With Russians probably having less of a cultural hatred for Latins than Romans do ittl I wonder if as a callback to ancient times they use SPQR as an abbreviation for the Senate and people of the Rus. Speaking of things like that I always wondered if ttl Romans actually had any problem with the Latin language itself and latin descended people in the empire, or whether "Latin" is more of a religious and political identifier. I doubt someone born in Rome right now who was orthodox and could speak Greek in addition to his native Italian and was loyal to the empire would be seen as a "Latin"
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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Cryostorm
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It is this, "Latin" is almost solely on religious/cultural marker for those that follow the Catholic Church or its offshoots. As you say, any Spaniard or Triune that immigrated, converted to the Orthodox Church, and learned to speak Greek would be considered as Roman as anyone born in Smyrna or Thessaloniki.
The Romans are as bigoted anyone else in this time period, but the focus is different.
I don’t either. The arguments seem to be essentially two categories.
1) They’re too Greek to be Roman. Except Roman is not an ethnic label. Rome’s success was overwhelmingly based on its willingness to bring in outsiders and make them Romans. This goes all the way back to the very earliest foundation myths about Rome’s origins.
2) Ship of Theseus; they changed too much to still be considered Roman. Except there was complete continuity during all those changes, and this argument is literally never applied to anything else. There were massive changes in Roman society from Tarquin the Super Bus to Constantine, but they’re both considered Roman with no question. The one break in continuity where I think one could make a decent case, 1204, is never invoked here either.
Personally, I think it’s the modern survival and continuation of the medieval western prejudices, which continued on into the modern period and gave us the term ‘Byzantine Empire’ (which I do think is a cool name) to distinguish them.
Not for a while. I need to clear off some of the story lines I currently have planned before adding more.
The Russians will use the phrase ‘Senate and people of the Rus’ but SPQR is an acronym for Latin, which doesn’t have any cultural resonance for the Russians as it would for, say, the Spanish.
Latin, in Roman terminology, is very much a religious/cultural/political label. A Latin who emigrated and assimilates enough won’t be considered Latin anymore, although it may be the case that the children are the first to be completely accepted, since they wouldn’t speak Greek with a foreign accent. (I’m reminded of some radio commercials here for a butchery done by a father/son combo. The son sounds completely American. The father’s English is good and completely understandable, but has an obvious accent; he’s an immigrant from Austria.) It’s also possible that someone’s Latin ancestry might be imputed against them, but that would only be if the target is disliked for other reasons. It wouldn’t be a cause by itself.
Persia under Iskandar the Younger
Persia under Iskandar the Younger:
The year 1658 marked the fifteenth year since Iskandar the Younger took the throne of the Ottoman Empire. It was a reign that could’ve started out very badly, with unflattering references to the beginning of Khusrau II’s reign. His brother Ibrahim had been defeated in large part due to Roman arms, and Mesopotamia had been lost. (The shared vassalage and tribute were a far cry from pre-existing Ottoman control.)
Two factors ensured that his rule did not begin under such a potential black cloud of illegitimacy. The first were the provisions for the protection of the hajj under Persian auspices. Due to geography the pilgrims had to move through Roman territory, since sustaining large pilgrim caravans deep in the desert was impossible. But the pilgrims were organized and guarded by Persian soldiers, even while transiting Roman territory. Roman-allied tribesmen were paid to also provide protection against desert raiders, who viewed the slow-moving and often heavily-endowed caravans as lucrative prey. However, the Persian soldiery were the main defense, with the caravan guard always commanded by a senior Ottoman official.
Some Romans had protested at allowing a substantial Persian military force repeated and regular access to Roman border territories, viewing it as a security risk. Political and diplomatic concerns won out though. To have Muslim pilgrimages participating in the hajj being escorted primarily by Christians was an unacceptable humiliation and would’ve been a massive, potentially destabilizing, blow to the Shah’s prestige. Sustaining and protecting the hajj pilgrims, on the other hand, was a massive boon to the Shah’s prestige. For the Romans to threaten or undermine that would’ve been an incredible insult demanding a violent and forceful response. That Iskandar had secured such concessions for the hajj redounded greatly to his credit.
