Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War

Now that Grant has his turn in the spotline, I'm ready for Sherman to have his moment too. Even if its just him burning his way through Georgia
 

Cryostorm

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Better yet, Lincoln may take Grant as his VP candidate for term three, not only would it be as close to an instant win button as you could get but he may decide that if Grant is his most likely successor maybe he should teach him a bit about politics. Could actually see Grant with decent political experience, and trustworthy allies, getting triple termed too which would firmly put Reconstruction* in place.
 
Better yet, Lincoln may take Grant as his VP candidate for term three, not only would it be as close to an instant win button as you could get but he may decide that if Grant is his most likely successor maybe he should teach him a bit about politics. Could actually see Grant with decent political experience, and trustworthy allies, getting triple termed too which would firmly put Reconstruction* in place.
BASED
 
What fun! Grant is finally there and it sounds like Hancock will realize he needs grants help eventually. I think Grant can figure out how to handle him so he doesn't make him feel feel bad for requesting the help.

Even leaving aside the possible Marfam Syndrome, Lincoln was under a lot of pressure. I don't know if he would want a 3rd term health wise. However, maybe Lincoln with Grant as vice president would work. After all, If Lincoln has some times when he is ill then Grant can step in with Lincoln advising him on how to handle different things.

So in this time line Sherman will be known for marching through Alabama. At Least the tune to Marching Ahrough Georgia only needs one extra up down beat (Or whatever it's called) on each line where that is sung. :)

Grant to Sherman: " You may think I am imitating President Lincoln with this quip, but when putting together your battle plans, pretend Banks is not there." :)
 
And THAT is how you come back after a long absence! Well done!

Hancock will no longer be Hancock the Superb. He will become Hancock the Glorious... assuming he can reach a consensus with Ulysses.

I'm pretty sure Grant's strategy needs a name. The Cerberus Plan, anyone? I'm the imagining a Confederate cartoon where Grant is handling Hancock, Sherman, and Thomas as Cerebrus. Of course, I'm pretty sure any intended negative propaganda effects would completely backfire, and the Union will all be in for it!

To: @DTF955Baseballfan:
So in this time line Sherman will be known for marching through Alabama. At Least the tune to Marching Ahrough Georgia only needs one extra up down beat (Or whatever it's called) on each line where that is sung. :)
As long as they keep the tune! But perhaps it comes in both Alabamian and Georgian flavors? :)

Grant to Sherman: " You may think I am imitating President Lincoln with this quip, but when putting together your battle plans, pretend Banks is not there." :)
Or to paraphrase TheKnightIrish, "We Want No Banks Here!" - perhaps one of the few things both Yank and Reb high command can agree on.

Also, @Red_Galiray: any strategic maps in the wings?
 
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Even leaving aside the possible Marfam Syndrome, Lincoln was under a lot of pressure. I don't know if he would want a 3rd term health wise. However, maybe Lincoln with Grant as vice president would work. After all, If Lincoln has some times when he is ill then Grant can step in with Lincoln advising him on how to handle different things.

I wonder if this is too much of a Galaxy Brain idea, but is there anything stopping Lincoln in 1868 from encouraging Grant to run for President while Lincoln joins him on the ticket for Vice-President? It's less of an official workload for Abe, for the sake of himself and his family and also helping him stay around as a party grandee, a third term as President might leave him with less time where, officially retired, he can help raise the next generation of Republicans. Plus, after a few years of peace and Reconstruction the Northern deification of Lincoln might begin to be wearing out, as a peacetime press, even papers close to his most loyal bases of support, starts asking unfettered questions about the legality of some of his actions in war, and a peacetime Republican Party no longer feels there's such an emergency that they can't afford to switch horses. Lincoln being VP to Grant satisfies desires for a younger leader without so much controversy, while retaining Lincoln's excellence in oratory and political operation, and in a position where he could focus on protecting and tutoring Grant without having to fight so much with Congress.

Besides, by 1868 Lincoln should be finished with committing the most 'heinous' (from the South's perspective) measures of Reconstruction; he's hanged the people he's had to, got freedmen on their feet and (presumably) worked out the problem of supplying them land, and has crushed whatever attempts at organised white terrorism crop up in the aftermath of peace. All Grant needs to do then is have the patience to let people come to terms with it, and the South is probably more likely to let things go if the President is the general who bested them on the field, rather than still being the guy whose first election was the reason they rebelled. The South won't love any Republican President, but the remnant of the planter class, particularly the military men most qualified to start up any would-be Klans, are more likely to respect (and/or fear) a graduate from West Point who showed brilliance, energy, and determination against his Southern counterparts.
 
