Divergent Longitudes: an East-West swap scenario
- Thread starter shearsforest
- Start date
I actually just thought of something, perhaps the Magyars or the Turks could be our Mongolian standin. the Magyars were, AFAIK, the last major migratory tribe to break into Europe and stick around, and the turks are pretty similar on the surface level.
also, contrary to everyone else, i think korea could make more sense for "Britain," or perhaps a spain, since it has more natural resources a small enough border to the rest of asia it makes sense for them to be navally minded.
also i think that by sheer size, japan makes more sense to be a collection of states and kingdoms of varying levels of power, somewhat like scandinavia, and OTL feels really weird about that
also, contrary to everyone else, i think korea could make more sense for "Britain," or perhaps a spain, since it has more natural resources a small enough border to the rest of asia it makes sense for them to be navally minded.
also i think that by sheer size, japan makes more sense to be a collection of states and kingdoms of varying levels of power, somewhat like scandinavia, and OTL feels really weird about that
On that note, some sort of Emishi/Ainu state could be the Finland equivalent.
Deleted member 165942
I mean Ezo/Hokkaido was it's own thing for centuries after all, it wasn't until the Meiji Restoration that it became an official part of Japan and then name was changed to Hokkaido. But then again Brittain is basically made up of multiple kingdoms, there's a reason why it's called the United Kingdom after all, we have Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.
Last edited by a moderator:
And them being very distinct from the rest of Japan culturally, ethnically, and linguistically would make them good equivalents to the Finns (with how Finns speak a Uralic language while the rest of Scandinavia speak North Germanic language and all that).
true, it could unite later but considering the size difference i still think it would be sorta like a scndinavia than a britain
EQUIVALENTS // Chinese People
I've decided to keep track of people and their established equivalents in OTL thus far.
Key
OTL equivalent — TTL equivalent
QIN DYNASTY
Qin Shi Huang (Qin dynasty's first and most famous ruler) — Julius Caesar/Emperor Julian
Qin Er Shi (Qin Shi Huang's lesser sucessor) — Caesar Veturius/Emperor Veturian; no OTL equivalent, hypothetical 4th child of Julius Caesar
Li Si (assistant to Qin Shi Huang and Qin Er Shi) — Mark Antony
Zhao Gao (eunuch instrumental in bringing down the Qin dynasty) — ???
Ziying of Qin (rump final ruler of Qin dynasty) — ???
EIGHTEEN KINGDOMS / CHU-HAN STRUGGLE
Xiang Yu (ruler of Chu) — Sextus Pompey
Liu Bang/Gaozu of Han (ruler of Han; first Han emperor) — Gaius Octavius/Emperor Augustus
HAN DYNASTY
...
Xian of Han (last emperor of the Han dynasty) — (Marcus Aurelius) Severus Alexander(?)
Dong Zhuo (Chinese warlord) — ???
THREE KINGDOMS
Cao Cao (ruler of Cao Wei) — Gallienus(?)
Sun Quan (ruler of Eastern Wu) — Postumus(?)
Liu Bei (ruler of Shu Han) — Odaenathus(?)
Key
OTL equivalent — TTL equivalent
QIN DYNASTY
Qin Shi Huang (Qin dynasty's first and most famous ruler) — Julius Caesar/Emperor Julian
Qin Er Shi (Qin Shi Huang's lesser sucessor) — Caesar Veturius/Emperor Veturian; no OTL equivalent, hypothetical 4th child of Julius Caesar
Li Si (assistant to Qin Shi Huang and Qin Er Shi) — Mark Antony
Zhao Gao (eunuch instrumental in bringing down the Qin dynasty) — ???
Ziying of Qin (rump final ruler of Qin dynasty) — ???
EIGHTEEN KINGDOMS / CHU-HAN STRUGGLE
Xiang Yu (ruler of Chu) — Sextus Pompey
Liu Bang/Gaozu of Han (ruler of Han; first Han emperor) — Gaius Octavius/Emperor Augustus
HAN DYNASTY
...
Xian of Han (last emperor of the Han dynasty) — (Marcus Aurelius) Severus Alexander(?)
Dong Zhuo (Chinese warlord) — ???
THREE KINGDOMS
Cao Cao (ruler of Cao Wei) — Gallienus(?)
Sun Quan (ruler of Eastern Wu) — Postumus(?)
Liu Bei (ruler of Shu Han) — Odaenathus(?)
Last edited:
I wonder if you can work in Justinian and Belisarius somehow. Nice equivalents, keep up the good work.
That'd be equivalent to a split between northern China and southern China during the 5th century, which would actually fit nicely during the Northern and Southern dynasties period.
Presumably both can be rulers of a Liang-dynasty equivalent?
Speaking of which, maybe we could have Alaric the Visigoth be equivalent to Emperor Daowu of Northern Wei?
The biggest difference between China and continental Europe that’s hard to reconcile is the fact that Europe doesn’t have a strong core ethnicity that outnumbers all the others. China today is like 90% Han, while Russians and Germans, the largest ethnic groups in Europe, each make up less than 20% of Europe’s population. The only way to get around that is if different groups like Germans, Gauls and Latins merged over time into one somewhat coherent ethnic/racial group, the same way native Britons, Angles, Saxons and Vikings merged into one English identity (with Latin taking the place of English in this case). That way you’d have a strong ethnic core in central Europe that can spread and dominate the rest of the continent.
On the other hand, having China splinter into different linguistic and ethnic groups over time is probably a bit easier.
On the other hand, having China splinter into different linguistic and ethnic groups over time is probably a bit easier.
Last edited:
I mean, latin Europe is a term already despite ethnic differences due to linguistic and cultural similarities. If the empire never fell I don't see why they wouldn't be seen as one group
Both the Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty had a common language which would continue as the lingua franca of their region for thousands of years after the fall of the actual states. And for both of them, the common population's version of that language would splinter into dozens of mutually unintelligible dialects. The reason why today we can speak of a "Han ethnicity" but there is no such thing as a "Roman ethnicity" is because the Chinese state resurrected itself in the 4th and 5th centuries AD under the Sui and Tang, while Charlemagne and Justinian's efforts to do the same in Europe were short-lived. As we all know, a language is a dialect with an army. Similarly, a common state structure leads to a common identity.
As one of my friends says, Chinese history is basically the equivalent of Roman history if Rome was restored by Theodoric the Great.
Yeah, the comparison is too good to pass up. Though in that case Britain would need an ancient ruling dynasty that rules the island for thousands of years, similar to the house of Yamato. Maybe a native chieftain of dubios historicity is regarded as the royal ancestor of this British dynasty, similar to Emperor Jimmu in Japan? And a celtic folk religion takes the place of shintoism (though Christianity also exists, similar to Buddhism in Japan)?
Deleted member 165942
So for Japan to be a more accurate British analogue, the House of Yamato can't rule it for a thousand years like irl, so maybe a harsher end of the Heian Period that ends with the House being overthrown or going extinct can happen, with the Minamotos taking over.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe have Koreans conquer the place as an equivalent to the Norman Invasion?