The second was the Panipat campaign. There had been no long-term political benefits such as reestablishing control over the Punjab districts that had been held under Iskandar the Elder and early in Ibrahim’s reign, but Iskandar the Younger had accrued immense amounts of gold and glory. The invasion of northern India had clearly been a joint Persian-Roman affair (although chauvinistic historians on both sides have a long tradition of emphasizing their own and minimizing the other). Iskandar had asserted his own authority as an independent agent on the battlefield and won the loyalty of many military elements in the Ottoman state.
Iskandar, when he took the throne, had many plans for Persia, and due to his high prestige after Panipat is in a good position to implement them. Drawing inspiration from models he had seen in Rhomania, he encourages and subsidizes (in some cases) improved agricultural and industrial projects. Several swamps are drained to provide more cultivable land, roads are built, and the harbor facilities at Gamrun are enlarged. Said harbor facilities and roads help facilitate more commerce and thereby production, with an increase in raw silk, carpet, ceramic, and glass production. None of the increases are noteworthy by modern standards, but by those of the pre-industrial era they are significant.
Another area of growth is in iron production, although here the focus was on military and not economic implications. By 1660 all Persian musketeers had iron ramrods for loading, replacing wooden ramrods that broke more easily. Given that a broken ramrod makes a muzzle-loading firearm useless as a firearm, this is a noticeable improvement. Increased iron production also meant greater provision of iron tools to Persian troops, particularly spades and picks. The Ottoman military tradition, in response to Roman firepower, had emphasized field fortifications (and in siege tended to rely more on tunneling than cannonading) and this strengthened that already formidable ability.
That is not to say all was smooth sailing. Persia, like the rest of the world, is suffering from the effects of the Little Ice Age, with more erratic and extreme weather patterns. Given the lack of water transport options and Persia’s rugged terrain, maintaining control over such vast areas and funneling resources from where they are available to where they are needed is difficult at best. Grain riots and disputes between settled folk and the many pastoralists interspersed throughout the Ottoman domains are common, a constant low-level expression of discontentment and suffering.
However, the low-level rumbling, while insistent and draining, never coalesces into something more destabilizing and explosive, as is the case elsewhere. The same elements that make it difficult for the government to send troops and grain to places also make it hard for disparate dissatisfied elements to cohere. The average Persian, in contrast to her contemporary Roman, is much less informed about and interacts with others less outside her immediate regional sphere. Angry peasants and angry tribal nomads are both angry with the Ottoman government, but also angry with each other, and so cooperation between the two is hard to arrange.
Under a weaker and less responsive monarch, it is quite possible these factors could’ve been overcome. But Iskandar was not such a monarch and was able, through a mixture of carrot and stick policies, to keep the many and inevitable brushfires from flaring into anything larger. The call of Islam might’ve been the one thing that could have overpowered even this constraint, in much the same way the defense of Catholicism was what really rallied most of the German participants in the Glorious Uprising, but for several reasons to be discussed shortly, that never got off the ground, despite the efforts of some to launch it.
Another innovation Iskandar introduces is the printing press which sets up in Hamadan in 1649. Muslims were aware of printing, but up to that point the only presses in the Dar al-Islam had been set up, managed, and patronized by local Jews and Christians. [1] Even though the technology was over two hundred years old after its development in Trebizond in the early 1400s, its adoption in the Muslim world had been delayed by two major factors.
The first was the resistance to using the printing press for producing religious works. In Christendom, religious texts of all kinds, from the Bible to pamphlets to transcribed sermons, made up the bulk of printed material, even if historically these are largely forgotten. Any sort of restriction of this type in Christendom would’ve certainly starved the industry in its cradle, and had done so until now in the Dar al-Islam. The second was cultural. Arabic and Persian writing were prized for their elegant calligraphy, and printed work lacked the class of a beautiful handwritten calligraphy.
