Separated at Birth Discussion Thread

Separated at Birth: America and Drakia is a timeline by Ephraim Ben Raphael which is intended as a more realistic cover of the Draka series. It is available both in AH.com and in pdf form.

This thread is meant to discuss the timeline, both from a plausibility standpoint and a literary/artistic standpoint.
Pros of the timeline:
  • more plausible ideological basis of the Draka as Fascists with elements of theocracy (Jesus as Emperor for instance)
  • plausible "less nations" route
  • earlier decolonization of the British Empire and consequences of that
  • ideologies - Geoism, Societism, Rex and Situationism
Cons:
  • implausibly large Draka (all of Africa + the Middle East) as of 1960 - shouldn't include N and W Africa
  • Japanese China - not governed as a separate Empire (cf. British India) or with promotion of regional nationalisms
 
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I think it's cool that this timeline keeps getting mentioned on here despite how long it's been since it was finished! Personally, I liked the aesthetic of the maps with all the internal borders and so forth, although they were mostly just WorldAs. The way the United States annexed and kept Mexico actually made sense, in contrast to a lot of expansionist USA timelines. However, I wish there was more detail about domestic politics in the US, since there were a lot of cool ideas mentioned like Reconstruction being more successful and Native Americans having more influence. Focusing on the big picture made sense with how the timeline was written in a self-aware narrative style, which I thought was fun to read, but I think it'd be cool to expand on those things anyway. Also, I think the political divide between the Whigs and Nationals was pretty neat, somewhat mirroring the struggle of LTTW's Societism vs Diversitarianism but in a less exaggerated way.
 
I don't agree with every choice made, but I think SaB, is still an all-timer on the boards. It's such a great retelling of the Drakaverse, except with the semblance of plausibility.
 
Here is an edited map where Blue represents the Alliance of Democracy - it was hinted it could eventually become a world government covering most of the world's population and with territory on every continent except Africa had the Final War not occurred:
aod.png
 
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Also, was the expansion of the British empire to include all of Africa, Indonesia and Southeast Asia except the Philippines plausible? I felt that the British Annexation of Indonesia while France was busy occupying Europe made sense, as did the occupation by Drakia of Angola and Mozambique, but Western and Central Africa should at least have had French (if we're reducing the number of European colonizers down to two) occupation. There wasn't really an explanation why Algeria and subsequently North Africa became British other than "because" - the French occupation of Algeria OTL was due to debts incurred during the Napoleonic wars and Barbary pirates neither of which really concerned the British enough for a fullscale occupation OTL.
 
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I think it's cool that this timeline keeps getting mentioned on here despite how long it's been since it was finished! Personally, I liked the aesthetic of the maps with all the internal borders and so forth, although they were mostly just WorldAs. The way the United States annexed and kept Mexico actually made sense, in contrast to a lot of expansionist USA timelines. However, I wish there was more detail about domestic politics in the US, since there were a lot of cool ideas mentioned like Reconstruction being more successful and Native Americans having more influence. Focusing on the big picture made sense with how the timeline was written in a self-aware narrative style, which I thought was fun to read, but I think it'd be cool to expand on those things anyway. Also, I think the political divide between the Whigs and Nationals was pretty neat, somewhat mirroring the struggle of LTTW's Societism vs Diversitarianism but in a less exaggerated way.
I do have a few ideas for a SaB Expanded Universe, but mostly they delve into technology, particularly space technology, and the Republic of Selene.

Still, with that and your thoughts, might be worth pursuing.
 
Also, was the expansion of the British empire to include all of Africa, Indonesia and Southeast Asia except the Philippines plausible? I felt that the British Annexation of Indonesia while France was busy occupying Europe made sense, as did the occupation by Drakia of Angola and Mozambique, but Western and Central Africa should at least have had French (if we're reducing the number of European colonizers down to two) occupation. There wasn't really an explanation why Algeria and subsequently North Africa became British other than "because" - the French occupation of Algeria OTL was due to debts incurred during the Napoleonic wars and Barbary pirates neither of which really concerned the British enough for a fullscale occupation OTL.
That was something I also found a bit dubious. North Africa being British aside from Spanish Morocco was a bit jarring. Even if France didn't get a single crumb outside the Mediterranean, they could have still been influential in North Africa, as I've seen done in other timelines where Napoleon wins (albeit in rather different circumstances). From a writer's perspective, I suppose British expansion to the max does simplify the formation of Drakia somewhat, but they also could've occupied France's colonies during the World War or something. Maybe Germany could've been the ones to colonize Vietnam if someone absolutely has to? They were an ally of the UK so it'd probably be less of an issue than if, say, France were to stick their nose in. On a related note, Germany getting a single colony in Syria of all places was a weird move, especially when they didn't even have a Mediterranean port at that point in the timeline. However, I'm willing to give EBR points for creativity on that one.
 
