To the Victor, Go the Spoils (Redux): A Plausible Central Powers Victory

[Kylia]

Maybe Germany should try beating Britain then

I'm not really sure what this is supposed to be for?

It's not about Britain having not lost the war, its about Britain's superiority complex leading to them believing they can place rules like 'this country cannot have free movement of their own naval vessels within their own territory' and then being able to back them up. Not every country would be quite that fucking entitled to the idea that they get to Own The Sea.

No one made Britain the European Policeman, but they seem to be pretty certain that's their gig too.

 

[Crazyduck156]

I'm not really sure what this is supposed to be for?

It's not about Britain having not lost the war, its about Britain's superiority complex leading to them believing they can place rules like 'this country cannot have free movement of their own naval vessels within their own territory' and then being able to back them up. Not every country would be quite that fucking entitled to the idea that they get to Own The Sea.

No one made Britain the European Policeman, but they seem to be pretty certain that's their gig too.

But this isn't Britain "believing" they can do it. They can do it and have, because a) they do rule the waves in 1918 and the only competition is an British ally (or co-belligerent) and b) Germany cannot survive under blockade for much longer.
It's Germany who believes they have the right to do what they want despite barely winning (and even then not beating the Brits or the Americans).
This is just the reality of Germany's situation: they didn't beat the UK so they have to get rid of the sub threat or starve and collapse. If they dont like that they can restart the fighting and try another sortie of the HSF to break the blockade...

 

[Disraeli's Ghost]

its about Britain's superiority complex leading to them believing they can place rules like 'this country cannot have free movement of their own naval vessels within their own territory'

Yes how mean of Britain, poor Germany. I am sure the Reich would never develop their own 'superiority complex' and 'place rules' on other sovereign countries *looks into camera*

No one made Britain the European Policeman, but they seem to be pretty certain that's their gig too.

Erm.... No? The whole point of the Balance of Power doctrine was so Britain did not have to play European policeman. Hell Britain was so reluctant to play that game it abided by Castlereagh's pragmatic doctrine of non-intervention in nations' internal affairs for a century. Palmerston may have lectured Metternich on the advantages of constitutional government - he never tried to impose them though.

That was the trend in the British Raj as well, and even in case they "just" get autonomy, the situation is just going to spirale out of control pretty soob

Well it didn't after the Montagu reforms or the 1935 Government of India act. So I'm not sure why it would here.

 

[TheReformer]

I'd say there is a degree of arrogance in the British demand that Germany not deploy naval forces to Africa, though this arrogance is actually a quite understandable and militarily sensible policy.

It's the kind of policy where in practice it would likely have minimal impact in wartime but in peace time constrains Germany's ability to develop submarine basing facilities overseas without triggering a diplomatic incident which would justify British military action.

I suspect in Germany it would be seen as Anglo arrogance, but even German leadership would sympathise to Britain's demand - even if they disliked it. After all, they only dislike it on account of their own desire to put pressure on Britain through those deployments, so it is logical that they would concede in that area to secure peace, given global submarine warfare can still be used later on.

Essentially the ill informed nationalist might go "bloody Anglos" but most well informed military and diplomatic strategists would be more like "fair enough". As for the rest of the world, I doubt they'd care much.

 

[Belka DNW]

but even German leadership would sympathise to Britain's demand - even if they disliked it.

You mentioned in the chapter that the deployment limitations are considered a dead letter by the german military, doesn't this mean they'll snatch the first oportunity they see to begin development of the naval infrastructure in the colonies?

 

[TheReformer]

You menyioned in the chapter that the deployment limitations are considered a dead letter by the german military, doesn't this mean they'll snatch the first oportunity they see to begin development of the naval infrastructure in the colonies?

Guess we'll see!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

I'm not really sure what this is supposed to be for?

It's not about Britain having not lost the war, its about Britain's superiority complex leading to them believing they can place rules like 'this country cannot have free movement of their own naval vessels within their own territory' and then being able to back them up. Not every country would be quite that fucking entitled to the idea that they get to Own The Sea.

No one made Britain the European Policeman, but they seem to be pretty certain that's their gig too.

Ah but that is merely the prerogative of empire. Any empire. From the Pax Romana dictating what sovereign nations could do inside their borders, Spain's prerogative to divide the world with Portugal in spheres of influence, the Ming's ability to unseat rulers and decree morality, to the British prerogative to control the seas which extends to the American empire of today. All empires have an vested interest in telling non empires precisely what they can and cannot do on the world stage.

Empire is kinda bad like that.

 

[KingSweden24]

The mind boggles sometimes with this timeline that I can get 75 likes on a post in less than 24 hours. Cheers all, glad you enjoyed!

It deserves every like it earns

 

[halfcoop]

Is it though? Seems like a similar end result to me.

Thousands dead, then back to status quo (for America). In fact WW1 would be far less of an American defeat than 1812 as the Americans didn't start WW1 as the agressors then have their capitol burnt

We got our objectives from 1812, impressment of our seamen being the most important. But also clear up British claims to western territory around the Great Lakes and Louisiana, Great Britain arming Native American tribes out west, and GB attacking American ships thinking they might be holding British prisoners. 1812 settled all of these questions


Canada annexation was a goal, but it was far from the most important or only goal.

 

[Tom_B]

A few thoughts about the situation in postwar America.

Rather quickly voices will start arguing --with some justification--that the Entente would've won the war if America had entered sooner. The culprits in this analysis will be labeled "the foot draggers"

There is going to be a popular paranoia about Germany trying to get back at the United States. A plethora of cheap novels and a few films centered on German plots. I can see Kurt Jahnke with his harebrained schemes being inflated into a full fledged Bond Villain.