Iskandar had no patience for either of these concerns. He had greatly enjoyed the relative cheapness and wide selection of reading material in Rhomania, where the phrase ‘two-book man’ was an insult. The availability of educational material was an obvious benefit for developing the large and often technical infrastructure investment projects Iskandar desired to improve the Ottoman economy.
But he also recognized his limitations. He did not insist that the presses produce religious material; they would only be used to produce secular writings. This was a much smaller market, but with dedicated state support Iskandar was able to get the industry going. This did nothing to resolve the calligraphy issue, but since the goal was to produce educational and technical materials, the lack of elegance here was, if not desirable, at least excusable.
There is the matter of how Iskandar funded all of this. Part of it was from the confiscation of property from Ibrahim loyalists and the injection of loot from India. While much of the former ended up going out again as rewards to Iskandar loyalists or to turn people into said loyalists, much of the latter was invested in these various projects.
Another was an increased availability of credit, in contrast to the contraction in Rhomania. The Persian army in India had partially depended on Indian moneylenders to provision itself, but after returning Iskandar maintained contact. These Indian moneylenders provided one source of financing and were particularly important in funding the expanded facilities at Gamrun. Persian exports of horses to India nearly doubled between 1640 and 1660.
More credit came from Armenians and Jews, with Iskandar encouraging emigration of both groups from Rhomania to Persia during his reign. Relations between Armenians and the Romans had cooled because of disputes over religious landholdings in the Holy Land and over rights at the Holy Sepulcher in recent years, which was some inducement for Armenians to look elsewhere.
However, that factor should not be exaggerated. It did not apply at all to the Jews, for starters. As people of the Book, their rights in Persian society were roughly comparable to their status as “noble heresies” in Rhomania (unsurprisingly, since the Islamic concept had been the inspiration for the Roman), with only some details varying. So, emigration did not result in an improvement in social status. But it did, usually, result in an improvement in economic status. In Rhomania, Armenian and Jewish artisans, merchants, and moneylenders were competing in a large and diverse environment, with many competitors who did not have their social disadvantages. The Ottoman Empire was simply a much more open environment for them.
Armenian and Jewish emigres maintained contact with friends, family, and business partners that remained in Rhomania, which facilitated increased trade between Rhomania and Persia. Commerce flow increases went both ways, with the amount of custom duties for both parties slightly more than doubling between 1645 and 1660, even with a small reduction in the rates negotiated in 1655.
One increased Persian export to Rhomania was alcoholic drinks. The Muslim prohibition against wine is one that is often honored in the breach, with early modern Persia being an exceptional example. Wine was produced in large quantities by both Christians and Muslims, and taxes on its production and sale paid for much of the Ottoman army. Iskandar in 1657 said that if he abolished wine consumption in his realm, he’d lose forty thousand infantry.
Much as in Serbia, Bulgaria, and northern Macedonia, the effects of the Little Ice Age had a serious effect on wine production, with many previously marginal producers unable to sustain vines. Persian producers developed the same solution, although almost certainly independently, growing other types of fruits that would still grow such as plums and turning them into brandies. In the Aegean basin, plum brandy from Serbia and Bulgaria becomes quite popular, while plum brandy from Persia fills a similar niche in Roman Syria and Egypt.
This Persian connection is partially responsible for why Greek-speakers usually call this specific type of plum brandy raki, which is not Greek but Turkish in origin. The most successful brandy producers in Persia were of Turkish origin, and their term ‘raki’ stuck to their product. Its export to Rhomania popularized the term. Furthermore, while raki was made across a large spread throughout the Haemic Peninsula, the best raki was said to come from certain districts in Upper Macedonia. These areas had been heavily settled by Turks transported from Anatolia during the late 1200s by the Laskarid Emperors, and even in the 1600s these districts maintained a strong Turkish flair. Thus, their product was also styled raki, as a mark of quality to distinguish it from other brandies produced elsewhere. (The exotic term also made for a good marketing ploy, even though it might’ve been made just a few dozen kilometers away.) Gradually, the term raki overpowered all other competitors in the Roman lexicon, to the point where today it refers to all plum brandies and not just specific brands as was the case in the mid-1600s.
