AHC: An American "Taiping Rebellion"

So inspired by some only half-serious conversation over on the Your least favourite AH tropes & motifs thread over in Non-Pol Chat lamenting the lack of Mormon Taiping Rebellion TLs .

So your challenge here is that with a PoD after 1770, craft a scenario in which the United States is torn apart in an apocalyptically violent civil war directly as the result of the charismatic leader of a new Christian offshoot or sect that happens to be in some way extremely strange compared to the rest of "mainstream" Christendom attempting to seize control of the country.

Note: However said charismatic cult leader also claiming to be the literal brother of Jesus Christ is not inherently necessary for this scenario.
 
Hmmmm, well I think the actual, OTL Mormons probably aren't our guys here, so we need someone far more willing to shed blood and uproot the system than Joseph Smith. Perhaps someone with a similar history to Hong Xiuquan?
As well, if this happens around the same time as the OTL Taiping rebellion, then this will most likely delay the ACW, or alter it as we know it.
 
So inspired by some only half-serious conversation over on the Your least favourite AH tropes & motifs thread over in Non-Pol Chat lamenting the lack of Mormon Taiping Rebellion TLs .

So your challenge here is that with a PoD after 1770, craft a scenario in which the United States is torn apart in an apocalyptically violent civil war directly as the result of the charismatic leader of a new Christian offshoot or sect that happens to be in some way extremely strange compared to the rest of "mainstream" Christendom attempting to seize control of the country.

Note: However said charismatic cult leader also claiming to be the literal brother of Jesus Christ is not inherently necessary for this scenario.
One word: Imagine Utah war but bloody as Gettysburg
 
If this new sect is against slavery, It could attract half of the southern states. Maybe a sect born among slaves
Taking into account OTL Mormonism saying Jesus gave native americans his Revelation and that they descended from the israelites, very possible they would side with the surviving tribes as well
 
Taking into account OTL Mormonism saying Jesus gave native americans his Revelation and that they descended from the israelites, very possible they would side with the surviving tribes as well
Madlad Joseph Smith led a Coalition of Mormons Paramilitary, Natives tribes militias and Slaves freedom fighters traveling to Utah while the US army led by Robert e Lee and Ulysses S Grant to finally put down the Uprising...... . . . . .

I NEED THIS TO BE A BOOK SERIES' NOW!
 
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So if I had the guess something like this would probably require the United States to have a much worse history of political instability and violence, as well as just material circumstances bad enough where some charismatic cult leader actually manages to gain significant support, probably advocating for some legitimately populist policies alongside the religious stuff siphoning off support from socialist or proto socialist types depending on when exactly this is happening.

After all movements like these don't just materialize out of the aeither.
 
So if I had the guess something like this would probably require the United States to have a much worse history of political instability and violence, as well as just material circumstances bad enough where some charismatic cult leader actually manages to gain significant support, probably advocating for some legitimately populist policies alongside the religious stuff siphoning off support from socialist or proto socialist types depending on when exactly this is happening.
Could also be the case if something like the Articles of the Confederation were kept and/or a scenario along the lines of Decades of Darkness happened
Like a fragmented US wouldnt necessarily be more violent, but without the states being united(heh) they might be a easier picking for a christian rebellion whose antagonist could be a oppressive coalition of states like the Draka-est one of DoD
Such fragmentation might also make a movement like that a necessity due to the lack of a Union to protect weaker states from raids & such, lawlessness breeds ideology
After all movements like these don't just materialize out of the aeither.
Well you could always have a ASB TL where they have magic charisma, ya know~
 
If you guys want to know what Grant and Robert e Lee looks like in the 1850s where Madlad Joseph Smith led his Mormon Uprising. Then here what they look like
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Robert e Lee, 43
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Ulysses S Grant, 28
 
So if I had the guess something like this would probably require the United States to have a much worse history of political instability and violence, as well as just material circumstances bad enough where some charismatic cult leader actually manages to gain significant support, probably advocating for some legitimately populist policies alongside the religious stuff siphoning off support from socialist or proto socialist types depending on when exactly this is happening.

After all movements like these don't just materialize out of the aeither.
I know it sounds a bit ASB ish? but I just want Joseph Smith said "you know what screw it all you Mormon haters, I'm going to Utah with my army!" and that's how the Deseret war started it.

I know it's unrealistic but I just want to have some trivia with the US had to send Military stop dissenters who had weapons and equipment to invade US territory all started by Joseph Smith didn't won the election.

To me I will definitely read that awesome Althist Work
 
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So your challenge here is that with a PoD after 1770, craft a scenario in which the United States is torn apart in an apocalyptically violent civil war directly as the result of the charismatic leader of a new Christian offshoot or sect that happens to be in some way extremely strange compared to the rest of "mainstream" Christendom attempting to seize control of the country.
Just add a religious spin to the OTL Civil War. The ACW was more destructive per year when adjusted for population than the Taiping Civil War.

