"For Balance of Powers, Country, and Purges!" - Joe Steele as the new Lord Protector.Guess the ideal timeline for these guys would've been a british "Joe Steele"?
What is a common thing or trope that always seem to happen?
- Thread starter Viking25
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Goddamn it give me a Stalinist British Empire already
Sorry for the belated response and thank you for the detailed breakdown,, that was certainly an engaging read. I definitely agree with some aspects, IE the misremembered history, misattributed accomplishments ETC, but confess I've seen little reference to Nazi bungling despite there being plenty of it.
Abuse doesn't inherently lead to a lack of empathy, but I do agree that the lack of consideration for the kind of moral burdens one grapples with can feel a bit weird, though not everyone thinks so deeply on those fronts.
Why would they destroy Italy? And I never said they were buffoons' (exactly) but their conceited belief in their own superiority led them to pious and arrogant methodology, they only got France because of a fascist movement doing the leg work for them, their fuel and industry reserves were garbage compared to most of their enemies. Its a borderline miracle they did the damage they did; which isn't to undermine the horrific harm they caused, but just cos someone does a lot of harm it doesn't meant they are actually smart or powerful.
Agreed, I didnt mean abuse = apathy(would be odd saying that considering what I went through), I meant that it would either require them to lack empathy or have dealt with something that made them resentful of the uptimer world they lived in
It was just a random example
My point was just that you could make a timeline where the Nazis were worse somewhere(thus that example) in a rather horrifying way without wanking them to the point of conquering America and shit
Usually more apparent in modern fiction, in the immediate post-war they were still portrayed as terrible enemies. It's when you spend more time that you start with the idea of portraying the Nazis as stupid who would just have to be left alone to start shooting themselves in their own feet. Think that all or almost all ridiculously stupid villains behave and dress like Nazis. Characters in Nazi movies tend to be constantly talking about how stupid Nazis are. etc.
The idea rather I think it would be that being abused leads to wanting revenge on the world. But I think part of the problem is also what I call "corporate-political management": the author's assumption that running a country is like running a business.
This is why we have so many SIs who behave as if they were CEOs instead of as if they were rulers (decreeing things on a whim, giving no explanations, focusing only on their goal, considering everything else only to the extent that it helps or hinders those plans) ).
But at the same time we see that SIs, because they (usually) come from democratic societies, have been brought up to believe that democracy (in its American or British variant) is good and important. And so they try to implement the outward signs of an American government (suffrage, parliament, equality laws, minority protection laws) even if they show that in practice they don't understand how a democracy is supposed to work.
(Spoiler alert, it's not based on the idea that the King/President is absolute, plenipotentiary, and can override the decisions of all the rest of the government, or impose arbitrary decisions in their place, without needing to explain or justify why is doing that)
In fact that's the kind of stupid thing that fits nicely into what I described as "Nazis portrayed as buffoons". I mean, one of Dick's important points was that the Nazis wanted to destroy Japan "because we can," as well as Italy being irrelevant, even though they were supposed to be allies.
As discussed in this and other threads, I think another reason a lot of people are offended by the idea of Nazis being portrayed as stupid is because of the implication.
I mean the implicit idea that the allies were even more stupid to allow themselves to be defeated by such a bunch of idiots. Something I talked about when developing the "economist thesis": it relies too much on everyone else catching all the idiot balls at once.
To be honest if that was played straight(rather than by accident) it'd be very interesting
Like the SI pretty much turning the government into a corporocracy with themselves as the CEO but keeping "social democracy" characteristics because they are so attached to those
Kiwi was even talking with me about a similar idea in chat
Like a SI pulling a Bob but trying to create Norway instead of the United States, resulting in a Zaibatsu with a welfare state similar to the United Fruit Company
Also yes thats precisely what I meant
I wanna make a SI whose the sole reason to accept going back in time is revenge and "to fix things" because I think that makes more sense than they being so altruistic about creating a "better world" yet feel no guilt whatsoever about their butterflied away family & friends
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Sorry, reference to a TL both me and Mitridates follow here
It was a SI who first wanted to turn Rome into the US and when that didnt work he tried to recreate the UK we know and love in Britannia, didnt go well
Ah I see, fair, fair.
I was mostly surprised cos I was under the impression the Nazis and Italians were allies.
Hmm, I guess I just don't watch much of that kind of media so I miss it perhaps?
Honestly given how many people I see confused by what a President can or can't do I'm not entirely surprised some SI's would think the role basically means king.
Mhm I do think a general "They did so much harm, they have to have been effective, cos the other reality is somehow worse to consider" could definitely play into it. Though darkly amusing with the allies, there was an element of that RL if I recall given Hitler was quite popular in England until he, ya know, invaded.
Oh god that sounds even more cursed than my idea of making evangelism called that because it's based on the teachings of a woman named Evangeline
. Though in that case I think I'd ignore the whole "evangelism is just an even crazier, more evil version of Calvinism" thing I'm attracted to the idea of an SI trying to take revenge on the world, in fact I think that's how I would do it if I was inserted in a work that I didn't like.
In fact my idea for Harry Potter's SI was supposed to be this: the character has no respect for the canon and is dedicated to intentionally derailing it by trying to fix things.
(Why doesn't he just walk away and let the wizarding world collapse? Let's just say the ASB made it clear to him that trying to do that would have dire consequences for the character...)
Then we'll have a great time! I may like Code Geass a bit too much~
Mitridates in "What Madness is This" when?
Eh, kill the weird Voldmort fetus and the Horcruxes in chapter 1 and blow up the Ministry of Magic in chapter 2?
Seriously the only thing standing between a evil wizard and absolute power there is a high school, not exactly a hard target
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If it was that easy, it would not need seven books for the main character to achieve only the first half of what you said.
Ministry of Magic probably is not limited solely to that one building
I remind you that no one seriously tried to destroy the Ministry of Magic.
As for Voldemort, the whole point was that no one knew exactly how to make him stay dead for good. That's why it took so long to destroy it.
And I suppose the SI has read the books and knows what to do. Well, as long as it is not like an "Indie!Harry" fic, it's fine
I dont wanna make this discussion about HP, so I'll keep this short
The main character was a 10 year old child tho, not a reader with meta knowledge
In the books Im not sure if that's ever addressed, but in the movie adaptation it was just that building
Yup
Which was rather simple when you think about it, one "Avada Kadavra" to each horcrux(I think it was seven in total) which you as a reader would know the location, then bam problem solved
Agreed
I mean the reason of Canon takes seven books for destroying Voldemort is because this lack of kmowledge
What is an "Indie!Harry"?
Harry but he's a streamer who uses magic spells named after Green Day?