Also all the Dominoes falling into place to cement Drakian rule in the middle east (Syria and Iraqi colonial administrations defecting, the Zionists collaborating rather than declaring indepdence) is really contrived
 
There are some ideas I wish were explored more on the ideological side of things. All the original ideologies were quite neat and fun to learn about, but socialism and leftism in general were pretty neglected. I get that it was probably intentional, as a way to give the more obscure ones like situationism the spotlight, but realistically they'd still be relevant somehow. With that in mind, is SaB's "socialism" what we would even consider socialism? If Marx isn't butterflied away, he would've lived within the borders of France, and his experiences would be different. There's no guarantee that Marx's ideas would be formed in the same way without observing the Revolutions of 1848, nor that they would become dominant within leftist circles without the repression of the Paris Commune. I'm not an experienced historian or political theoretician, so I don't think I could give all these factors justice in a real analysis. However, I think that the fact that socialists come to power after the World War through both elected and revolutionary means shows that things are similar enough to OTL one way or another, at least up until the early 20th century.

For a more specific look at things, here are my thoughts on the United States based on what we know from canon. I think that there would still be repression of the left for the simple reason that capitalists wouldn't want to give them an inch, particularly against committed pacifists who didn't support the war, but nothing to the level of OTL's Red Scares. Socialists would remain a smaller but committed third force in the political landscape akin to the Progressives—in fact, there is confirmation that a Socialist Party does exist in 1948 and has enough clout for one faction to support Iya Nacuaa while the other is able to nominate its own candidate. Once the People's Party is formed, then you might see the mainstream wing subsumed into it while the far left keep on chugging with a splinter or successor party. There's nothing to indicate that globalization ever occurs or the manufacturing sector in the US declines, so I'd assume there's at least some baseline level of trade unionism to maintain it as a political force. After the Final War, well that's its own kettle of fish.
 
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What happened to China?
Situationism.

After the government collapsed, the Chinese began experimenting with new avant-garde forms of government. “Situationist China” took elements from anarchism, anarcho-communism, syndicalism, and agrarian communalism with a high emphasis on artistic self-expression and national happiness.

The new Free China government eventually settled on a system mixing Situationism with democratic/libertarian-socialist elements for practicality. Their “Absolute Ruler” is Sun Wukong.

The map depicts China when it was experimenting with geometric provinces. It lasted only a year before the original provincial borders were restored.
 
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I do have a few ideas for a SaB Expanded Universe, but mostly they delve into technology, particularly space technology, and the Republic of Selene.

Still, with that and your thoughts, might be worth pursuing.
I've been thinking about what the world would look like after the Final War, and it's hard to say just what could happen. Although many of the events portrayed in SaB have real-world historical parallels, there's nothing within living memory that can relate to the apocalyptic conditions of mass death and global societal collapse that happen in TTL's 1980s. It was a chilling set of updates to read, and even though Drakia eventually collapsed under its own contradictions, the whole timeline reads as a downer in light of the ending (to say nothing of the "normal" atrocities and disasters). Nevertheless, it's interesting to really dig into the long-term impact of these events.

My thinking for SaB's United States is as follows: after Drakia falls apart in 1985, the government of Acting President Victoria Valverde is relieved. They were prepared to defend their territory from Drakian expansion, but instead they work with General Reeves' administration in Josephtown to push the "American Empire" into surrendering. On paper, the United States of America is restored. Hooray! In reality, though, there are still multiple state governments that aren't picking up the phone. Some are mollified by assurances that whoever managed to survive the chaos of *checks notes* orbital bombardment, multiple pandemics, and foreign invasion will be allowed to stay in their posts, even if the line of succession is anything but clear. The federal government has no real choice but to accept this, since other parts of the country are even more lawless. After all, the same dynamics of warlordism in places like Europe still occurred, even though they prefer to claim the mantle of the United States as "emergency governments" and are mostly composed of National Guard units, ad-hoc groups of local communities, and things like that. (I read another timeline by EBR called Stars and Stripes Forever: America After the Apocalypse which explores how an extended all-out nuclear exchange would collapse the government and what would eventually happen, and even though SaB's Final War is less brutal in some ways and moreso in others, I think it has plausible similarities that could be adapted.)