On the cultural level I see the proGerman Mencken having less of an influence during the Twenties than OTL

What happens in Ireland is going to have a very significant impact on the US.

 

[1962strat]

I hope this TL explore how South America is affected by all of this, iirc Brazil had some Germanophile figures that were cast aside because of the "perigo alemão". Maybe German victory in ww1 can prevent their downfall? Also keep in mind that I'm only talking about Brazil, so I can't even begin to imagine the alternative politicians that might arise in countries that were more influenced by Germans, like Argentina and Chile.

Can't speak much for the other countries, but in Argentina's case, it was fundamentally fucked over by to events in this period: the decline of the British as the main financial power and the Great Depression.

Before WW1 Britain had been Argentina's main Great Power influence, so much that the latter had been nicknamed by some "The Sixth Dominion". It owned a big portion of the railways in the country, was it's main creditor, and Argentina's economy consisted mostly of exports to the British Empire.

Britain lost the capacity to be the financial power it had been before the war during WW1, and suddenly the capital coming to Argentina had dried up. The US didn't care to develop what at the time was its main competitor in the region, so the growth Argentina had been experiencing fell in the 20s.

Enter Germany ITTL: if they were to even attempt to fill the gap the British left OTL, you might have either Britain making more of an effort to keep their influence or USA rushing in to prevent the Germany from getting a foothold in South America. Capitalism at its finest, competition would significantly improve the situation for Argentina, no matter the result.

As for the Great Depression, Argentina wasn't affected directly as much as other countries. However, when the British closed off their empire and turned to protectionism, Argentina was fucked. Most of the world had also turned to protectionism, so there was nowhere to redirect its export based economy. In the end, some very unfavorable treaties had to be signed with the British to gain access to the markets of the Empire.

ITTL, there might well not be a Great Depression, or at least it might not be as global as OTL, maybe removing this issue as well.

All these economic issues were mainly what fucked Argentina and led it to the so-called infamous decade in the 30s which would eventually result in 50 years of instability with revolutions, coups and countercoups.

 

[Augenis]

So tired of Britain being able to get away with this crap. :grumps:

Excellently written chapter,

Don't worry, Admiral Tirpitz will soon order the construction of SMS Wilhelm's Nostril which will wipe all British battleships off the face of the Earth and convince the Kaiser's dumb cousin in London to change his name back to Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or at least I have been told as much 🇩🇪

 

[Claudius]

If the German government is smart, it needs to start a "peace offensive " in the US. Possibly this would include a formal apology for the idiotic Zimmermann Telegram episode, with a pledge to deal directly with the American government on issues of mutual concern. There was a large self -identified German population in many of the larger US cities, and given the relatively short time that actual fighting took place between the two nations, a raproachment should be doable.

Perhaps a state visit in 1920 or 1921 of the Crown Prince, offering trade concessions would secure the interest of some of the industrialist class. I could see such an effort bearing some serious diplomatic fruit in the post-war period. If the Brits are playing hardball with their navy and entering a new naval arms race is impractical, then the Reich could definitely use at least a somewhat friendly USA going forward. Just picture the Imperial yacht anchored off Newport in the summer season, the Prince's family dancing the night away with the sons and daughters of Vanderbilts, Aldriches, and Rockefellers....

 

[Augenis]

Perhaps a state visit in 1920 or 1921 of the Crown Prince, offering trade concessions would secure the interest of some of the industrialist class. I could see such an effort bearing some serious diplomatic fruit in the post-war period. If the Brits are playing hardball with their navy and entering a new naval arms race is impractical, then the Reich could definitely use at least a somewhat friendly USA going forward. Just picture the Imperial yacht anchored off Newport in the summer season, the Prince's family dancing the night away with the sons and daughters of Vanderbilts, Aldriches, and Rockefellers....

Knowing what the Crown Prince was like, I'd rather not send him anywhere, unless you're seeking to botch the negotiations :/

 

[Kylia]

Don't worry, Admiral Tirpitz will soon order the construction of SMS Wilhelm's Nostril which will wipe all British battleships off the face of the Earth and convince the Kaiser's dumb cousin in London to change his name back to Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or at least I have been told as much 🇩🇪

I just love that I'm not allowed to make any pro-German or Anti-British comments without people responding like this. Yay.

 

[Augenis]

I just love that I'm not allowed to make any pro-German or Anti-British comments without people responding like this. Yay.

You can be certain that I don't have a dog in the German-British fight aside from making fun of German militarists. (It was also supposed to be a Star Wars reference but that fell flat I guess)

 

[Kylia]

You can be certain that I don't have a dog in the German-British fight aside from making fun of German militarists. (It was also supposed to be a Star Wars reference but that fell flat I guess)

But you don't make fun of British militarists?

 

[Augenis]

But you don't make fun of British militarists?

Well yes because I am a proud British patriot 🇬🇧

No, it's because thanks to my choice in lifestyle (career? that sounds too professional) I've had to read a lot more into Imperial Germany than the UK, so I know a lot more about their shenanigans.

 

[Kaiser Chris]

Don't worry, Admiral Tirpitz will soon order the construction of SMS Wilhelm's Nostril which will wipe all British battleships off the face of the Earth and convince the Kaiser's dumb cousin in London to change his name back to Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or at least I have been told as much 🇩🇪

Nostril of Palpatine!

 

[TheCuriousSaint]

Great chapter, this is really interesting!