How to avoid the French Revolution?

[galik]

A lot of factors culminated in the French Revolution, how to change these?

A wealthy Spain sharing the expenses with France to support the American Revolution?

A more decisive Louis XVI pushing for reforms (how to achieve this?) appeasing the 3rd estate?

A stronger presence of France in Asia, Africa and America that would have developed an influential merchantile class (stronger 3rd estate)?

Any more ideias?

 

[marktaha]

If It Had Happened Otherwise - story If Louis XVI had had an Atom of Firmness He backs Turgot, keeps out of the American Revolution, and lives until 1820.

 

[Deleted member 180541]

The reason why Louis XVI couldn’t make any reforms was because he was constantly blocked by the Parlements. If you simply avoid the restoration of the Parlements following the death of Louis XV the revolution will not occur.

 

[AltoRegnant]

The reason why Louis XVI couldn’t make any reforms was because he was constantly blocked by the Parlements. If you simply avoid the restoration of the Parlements following the death of Louis XV the revolution will not occur.

there's a true irony in the fact that where parliament helped the people of England (as much as such a monarchy would or could) but in France it stopped the monarchy from actually being able to do anything. but yeah Louis XV was honestly the problem- he also struggled to coordinate the military during wars with Britain, causing massive issues in how they were conducted.

 

[holycookie]

it would be interesting a timeline following the idea that france remains a monarchy and the usa loses the war of independence with george washington and gang being hanged / killed in battle. this will change the American continent, with different nations being born in the new world. When ttl usa gains independence the country can be very different, not only it but several countries like mexico, brazil and many others. In Europe the HRE lasts longer, Prussia probably lights up, but without having the super reactionary vision after losing to Napoleonic France. Austria can make a confederation in Italy, France can expand more in Europe more slowly (also doesn't lose a good population in the Napoleonic wars).

Brazil, for example, instead of declaring independence, can fight with Portugal for control of the Portuguese empire. The war would not be a struggle for independence but a civil war for the command of the empire. Spain will fight against the countries in Spanish America. Prussia can light up sooner without napoleon destroying your nation, austria can have more influence with the HRE. Nationalism as we saw in otl may not occur. Etc

 

[anotherlurker]

Send Marie Antoinette back to Vienna. Sure, divorces among royals are ugly afairs, but even uglier was her unpopularity among everyone below the nobility, no matter how much connection to realit the reasons for her popularity have. No regime out there can ignore popularity, no matter how much they wish they could.

Get the middle class of people, those who have acquired wealth but remain on the outsise of political participation due to lacking noble blood, to become upholders of the system instead of keeping them outside and letting anger grow. Offer offices for accomplished locals, expand the bureaucray in colonies, it doesn't really matter if the work has a point, just that they get some recognition and prestige from it.

Going back a bit further, don't spend crazy amounts of money you don't have supporting a random uprising against the British in Northern America. Nothing will ever come of it and they surely will never repay in a comparable fashion.

Oh, and of course pay the army alwas in full and on time, just to be sure.

 

[VVD0D95]

Send Marie Antoinette back to Vienna. Sure, divorces among royals are ugly afairs, but even uglier was her unpopularity among everyone below the nobility, no matter how much connection to realit the reasons for her popularity have. No regime out there can ignore popularity, no matter how much they wish they could.

Get the middle class of people, those who have acquired wealth but remain on the outsise of political participation due to lacking noble blood, to become upholders of the system instead of keeping them outside and letting anger grow. Offer offices for accomplished locals, expand the bureaucray in colonies, it doesn't really matter if the work has a point, just that they get some recognition and prestige from it.

Going back a bit further, don't spend crazy amounts of money you don't have supporting a random uprising against the British in Northern America. Nothing will ever come of it and they surely will never repay in a comparable fashion.

Oh, and of course pay the army alwas in full and on time, just to be sure.

Sending Marie Antoinette back will piss of Austria and would be a dumb move.

 

[isabella]

A lot of factors culminated in the French Revolution, how to change these?

A wealthy Spain sharing the expenses with France to support the American Revolution?

A more decisive Louis XVI pushing for reforms (how to achieve this?) appeasing the 3rd estate?

A stronger presence of France in Asia, Africa and America that would have developed an influential merchantile class (stronger 3rd estate)?

Any more ideias?

Send Marie Antoinette back to Vienna. Sure, divorces among royals are ugly afairs, but even uglier was her unpopularity among everyone below the nobility, no matter how much connection to realit the reasons for her popularity have. No regime out there can ignore popularity, no matter how much they wish they could.

Get the middle class of people, those who have acquired wealth but remain on the outsise of political participation due to lacking noble blood, to become upholders of the system instead of keeping them outside and letting anger grow. Offer offices for accomplished locals, expand the bureaucray in colonies, it doesn't really matter if the work has a point, just that they get some recognition and prestige from it.

Going back a bit further, don't spend crazy amounts of money you don't have supporting a random uprising against the British in Northern America. Nothing will ever come of it and they surely will never repay in a comparable fashion.

Oh, and of course pay the army alwas in full and on time, just to be sure.

Louis XVI not restoring the Parliaments (something who he has done as soon he became King), not supporting the American revolution and NOT calling the States General would be a much better course of action. Basically he MUST be a more absolutist ruler than he was in OTL NOT a more liberal one.
The King must put the second state (aka nobility) more firmly under his control WITHOUT giving more power to the third, else France would collapse

 

[anotherlurker]

Sending Marie Antoinette back will piss of Austria and would be a dumb move.