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I'm afriad if this is too much of a galaxy brain idea, but is there anything stopping Lincoln in 1868 from encouraging Grant to run for President while Lincoln joins him on the ticket for Vice-President? It's less of an official workload for Abe, for the sake of himself and his family and also helping him stay around as a party grandee. Plus, after a few years of peace and Reconstruction the Northern deification of Lincoln might begin to be wearing out, as a peacetime press starts asking questions about the legality of some of his actions in war, and a peacetime Republican Party no longer feels there's such an emergency that they can't afford to switch horses. Lincoln being VP to Grant satisfies desires for a younger leader without so much controversy, while retaining Lincoln's excellence in oratory and political operation, and in a position where he could focus on protecting and tutoring Grant without having to fight so much with Congress.

Besides, by 1868 Lincoln should be finished with committing the most 'heinous' (from the South's perspective) measures of Reconstruction; he's hanged the people he's had to, got freedmen on their feet and (presumably) worked out the problem of supplying them land, and has crushed whatever attempts at organised white terrorism crop up in the aftermath of peace. All Grant needs to do then is have the patience to let people come to terms with it, and the South is probably more likely to let things go if the President is the general who bested them on the field, rather than still being the guy whose first election was the reason they rebelled. The South won't love any Republican President, but the remnant of the planter class, particularly the military men most qualified to start up any would-be Klan's, are more likely to respect (and/or fear) a graduate from West Point who showed brilliance, energy, and determination against his Southern counterparts.
The proposed Grant-Lincoln ticket would ineligible to be on the ballot or receive electoral votes from the state of Illinois as it is both of their home state. They could just recruit some other Republican politician as Grant's running mate in that specific state and just risk the Vice Presidency being determined by the Senate in a contingent election.
 
The proposed Grant-Lincoln ticket would ineligible to be on the ballot or receive electoral votes from the state of Illinois as it is both of their home state. They could just recruit some other Republican politician as Grant's running mate in that specific state and just risk the Vice Presidency being determined by the Senate in a contingent election.
I thought Grant lived in Ohio? Or was that post presidency?
 

The American political system never fails to astound me.

In that case, maybe some Cabinet position for Lincoln? Grant IOTL founded the Justice Department, perhaps Lincoln could do it and then become attorny-general for Grant? But if they want to avoid the potential optics of Lincoln being Grant's effective enforcer of Reconstruction, what about Secretary of the Interior? His early career with the Whigs had a focus on 'internal improvements' that could make him fit neatly in that chair. And it can in a way act as the 'peacetime presidency' that he never got to have. It also seems like the sort of position that's a little further away from the major levers of executive power; if Lincoln was the State, War, or Treasury Secretary, there might be more of an image of him being Grant's shadowed puppeteer.
 
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The American political system never fails to astound me.

In that case, maybe some Cabinet position for Lincoln? Grant IOTL founded the Justice Department, perhaps Lincoln could do it and then become attorny-general for Grant? But if they want to avoid the potential optics of Lincoln being Grant's effective enforcer of Reconstruction, what about Secretary of the Interior? His early career with the Whigs had a focus on 'internal improvements' that could make him fit neatly in that chair. And it can in a way act as the 'peacetime presidency' that he never got to have. It also seems like the sort of position that's a little further away from the major levers of executive power; if Lincoln was the State, War, or Treasury Secretary, there might be more of an image of him being Grant's shadowed puppeteer.
He could also be appointed to the Supreme Court.
 
The American political system never fails to astound me.

In that case, maybe some Cabinet position for Lincoln? Grant IOTL founded the Justice Department, perhaps Lincoln could do it and then become attorny-general for Grant? But if they want to avoid the potential optics of Lincoln being Grant's effective enforcer of Reconstruction, what about Secretary of the Interior? His early career with the Whigs had a focus on 'internal improvements' that could make him fit neatly in that chair. And it can in a way act as the 'peacetime presidency' that he never got to have. It also seems like the sort of position that's a little further away from the major levers of executive power; if Lincoln was the State, War, or Treasury Secretary, there might be more of an image of him being Grant's shadowed puppeteer.