Iskandar faced opposition in these reforms and changes. Conservative ulema were highly critical of the alcohol production and consumption, were suspicious of the printing press with its Christian origins, and resented the arrival of heathen Armenians and Jews. Iskandar was able to parry this threat for several reasons.
The Shah had strong Islamic credentials for his patronage and protection of the hajj. It was done in cooperation with the Romans, but for most Muslims the key factor was being able to undertake the pilgrimage, and Iskandar had ensured that. Furthermore, with his revenues Iskandar had also endowed many waqfs, Islamic charitable endowments, that provided soup kitchens, hospitals, and madrasas.
With these, Iskandar had won the support of other ulema. They approved of the charitable endowments (and were willing to overlook the wine, largely because they liked to imbibe themselves) and were not against innovations simply because Christians had originated them. They argued that while a Christian was wrong on religious grounds, that didn’t mean a hammer they’d made was a bad hammer.
Opponents of Iskandar were painted as puritan killjoys who were also greedy, resenting the waqf endowments going to the poor and needy rather than themselves. (The latter accusation is true in some cases, and false in others.) With the ulema divided and the counter-message not having deep resonance outside of small circles, there was no broader unifying narrative that might have bound up the localized discontent and turned it into something broader and deeper.
As a result, Persia avoided the level of social upheaval that rocked many other states across the world in the mid-1600s. That is not to say it was good times in Persia. Historians estimate that between five hundred thousand and eight hundred thousand Persians (5 to 8%) of the population died from famine or disease during this period, beyond what would be considered the usual demographic rates. It is a chilling testament to the age, of this “world of shaking”, that this constituted a brilliant success.
[1] This is following OTL. The earliest Muslim printing presses, in the Ottoman Empire, were nearly three centuries after their development in Germany.
IMO they're too close together for their goals to never overlap. I don't doubt they can go a few centuries without war, but I think the inherently militarist politics of this era make modern-style "0% chance of war between these two countries for the foreseeable future" pretty difficult to achieve.
Iskander could double down on his popularity and invest in the arts, such as calligraphy schools to raise the prestige of said form. A present to his "Nephew" in Constantinople of Heraklios' name in the finest Persian calligraphy painted on a silk tapestry would help it's profile, at least in Rhomania. One to Henri as well, for the historical help the Triunes had been to the Ottomans during the time of Triune Bengal.
A charm offensive could help open up more markets, even if having to pass through Roman Mediterranean ports. I'm sure equitable duties could be negotiated with the regency government.
I think the Persians should do what iskander is doing for the next few centuries. Focus on internal development and economic growth. They already control the entire Persian gulf coast outside of Oman. They control all of chagatai speaking transoxiana and samarkand, they've got all of baluchistan and Afghanistan. Yeah Mesopotamia might hurt a bit but that's technically a vassal. I dont see any point in military expansionism which will likely cost more than it earns. Trying to build a strong ottoman national identity among the non turk/Persian population should he another goal. Probably could be helped by trying to spread the Persian language
I'm really interested in seeing what late 20th Century early 21st Century "contemporary" Persian art becomes ITTL, especially if there's some big old Persian renaissance centered exclusively on lending new prestige to indigenous and/or traditional art forms that influences the discourse 4 centuries on.
the problem is a new ruler would be different from the previous one, so there is an equal chance that either he could continue Iskander's policy, or he could change it, also with Russia encroaching in central Asia, is it possible we could see Persia being partitioned by the Romania, Georgia, Mesopotamia and Russia
Cryostorm
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It really depends honestly, I mean, yes they have fought for centuries, millennia actually, but, to be blunt, for what? The border right now is little different than the Roman-Parthian border set during Trajan's and Hadrian's reign 1,500 years prior.
