Didn't the PLC join the Great Northern War because King Augustus wanted to make the title hereditary?I think becoming de facto hereditary would work for the PLC if the nobles' power were curbed.
Didn't the PLC join the Great Northern War because King Augustus wanted to make the title hereditary?I think becoming de facto hereditary would work for the PLC if the nobles' power were curbed.
Augustus II definitely wanted the PLC to become an absolute monarchy. He failed though.Didn't the PLC join the Great Northern War because King Augustus wanted to make the title hereditary?
It was de facto hereditiary until Vasas passed out.I think becoming de facto hereditary would work for the PLC if the nobles' power were curbed.
It's that ittl the Kalmar Union exists so the Vasa dynasty wouldn't be able to become monarchs of the PLC.It was de facto hereditiary until Vasas passed out.
I think becoming de facto hereditary would work for the PLC if the nobles' power were curbed.
Ofc but it didn't happen in otl and the nobles were able to take back power.If the Polish kings are able to make the crown hereditary, the nobility’s power will automatic become curbed, simply because if the kings don’t need to bribe the nobility every succession, they will slowly accumulate land, wealth and power, and they will be able to increase power through giving titles and privileges as bribes, and play the different actors out against each other.
Tbf I wanted it to be the Oldenburgs because they basically have to deal with something similar with the PLC and managing to centralise power.An update on the Polish dynasty vote:
If things hold, it looks like Poland-Lithuania will be under a native Polish dynasty upon the death of Sigismund II. I know pretty much nothing about Polish dynastic politics of this era, so if one of you could suggest a noble house to rule Poland-Lithuania, that'd be greatly appreciated. As for the Oldenburgs, I'll probably have an Oldenburg noblewoman marry into whatever Polish dynasty ends up running the PLC, thus giving those who voted for the Oldenburgs a consolation prize.
- Native Polish Dynasty: 7 Votes
- Oldenburgs: 5 Votes
- Habsburgs: 2 Votes
- Valois: 1 Vote
- Other: 1 Vote
That's why I think having a branch of the Oldenburgs take over is the best for you ittl.Snip
I think it's a perfectly logical option, but I'm hesitant to do it for two reasons. First, it'd be going against the results of the poll, where the plurality wanted a native Polish dynasty, albeit only by a single vote, and secondly because it'd be making this TL more of a wank than I want it to be. While this TL is definitely going to be charitable to the Kalmar Union, I want it to be within a reasonable boundary, I'm not just going to have a Scandinavian-Polish alliance beat down the Muscovites/Russians, as much as my Scandinavian/Polish heritage may like that.That's why I think having a branch of the Oldenburgs take over is the best for you ittl.
You can have the Scandinavian-polish alliance only work once. Like have two brothers/Kalmar + Poland-Lithuania personal union crush the Russians then have them quarrel over the Baltic coast.I think it's a perfectly logical option, but I'm hesitant to do it for two reasons. First, it'd be going against the results of the poll, where the plurality wanted a native Polish dynasty, albeit only by a single vote, and secondly because it'd be making this TL more of a wank than I want it to be. While this TL is definitely going to be charitable to the Kalmar Union, I want it to be within a reasonable boundary, I'm not just going to have a Scandinavian-Polish alliance beat down the Muscovites/Russians, as much as my Scandinavian/Polish heritage may like that.
I agree. With Russia crushed, they turn on each other.You can have the Scandinavian-polish alliance only work once. Like have two brothers/Kalmar + Poland-Lithuania personal union crush the Russians then have them quarrel over the Baltic coast.
Sharing a dynasty isn’t a guaranteed eternal alliance, look at how well the Swedish and Polish Vasas got along for example.I'm not just going to have a Scandinavian-Polish alliance beat down the Muscovites/Russians, as much as my Scandinavian/Polish heritage may like that.
Yes. The first generation or two of the dynastic union can have their glorious annihilation of Russia. And then when the bonds of kinship fade into distant irrelevance and their shared enemy is gone, watch them turn upon each other for the spoils of Russia and Siberia in a glorious squabble! See them plot against each other to claim the throne of each other’s country!So, with all things considered, should I just say screw it and have the Oldenburgs take the Polish-Lithuanian throne?
Maybe have them join back together in ittl WWI if this tl gets that far but yeah have them try murder each other most of the time.Yes. The first generation or two of the dynastic union can have their glorious annihilation of Russia. And then when the bonds of kinship fade into distant irrelevance and their shared enemy is gone, watch them turn upon each other for the spoils of Russia and Siberia in a glorious squabble! See them plot against each other to claim the throne of each other’s country!
I'm not gonna have this be a complete and total Russia screw. I don't see any reason for them to not colonize Siberia and beat back the Tatars and other steppe nomads in the south, but they're probably going to be locked out of the Baltic for a while. As for Nordic-PLC relations, I think your description is plausible. They're certainly not going to be BFFs, even with a shared ruling house.Yes. The first generation or two of the dynastic union can have their glorious annihilation of Russia. And then when the bonds of kinship fade into distant irrelevance and their shared enemy is gone, watch them turn upon each other for the spoils of Russia and Siberia in a glorious squabble! See them plot against each other to claim the throne of each other’s country!
I certainly hope this TL makes it to the 20th Century, but it did take EC/FC several years to get there, and this starts over a century further back, so we're probably going to have to wait a while for the TL to get that far.Maybe have them join back together in ittl WWI if we get that far but yeah have them try murder each other most of the time.
It's definitely fine TLs spanning hundreds of years take time to get there.I certainly hope this TL makes it to the 20th Century, but it did take EC/FC several years to get there, and this starts over a century further back, so we're probably going to have to wait a while for the TL to get that far.
Tbf I want this to be a total Russia screw just because of how rare it is. Even having the Russians be stuck in Siberia and Central Asia would make things very very interesting.I'm not gonna have this be a complete and total Russia screw. I don't see any reason for them to not colonize Siberia and beat back the Tatars and other steppe nomads in the south, but they're probably going to be locked out of the Baltic for a while. As for Nordic-PLC relations, I think your description is plausible. They're certainly not going to be BFFs, even with a shared ruling house.
Legit. Russia screws are rare. Screw Russia. It's not implausible either, the PLC marched into Moscow.It's definitely fine TLs spanning hundreds of years take time to get there.
Tbf I want this to be a total Russia screw just because of how rare it is. Even having the Russians be stuck in Siberia and Central Asia would make things very very interesting.