Tbf having the Valois or even the Oldenburgs centralise the empire is a fun prospect and I could see the PLC have an ally in the Kalmar Union to combat Russia considering the Kalmar Union would like to have Finland and the Baltic States while the PLC would like to have Ukraine and stuff.
Union of The Three Crowns: The History of The Nordic Empire
- Thread starter Gabingston
- Start date
Yep. They can work together to beat up Russia. Kalmar can claim Kola and Finland and Karelia as well as bits of northern Russia like Novgorod.
Did we discuss where France was going to try to colonize in the new world? I forget, could we see something like in English Canada/French Carolina?
I've decided on the North American east coast having the Scandinavians in the north, the Dutch in the middle and the English in the south. France is going to have to look somewhere else. The French will have colonies, though. Aside from parts of the Caribbean, I have a few options that I'm considering for France:
- Gulf Coast
- Northern Brazil/Amazon
- Southern Cone
- South Africa
I think the religious situation in Poland will depend on which dynasty comes to power. If it's the Habsburgs, they'll definitely stay Catholic. That's probably the case with the Valois as well. A native dynasty could go either way and would likely be a big point of contention, while an Oldenburg Poland would more likely than not go Protestant.
French South Africa would be amazing to see. France OTL was to invested with European politics and wasted the potential of colonizing the New World. Might we see a French conquered India, possibly greater European involvement in Asia?
You could marry Catherine Jagellion to an Oldenburg who's not in direct line for succession in the Kalmar Union, maybe one of otl Frederick I's sons - John of Schleswig-Holstein-Haderslev (1521-1580) was unmarried and childless otl so there's minimal dynastic butterflies there. Since John of Sweden and Catherine married otl because Sigismund wanted to build a Swedish-Polish alliance against Russia this could serve a similar cause, building an anti-russian Nordic-Polish alliance. That could lead to a seperate branch of the Oldenburgs ruling the PLC and one ruling the Kalmar Union, with relative little chance of either side inheriting the other.
Me like this idea. Together they gang up on Russia.
PLC takes all of Ukraine and keeps Belarus, Kalmar takes Karelia, Kola, Finland, as well as expanding inward from St Petersburg/Livonia/Estonia
Truly the blessed timeline where Russia gets fucked.
Tbf PLC and the Kalmar Union will have some tensions for the Baltics but anything south of Lithuania being PLC land would work.
I could see Muscovy being fucked by the Kalmar Union (ittl United Kingdom lol) and the PLC and a bunch of client states like Novgorod and Tver.
I could see PLC colonisation of Siberia would be first establishing a bunch of client states then moving in and establish control eventually.
Also with the monarchy becoming more powerful ittl I do think a lot less ppl would be enserfed in ittl considering I do think the monarchy will leverage the church and common man against the nobles with something like a loss against the Russia being the excuse used to give some power back to the gentry and increase gentry representation.
honestly I think this timeline is the doom of Russia. PLC marched into Moscow once OTL, ITTL it sounds like Kalmar is gonna like seize Novgorod and Arkanghelsk eventually while PLC goes zerg over Ukraine and the south.
I'd think as the Kalmar Union focuses on the colonisation of America I think the PLC would actually take control of those areas and have Kalmar buisness interests there so both sides win.
IMO Arkangelhsk and Novgorod are too far north for the Kalmar to ever tolerate PLC rule of them.
True. Novgorod is too close to Livonia to not be Kalmar land and Arkangelsk is hard for the PLC to get to. I do think any more land would piss the PLC off tho which would push them to focus on the Americas. Maybe they sign a treaty marking the line of control between the two states.
I still do think the Kalmar Union would capitalise on the PLC not caring as much about the fur trade and becoming the middle man of the northern fur trade in eastern Europe and eventually North America though.
I think that Russia could collapse into several successor states that come under the influence of either the Kalmar Union or the PLC.
A lot of the talk with Poland right now is reminding me of this Whatifalthist video:
A poll regarding the relationship between the Kalmar Union and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth:
strawpoll.com
What should the relationship between the Kalmar Union and the PLC be? - Online Poll - StrawPoll
What's your opinion? Vote now: Friends, Complicated, Enemies...
strawpoll.com
Voted for Enemies, I want to see an ATL Great Northern War with a united Scandinavia kicking everyone's ass. If not Enemies, then I'll settle for Complicated.
What was the relationship between the Swedes/Danes/Norwegians and the Polish Commonwealth IOTL? Collectively it would probably be at least somewhat similar here.
I agree yeag
That’s what I was thinking to but it’s not unlikely those successor states are absorbed eventually.
Complicated. Sometimes friends and allies and sometimes the worst of enemies. There were several missed chances to become proper allies against Russia though.
May or may not happen as Poland lacks the Russian drive to conquer the Steppes to prevent another Golden Horde.