Besides, to an extent, a strong north and eastern focused Ottomans are actually a benefit to Rhomania as it keeps Russia and China, and Vijayanagara from utterly dominating Central Asia and India respectively.
Long term if they can come to an understanding that Levant and the Armenian/Azerbaijan/Kurdish highlands belong to Rome and Georgia but respectively Central and Southern Mesopotamia and Eastern Arabia are the Ottomans they could conceivably have a relatively stable border that would allow both major nations to focus on other directions, plus allow them both to have one large and prosperous trade partner.
The trickiest bit is probably going to be Russia and it's greater ambitions. But if Rome and Georgia both try to get them to the table they could possibly set up a framework for their spheres of influence/expansion.
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Just catching up on the story line really enjoying the updates though. Interesting to see how the world responds to little ice age and the social/climatic effects it will unleash.
There has now been this branch for 15+ years by the time cologne happens and they don't send anyone at all. To a conference of all the major powers that they are tasked with having relations with. I'm not even suggesting a delegation or anything major. I'm saying send some mid-level diplomat whose on sabbatical with their minimum assurances that Rome could accept who sets up in a hotel off the beaten path and speaks with other low to mid level diplomats about what will and won't be accepted. Between this clause and the various clauses relating to Vlachia's borders there would have to be at least some type of discussion to make sure Rome doesn't lose their minds at the clause and go on the warpath. If a separate delegation is too much even just add in a couple Russian diplomats who seem a lot more comfortable in Greek than Russian.
To use this clause what exactly constitutes an invasion worthy of drawing the Triunes in. It's all well and good to say we don't plan to do it so who cares but if in 15 years Hungary-Austria decides to invade Vlachia and Rome gets sucked in what are they allowed to do. Does any Roman intervention have to end at the Hungarian-Austrian border? Is the treaty null if it a war of aggression that triggers that intervention? What actually makes it an invasion. If a single Roman cavalry company raids some random Austrian village during a hypothetical war are the Triunes treaty bound to send 150,000 soldiers? If Rome strips Hungary totally in Great Crime fashion but doesn't cross into Austrian territory is that hunky-dory? These are the sorts of things that would need to be discussed and would need someone from Rome to discuss it with.
Overall it's a minor thing it just stood out to me and didn't jive with the whole "Rome recently re-did their whole foreign service specifically so that the West wouldn't be ignored again" and than promptly didn't attend a conference of the whole Latin west.
Though I don't dispute her reasoning nor do I dispute the reasons in story for why I can't help but feel just this would entail some sort of Roman representative in Cologne if only to understand Roman red lines. Rome may be disengaged from the west but like it or not 3 major powers with whom Rome has warred with in the last generation are all in a room together negotiating things that also affect Rome and there isn't anyone at all to speak to? It just doesn't jive with the previous update outlining how after the Italian fiasco Rome set up a separate branch of their foreign service specifically to deal with the "Latin West".
There has now been this branch for 15+ years by the time cologne happens and they don't send anyone at all. To a conference of all the major powers that they are tasked with having relations with. I'm not even suggesting a delegation or anything major. I'm saying send some mid-level diplomat whose on sabbatical with their minimum assurances that Rome could accept who sets up in a hotel off the beaten path and speaks with other low to mid level diplomats about what will and won't be accepted. Between this clause and the various clauses relating to Vlachia's borders there would have to be at least some type of discussion to make sure Rome doesn't lose their minds at the clause and go on the warpath. If a separate delegation is too much even just add in a couple Russian diplomats who seem a lot more comfortable in Greek than Russian.