Ie the Tailing Rebellion saw 20-30 million killed yes, but that was over 14 years and out of a population of 420 million. That means China lost, on average, a bit under half a percent of its population per year. The US Civil War saw some 2% of the population die in the army, plus an undetermined number of civilians. That translates to somewhere over one half of a percent of the population per year.

The reason the Taiping Rebellion was so bloody was because the population of China was so huge and the war lasted over a decade, not because it was exceptionally worse than other such wars.
 
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So if I had the guess something like this would probably require the United States to have a much worse history of political instability and violence, as well as just material circumstances bad enough where some charismatic cult leader actually manages to gain significant support, probably advocating for some legitimately populist policies alongside the religious stuff siphoning off support from socialist or proto socialist types depending on when exactly this is happening.

After all movements like these don't just materialize out of the aeither.
That's pretty much why I thought about slaves since circumstances for them were bad enough, and they were half of the population in states like South Carolina or Georgia.
 
So if I had the guess something like this would probably require the United States to have a much worse history of political instability and violence, as well as just material circumstances bad enough where some charismatic cult leader actually manages to gain significant support, probably advocating for some legitimately populist policies alongside the religious stuff siphoning off support from socialist or proto socialist types depending on when exactly this is happening.

After all movements like these don't just materialize out of the aeither.
To be fair, things could get that bad in the US. The Jacksonian era could have caused much more instability and corruption that it did IOTL.
 
Just add a religious spin to the OTL Civil War. The ACW was more destructive per year when adjusted for population than the Taiping Civil War.

Ie the Tailing Rebellion saw 20-30 million killed yes, but that was over 14 years and out of a population of 420 million. That means China lost, on average, a bit under half a percent of its population per year. The US Civil War saw some 2% of the population die in the army, plus an undetermined number of civilians. That translates to somewhere over one half of a percent of the population per year.

The reason the Taiping Rebellion was so bloody was because the population of China was so huge and the war lasted over a decade, not because it was exceptionally worse than other such wars.
In terms of long term implications, though, the Taiping Rebellion was considerably worse.

For one, US came out of the war more centralized than ever while the Qing decentralized. There's the claim that the regional armies the Qing allowed regional governors to muster up were the precursors to the fully autonomous Warlord Cliques half a century later, as well. At the very minimum, the Qing authorized the creation of regional armies not under the control of the central government or military. And while decentralization isn't inherently bad, the Qing was trying to modernize and not get picked apart by foreign powers and internal squabbles for the next few decades, and that tends to work better with centralized nations (Japan's the obvious role model here).

Also, sure, only half a percent of population per year but the conflict also centered on the richest regions of China and the total war nature of the conflict meant a huge amount of arable land and wealth was burnt over and over the course of 14 years as land changed hands. Plus, the number of refugees also numbered in the tens of millions, which further disrupted internal stability and economics in the Qing Empire. Contrast that to the US Civil War, where the majority of economic power was concentrated in the North, which was not burnt to a crisp in total war. Also helps that the US Civil War, outside of Sherman's March to the Sea, was not really as focused on destruction so much as achieving victory, whereas the Qing and Taiping engaged in widespread massacres and reprisal killings. All that meant rebuilding would take far longer as well.

And, of course, the fact that the Taiping Rebellion was one of a number of rebellions happening at the same time affecting different regions, namely the Nian, Panthay, and Dungan Rebellions, all of which engaged in the aforementioned massacres and reprisal killings, and didn't really end cleanly. Taiping remnants would continue fighting into the 1870s in the border regions and disrupted the politics and economy of SE Asia, including Qing tributaries, as well. The US Civil War ended cleanly by comparison.

All of this is at least partially due to circumstances the Qing faced (domination by a hated ethnic minority that was far outnumbered by the ethnic majority, widespread famine and disease outbreaks and insufficient government responses and aid to them, a shortage of land due to a population that trebled in around 100-150 years) that the US certainly would not face. It was those circumstances that made siding with a religious madman palatable to those who just wanted to change the status quo, after all.
 
One way to do it is to have the United States become a sort of China analogue. Perhaps the POD is that it sticks with the Articles of Confederation, and then manages to land itself a humiliating defeat with the British (or Spanish or French over Louisiana, perhaps?), who as a "concession" just happen to take a treaty port. With a weak national government and that kind of national humiliation, that certainly sets the stage for a much more turbulent political history, and this chaos would certainly impact how the Second and Third Great Awakening occur. I could definitely see an American exceptionalism Christianity based on expelling the foreigners gain traction.
 
Besides the Mormons being the pick of Taiping rebellion, Which group of Christians will rebels against the American government?
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Besides the Mormons being the pick of Taiping rebellion, Which group of Christians will rebels against the American government?
There are a ton of dissenter Christians with weird ideas in America, so any one of them. Comes with the territory of being the dumping ground for any Protestants too weird for Europe. :p
 
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