Are the consequences of pissing off the Kaiser worse or better than losing your head? In fact a little victorious war could come in very handily for a regime in need of a bit more popularity.

 

[VVD0D95]

Are the consequences of pissing off the Kaiser worse or better than losing your head? In fact a little victorious war could come in very handily for a regime in need of a bit more popularity.

Marie Antoinette wasn’t the reason louos lost his head. Indeed she wasn’t even in the top five reasons for it

 

[isabella]

Are the consequences of pissing off the Kaiser worse or better than losing your head? In fact a little victorious war could come in very handily for a regime in need of a bit more popularity.

Sending Antoinette back in Vienna would be an USELESS folly. In that regard Louis would do MUCH BETTER to renounce to all his power, abdicate and declaring the end of the monarchy, self exiling himself and all his relatives (naturally without their riches)

 

[Disraeli's Ghost]

Are the consequences of pissing off the Kaiser worse or better than losing your head? In fact a little victorious war could come in very handily for a regime in need of a bit more popularity.

The question is how to avoid the French Revolution, not start it earlier lol.

Marie Antoinette wasn't the cause of the revolution. Her spending, Louis' lack of libido, and the Diamond necklace affair didn't help. But France's problems are far larger than having a spendthrift queen.

 

[octoberman]

it would be interesting a timeline following the idea that france remains a monarchy and the usa loses the war of independence with george washington and gang being hanged / killed in battle. this will change the American continent, with different nations being born in the new world. When ttl usa gains independence the country can be very different, not only it but several countries like mexico, brazil and many others. In Europe the HRE lasts longer, Prussia probably lights up, but without having the super reactionary vision after losing to Napoleonic France. Austria can make a confederation in Italy, France can expand more in Europe more slowly (also doesn't lose a good population in the Napoleonic wars).

Brazil, for example, instead of declaring independence, can fight with Portugal for control of the Portuguese empire. The war would not be a struggle for independence but a civil war for the command of the empire. Spain will fight against the countries in Spanish America. Prussia can light up sooner without napoleon destroying your nation, austria can have more influence with the HRE. Nationalism as we saw in otl may not occur. Etc

Going back a bit further, don't spend crazy amounts of money you don't have supporting a random uprising against the British in Northern America. Nothing will ever come of it and they surely will never repay in a comparable fashion.

then revolution would from debts from another war remember that the debts for seven years war and war of austrian succession were larger than that of American Revolution. France with it's bad was a powder keg of revolution waiting to ignite.
Only thing that can avoid French Revolution is repealing of tax exemption for aristocracy

 

[isabella]

then revolution would from debts from another war remember that the debts for seven years war and war of austrian succession were larger than that of American Revolution. France with it's bad was a powder keg of revolution waiting to ignite.
Only thing that can avoid French Revolution is repealing of tax exemption for aristocracy

Absolutely false. Get a King who has NOT Louis’ inability to act or his half-liberal tendencies and you will NOT get the French revolution.
What France absolutely do NOT need is a King who is pushed towards half-steps too liberals without the strength for backing them or to reprise revolts.
Because if Louis had sent the guards to force the dispersion of the so called National Assembly of the representatives of the third state OR ordered to shoot on the people who were attacking Versailles, as he NEEDED to do, the Revolution would die in his cradle

 

[octoberman]

Absolutely false. Get a King who has NOT Louis’ inability to act or his half-liberal tendencies and you will NOT get the French revolution.
What France absolutely do NOT need is a King who is pushed towards half-steps too liberals without the strength for backing them or to reprise revolts.
Because if Louis had sent the guards to force the dispersion of the so called National Assembly of the representatives of the third state OR ordered to shoot on the people who were attacking Versailles, as he NEEDED to do, the Revolution would die in his cradle

but guards could join the revolution. Many former officers of the Royal army joined the Revoltionary army

 

[isabella]

but guards could join the revolution. Many former officers of the Royal army joined the Revoltionary army

NOT the ones charged with the security of the King and most of them joined ONLY AFTER the Revoultion had taken its full course NOT BEFORE and remember who a lot of them choose exile over serving in the new French revolutionary army

 

[Europia]

Compromise with parliament, don't overextend in far flung lands, remove taxes on the poor and privileges for the wealthy and guilds

 

[McAuslan_in_the_Rough]

Was the financial situation of France in 1789 worse than it was at the height of the Fronde, or at the lowest point of the War of the Spanish Succession? I don't actually know but my guess is no. Mazarin made compromises with the nobility and Louis XIV had to give a banker a tour of Versailles, but both kept the monarchy going.

I think it's Louis XVI's response to the debt crisis is what results in the revolution: every half measure left the crown with less power and emboldened opposition.

"Oh, this republic! What havoc to so little purpose! To think that this revolution has come about from the deficit of a few millions!" - Victor Hugo, 93

 

[Disraeli's Ghost]

as the financial situation of France in 1789 worse than it was at the height of the Fronde, or at the lowest point of the War of the Spanish Succession?

You're right to question it. The financial situation was bad but IMO is overrated as cause (as is intervention in America to a large extent). Things could still have continued ticking without the sweeping Napoleonic-esque reforms people sometimes demand to avoid the revolution. This is a good article on it: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2122504

 

[unprincipled peter]

Another vote here for having a different XVI. It wasn't so much his ideas, but that he didn't have the personality to control implementation or consequences of them. Too wishy washy. No backbone.

If we're being fair, XIV, XV, and XVI, with the regency of de Orleans in there, too, were all leaders who kept France in a steady downward trend. Ultimately, the buck stops with XVI. He was dealt a shitty hand, and played it horribly.