To use this clause what exactly constitutes an invasion worthy of drawing the Triunes in. It's all well and good to say we don't plan to do it so who cares but if in 15 years Hungary-Austria decides to invade Vlachia and Rome gets sucked in what are they allowed to do. Does any Roman intervention have to end at the Hungarian-Austrian border? Is the treaty null if it a war of aggression that triggers that intervention? What actually makes it an invasion. If a single Roman cavalry company raids some random Austrian village during a hypothetical war are the Triunes treaty bound to send 150,000 soldiers? If Rome strips Hungary totally in Great Crime fashion but doesn't cross into Austrian territory is that hunky-dory? These are the sorts of things that would need to be discussed and would need someone from Rome to discuss it with.
Overall it's a minor thing it just stood out to me and didn't jive with the whole "Rome recently re-did their whole foreign service specifically so that the West wouldn't be ignored again" and than promptly didn't attend a conference of the whole Latin west.
Who knew an expensive war with costs and benefits disproportionate to regions would fan the flames of regionalism. Looks like Henry has been too smart by half.
Well doesn't that just make life interesting. The Irish may be more loyal but I would bet the English are a lot more valuable. An interesting choice to make.
Something about proto-liberalism originating in Russia and spreading from there is just hilarious too me.
Well that's ominous. None of those periods are known for their triumphs. I am eagerly awaiting what the Army of Suffering actually is.
Totally unrelated to the story but it is crazy to me how difficult it used to be to transport people/things that 3 people a day over a sustained period merits the term "Great". Just goes to show how difficult and expensive it is to transport anything before steam engines are a thing.
It always seemed to me that Ethiopia becoming a colonial power while it still had open frontiers to the west and south and vast regions that were practically independent was a little over ambitious and looks like that has played itself out. Ethiopia was a glass jaw that had no ability to make good losses, one strong punch and it knocked them out. They are still a strong regional player but they are probably going to be a non-entity outside of Africa and the southern Arabian peninsula now.
A good reminder that Spain wasn't uniquely awful for their chattel slavery as compared to the "enlightened" American approach. Just that circumstances dictate how the slaves are used. Mainland America had room to treat them with a minimum humanity, the Caribbean islands do not have that room.
Interesting that Rome still wants to jockey for some power in Northern Italy. So Rome still stands as the undisputed heavyweight in the East. Even a slow rebuilding with all the infrastructure under their control will mean their lead is essentially unassailable now by anyone from Europe.
I am reminded of wayyyyy back in the timeline when a Roman Emperor in getting support from Lombardy for a civil war simply accepted that the Lombard King was a legitimate descendent of a long dead emperor; it is too far to remember when or who exactly; and how that legitimacy was used generations later to cause trouble. Certain bells once they are rung cannot be un-rung. Spain has accepted diplomatically that Heraklios III is descended in a line that goes all the way to Julius Ceasar and the Republic before him. It is the sort of understated triumph that will probably come to nothing but could always come to something. At least in the court of Spain Roman ambassadors will now always get to be front of the line in the Order of Precedence if they weren't already; Emperor+Rome (oldest emperor) means nothing barring some future Chinese ambassador has even the slightest claim to contest it.
I enjoyed this update. Nice to see he is working on strengthening his realm as it is rather than trying to expand it. Persia will always be weaker pound for pound than Rome because they don't have a convenient body of water linking most of their major cities but that doesn't mean they can't be stronger than they are. Also very interesting about the printing press; a whole century earlier than OTL should do wonders in allowing Persia to keep up with the times.
I think it was theodore the iv (father of Andreas nikites) that acknowledged that the king of Lombardy was a descendant of Thomas lascaris or something like that to get support in a war against the mamaluks, Venice and Serbia(the serbs killed Theodore didn't they?) i don't remember that much... I mean when is started reading this tl back in 2011 i was only like 13 years and in middle school and now i am 24 and soon enough i about to start my master's degree in emergency and intensive care nursing...so basically basileus 444's tl(more like a massive novel) was and is still an important part of my life
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Cryostorm
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It was less they weren't interested in being there and more than none of the other party's requested they be invited, and Athena decided it largely wasn't worth the effort to antagonize everyone by forcing their presence. Athena probably figured that anything that would be overly threatening to Rhomania would be quietly adjusted by Russia and Hungary, one because it could also threaten them and the other because they would be the first one's in the path of vengeance.
