truncated form. After Operation Blackbeard, and every other war since the War of Secession, I don’t think that US political or military leaders will advocate the restoration of the CSA. Any independent country in the former CSA, outside of what happened at the end of the war with Texas, will be viewed as an existential threat to the USA.
I agree that the former CSA will not be free of violent resistance against US rule. But I don’t think that it would be enough to drive out US forces. The US military has probably learned a lot of lessons about counter-insurgency warfare from interwar Occupied Canada, Utah, and Houston, Sequoyah, and Kentucky. The US government and military will have a stronger appreciation in the first generation after the end of the SGW of what works and what doesn’t work in facing anti-US rebellions.
The USA has the military power and economic resources to see through reunion. After everything that the USA went through in the series, I cannot imagine a willingness by postwar US political leaders to restore any version of the former CSA.
I agree that the former CSA will not be free of violent resistance against US rule. But I don’t think that it would be enough to drive out US forces. The US military has probably learned a lot of lessons about counter-insurgency warfare from interwar Occupied Canada, Utah, and Houston, Sequoyah, and Kentucky. The US government and military will have a stronger appreciation in the first generation after the end of the SGW of what works and what doesn’t work in facing anti-US rebellions.
The USA has the military power and economic resources to see through reunion. After everything that the USA went through in the series, I cannot imagine a willingness by postwar US political leaders to restore any version of the former CSA.
If the CSA is purchasing those two provinces, it certainly would make sense to try to gain some measure of control over Baja California. Perhaps the Longstreet government would have attempted to do so, had the Second Mexican War not broken out.
...what sort of analogy is that? I can call out something that doesn't make logical sense, and "more or less bog standard Reformist Social Democratic Party getting taken over by a Hitler figure for no apparent reason" is something that needless to say leaves me scratching my head.
I personally find the Mormon shenanigans that happened in TL-191 kind of ridiculous since if there was a major disagreement between them and the US government, history has shown they would move again. In OTL they already had colonies in Australia, Mexico, and Canada. That being said, I can see most Mormons after the SGW relocating to either Mexico or Australia voluntarily so they don't have to be forcefully shipped to the Sandwich Islands.
I don't think they have the military power and economic resources to occupy the former CSA indefinitely, especially if said occupation is faced with much more rowdiness and resistance than they anticipate. Eventually, the USA will bite off more than it can chew and it will either have to admit them as states sooner than anticipated or let them go their own ways under the condition they be puppeted. Also, will the tactics employed on the former CSA still be popular after an extended amount of time or even annexation back into the Union? If at least one of those is no, then the harsh military occupation cannot continue as is.
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And keep in mind this is not US TL191 have the privilege of not touched by war IOTL but how is capital got nuke, bombing attack across the US cities and everything happening Ohio.
US doesn't have Marshall plan to help the Confederacy out from poverty in SGW and it will take decade to recover then with Germany
With Kentucky and Tennessee having a larger and more staunch pro-Union population than in the states mentioned above I can see them helping the Union troops with military occupation and reconstruction. In that event the USA would reward Tennessee (and Kentucky) for their greater cooperation by parole into the Union.
Here is an interesting idea for where the might settle: Western Australia. In here Weststralia is independent from an Austrialia that itself declared independence form Britian due to it going fascist (Weststralia was an actual real thing, look it up. It even had an independence referendum). Then after WW2 the Mormons roll in, and become a major force in Weststralia, possibly even taking it over form the original Westrlaians, turning it into the free theocracy they wanted so much.
A Vietnam War analogue in South Africa would be cool 🤔 The US would obviously be supporting the revolutionary side of the struggle, but I could also see Germany as neutral/critical of the war and Japan filling the OTL US spot.
I see a red door
And I want it painted black
No colors anymore
I want them to turn black
I see the girls walk by
Dressed in their summer clothes
I have to turn my head
Until my darkness goes
I see a line of cars
And they're all painted black
With flowers and my love
Both never to come back
I've seen people turn their heads
And quickly look away
Like a newborn baby
It just happens everyday
I look inside myself
And see my heart is black
I see my red door
I must have it painted black
Maybe then, I'll fade away
And not have to face the facts
It's not easy facing up
When your whole world is black
No more will my green sea
Go turn a deeper blue
I could not foresee this thing
Happening to you
If I look hard enough
Into the setting sun
My love will laugh with me
Before the morning comes...
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Almost as hard as the German artillery the Boemfontien government is using while obliterating a ANC convoy
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Not the same. Native black Africans greatly outnumber white Afrikaners. The only way the white Afrikaners can turn the tide is with another anti-black genocide. And from the moral side of things, it's a white supremacist apartheid state trying to oppress black Africans, not Vietnamese countrymen fighting for independence.
I fail to see how fascinating it is to see a white Afrikaner supremacist state obliterate black liberationist movements. Maybe that's just me.
Also, the timeline is already bleak for black people.
I'm not demanding him do anything about it, it's his story, his book, and his IP, but I really wonder why Turtledove never wrote some TL-191 novels set after 1945, even short and simple ones, to give us a basic look of what the TL-191 world looks like after the end.