Probably not. There's a reason that former Presidents have a tendency of retiring from public life, and have never served in a successor's cabinet - there would be too much of a chance of them overshadowing the actual President or being seen to undermine their boss. There's really only two Presidents who had future careers in government after leaving the val office: JQA and Taft, and both stayed far away from the executive afterwards. Famously, Reagan considered Ford as VP before dismissing the idea for the reasons I stated above.

Besides - look what the war has done to Lincoln! Let the poor man retire and enjoy the rest of his life with the kids and grandkids! x'D

Seriously though, I do suspect Lincoln will become the Old Man of the Party during his post-presidency; he'll make sure his opinions are made known and will lobby to make sure that Reconstruction doesn't get unwound during the terms of his successors. But, other than that - I expect he spends a good deal of time reconnecting with Robert (how many of Lincoln's children are surviving this presidency?), helping the careers of his children, spending time with the grandkids, and writing his memoirs. I think a third term is the very last thing he'd want; both because he was aware of the precedence of Washington, but mainly because the Presidency had become such a burden for him during the war and though he wasn't wont to complain about it (he figured he was put there for a reason) I can't imagine that he's going to want 12 years in office.
 
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Great update! The point of revisionism and counter-revisionism was a pretty funny one to see. I remember reading some McClellan apologism in the 1920s-30s from some anti-Radical Republican historians. The historiography of this war would be an interesting one:
  • McDowell would be a martyr for the Union and since everyone in the pre-war officer corps liked him (including Grant and Sherman), they'd probably have everything good to say about him in their memoirs. Funnily enough, I actually imagine that he's treat like a Lyons figure from OTL, great potential but cut short, which would be subject to revision and counterrevisionism over whether Baltimore and Second Maryland were actually competently handled.
  • Hooker would probably be largely the same as OTL. Someone who helped build up the Eastern Army's army but dropped the ball.
  • Doubleday is a matter of: is he good or just lucky? Napoleon would of course say the latter is better, but Doubleday's critics (Meade, conservative officers and politicians) would probably argue that Doubleday was lucky in getting "glorious" assignments at Washington and Union Mills and that the more ugly and inconclusive slugfests at Mine Run and North Anna were proof of his mediocrity.
And with the removal of Johnston, I wonder how much better Cheatham will do? I know very little of this figure, but somehow feel that he will do worse, though perhaps not as badly as Hood in OTL when he fought Sherman.
Cheatham is widely considered the second best division commander in the Army of Tennessee, second only to Cleburne. He was a hard fighter and his career as corps commander was controversial. While he did have initiative in his first battle that only failed due to a lack of coordination on Hood's end (Atlanta, July 22), Hood's Tennessee adventure didn't offer many opportunities to distinguish any Confederate generals. There was the Spring Hill fiasco where Cheatham failed to block the critical road used by Schofield to escape an encirclement, but there was plenty of blame to go around. A more unforgivable event was Stone River, where Cheatham was allegedly drunk and got his division butchered in an attack.
 
Another interesting thing about Doubleday is that OTL, the idea of his having invented baseball developed, I think from someone who had served under him, when an attempt was made to determine baseball's origin in the early 1900s. He may have mentioned the game, but it was probably confabulated memory from age that caused the man to think Doubleday had actually invented the game. )

Here, he is more well-known, not just a run of the mill, nameless Union commander. It was this Doubleday myth that led to the Hall of Fame being put in cooperstown. I wonder where it would be in this timeline.

In 1845, Alexander Cartwright laid down the first modern rules that were similar to our game and his New York Knickerbockers were one of the first teams, though they played across the field in New Jersey, which is not a good place because it would have been totally wrecked by Hurricane Sandy.

Of course, who knows, history could change enough so Doubleday is involved in the game added slowly turns professional postwar, especially in trying to keep it integrated. And with Al Reach going to Philadelphia and Octavius Catto being involved, the city will certainly have some connection.

Maybe in this timeline, with Philadelphia having hosted the nation's capital for several years, the city will decide they want to keep being important and one way is to have the Hall of Fame of the national pastime in the area.

But, probably in a small community outside Philadelphia. One main reason baseball officials went for the Doubleday myth was so the Hall of Fame would be in a nice pastoral setting, not a huge city. In this scenario, instead of Doubleday's home town of Cooperstown, perhaps one of these cities would be good.
 
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