But what is "threatening". That means different things to different people. What the conference decides isn't threatening could set off alarm bells within the Roman court. Hence why there should be someone, even in an unofficial capacity or as part of the Russian delegation, that can clearly articulate what Rome would consider threatening.
To give an example from the conference; when it was decided to recognize Hungary-Austria's interpretation of their boundary dispute with Vlachia; there would need to be some type of assurance that this wouldn't violate some Roman understanding with Hungary and/or Vlachia and trigger an immediate reaction. This conference that was clearly meant to end all the wars ongoing in Central/Eastern Europe/Northern Europe would need some type of representative from Rome to make sure they didn't inadvertently start something new in Southern Europe. A single diplomat settled on the outskirts of town or as a minor functionary within the Russian delegation who can say "we have no qualms about claims so long as there is no attempt to enforce them by force of arms" is all I am suggesting but it is something that I think would be required. Of course I'm not the author so my interpretation is really just my opinion and this or that minor quibble doesn't detract from my general enjoyment of the story/timeline.
I agree this is very important point to note, considering how the crisis during the 60's manifested due to lack of any real idea on those red lines.
And today we're seeing that again when one country blatantly destroyed almost all diplomatic relations. By ignoring the pleas and reasoning by the other state.
He is well placed. If the best place for prestige, patronage, and money is at the royal court and in government service rather than out in rural holdings, they’ll go to the royal court of their own accord. Doesn’t mean they can’t cause trouble, but they’ll try to take over the system rather than try to break away from it to rule their own patch. Iskandar isn’t gunning after Persian elites, but he is making the Shah’s court a more attractive option.
There was a period of 100+ years in late antiquity, centered on the 400s, where Roman-Persian relations were surprisingly peaceful because both Empires had so much on their plates elsewhere. There is only going to be one more war between the two. That said, they won’t know it at the time, and there will be scares in the future. But essentially both sides decide that while they have issues and disputes, the game is just not worth the candle, for both sides. Better to go do other things.
While this is much latter and subject to change, I am imagining a modern Ottoman Empire with something like current borders, where the Shahanshah can say “I am the OPEC”, where Roman-Ottoman relations are good because the Ottomans make lots of oil and then pump it through pipelines to Roman terminals on the Mediterranean for shipment to Europe, and both parties make a lot of money on the deal.
I agree. (Doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll listen to me.) I think both Persia and Rhomania would be well advised to focus on internal growth and development. They’d both be in better shape if they weren’t pouring so much of their energy into mauling each other.
@JSC: I really enjoy your detailed and insightful commentary. Thank you. Please note my response regarding treaty issues below. I decided to put it in its own heading since some other people commented on it.
The treaty: The Romans weren’t there because nobody wanted to invite them, and Athena reasoned that trying to push this issue wouldn’t help relations. And no matter what she’d do, the war hawks would scream at her, so might as well take the course of action that is the least effort. They could stay informed through the Russians…somehow.
But that is quite true that it means there could be no Roman input. For the Rhine that’s not the problem, but is an issue with the other side of the HRE. The signatories wanted to secure an agreement that everyone could live with NOW, so they weren’t that concerned with the fine points on what was a less important issue, and they wouldn’t have been able to come up with one without the Romans in the room anyway.
It is a flaw in the treaty, and that is going to have serious repercussions down the road, because while there’s a red line around here somewhere, but it’s not clear where exactly. This is a gun that is going to go off later in the story, because of those inherent issues in the Treaty of Cologne on this topic.
The latest section of Not the End: The Empire Under the Laskarids has been posted on Patreon for Megas Kyr patrons. Manuel II now turns his eye on what he views as, and what will be, the coda to the Laskarid era of reconquest, the retaking of Cyprus and Antioch.
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