The rest of the decade is spent mopping up the various rogue states, warlords, and bandits, using the carrot (vaccines) more than the stick, until central governance is restored to some degree. Only a few states remain independent, two (Quebec and Haiti) with the tacit consent of the US government. However, this is the time when climate change starts really hitting hard. Places on the coast that may have had some hope of rebuilding previously are now doomed to languish low on the government's tottering list of priorities. For example, the West is experiencing a severe water crisis that sets off another wave of refugees, and the government manages to relocate many of them north even though the whole thing is a massive headache. The local authorities in various states need to be "guided" to hold free and fair elections—although it would be nice if they all chose to leave office after serving a duty they most likely didn't want or expect in the first place, there are other cases where the individuals in charge have grown accustomed to the power they wield and don't want to give it up, whether for personal gain or because they genuinely believe things would collapse without a stabilizing influence. Overall, there is a rally-round-the-flag effect that continues after the most immediate crises are resolved, but national trauma is never pretty.

In terms of party politics, I'm not a polisci expert, and post-apocalyptic scenarios aren't my usual cup of tea so I'm not sure what's the norm. However, I did have some thoughts on this as well. Genuine democratic involvement would take years if not decades to materialize. This would be due to a number of reasons. For one, the basic issue of being able to know who's alive and able to vote would be a bit tricky due to the mass death, damaged infrastructure, and loss in administrative capacity. The 1990 census would probably be rife with missing or misreported data, although they'd probably have more success collecting data ten years later. However, even if they did pull it off perfectly, it wouldn't matter much to the political process at this stage. The various surviving politicians came from a variety of parties, but under the circumstances they would govern as nonpartisan officials for the sake of national unity. In any case, those parties would be utterly disorganized and nonfunctional, making political contests harder even if they wanted to compete on anything. Still, democratic principles were largely adhered to, and elections were delayed as little as possible. People still turned out to vote, even though it may have just been going through the motions of normalcy. Thus, a variety of independent candidates started cropping up in the mid-90s, running on local issues or simply force of personality. Some of them won, but the nascent establishment pulled through mostly unscathed.

One way politics could really start up again in earnest could be the retirement of President Valverde. I picture her as serving two elected terms in addition to her self-appointed stint as Acting President, which would place the end of her tenure at the election of 1996. By this point, the supporters of her administration and the political status quo in general would have coalesced into some kind of party grouping. I was thinking of calling it the "Alliance Party," short for "Alliance to Rebuild America" or something equally institutional-sounding. Their nominee would sweep the election against whatever challengers emerge, but many people would be able to think beyond their present conditions now that they're not immersed in chaos and danger, and this would naturally give them the opportunity to finger-point at why things are still kind of broken. Leaders interested in maintaining power would find that it's increasingly difficult without trying to appeal to a specific voting bloc. Thus, partisanship!

There are any number of ways this could go, but my idea is the creation of a new party from the ground up. The threat of pandemics or the distance of disconnected areas with subpar infrastructure would not disrupt organizing like they had in the past. Instead, these activists would use the internet to organize local Committees of Correspondence, inspired by the ones that existed before the Revolutionary War (like the Green Party founders were IOTL). These committees would metastasize into a decentralized organization advocating for democratic confederalism and ecosocialism, which would be eventually known as, hmm, let's call them the Humanist Party. Now, would this group be called a "green party"? I'd say yes, but it's more complicated than that. Climate change and the necessity of changing human activity to solve it would be a universally accepted truth in the government, so you'd think their mission is complete. However, the Humanists' thought leaders alleged that the problems of capitalism, militarism, and general lack of regard for human life need to be solved by revolutionary change. Peaceful, yes, but revolutionary. They criticize the Alliance Party for focusing on an imagined "return to normalcy" rather than recognizing that reversing the immense damage inflicted on the world is impossible. They argue for policies like establishing co-ops to replace the subsidies the government had been pumping into the tattered remains of corporate America, and generally want to avoid returning to the wasteful system that led to the climate collapsing.
 
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I liked the timeline.

Though, I really do hate (not really lol) whoever rolled for America during the Pacific war. That 4 screwed them over hard.
Narratively, it was great. It makes it feel like Drakia gets its canon cheat mode, except that they lose anyway because fuck them.
A timeline in which the USA got a 20 and Drakia just whiffed would have had a disappointing climax.
 
it was one of the best drakaverse stories alongside The Rise and Fall of the Draka by scifilovr or The Three Eagles: A Drakaverse Story (Story Only) by mad missouri
 
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