A Better Rifle at Halloween
- Thread starter diesal
- Start date
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- britwank rifles ww1 different
So Sergeant your rifles failed and you got out of it yes?
Yes sir.
Very wise. Now tell me sergeant did you remember to disengage the magazine cut off?
Er.
Admiralty Red Tape
18th September 1914, Portsmouth.
Admiral Percy Scott was again dealing with a letter from the Admiralty, the author was politely explaining in the typical empty vacuous prose favoured by that kind of official that whilst the Ludgate Device was undoubtably an important innovation, it had not been purchased through the correct channels and the funding used was not approved. Therefore, the orders placed the Royal Navy for gunnery control, boiler design and Aeronautical investigation, were to be cancelled.
In addition, the writer assured Admiral Scott that no further correspondence on the subject would be entered into, until the Ludgate company had been approved as a vendor no further contracts or purchases would be approved by the Admiralty.
Admiral Scott was no stranger to the obstructions placed in front of the Royal Navy by the bureaucracy at the Admiralty, his own inventions, the electric firing circuit to ensure all of a ship’s guns fired together was rebuffed, his smoke hood design refused and the current criminal lack of interest in director gunnery control. But this new technological marvel could revolutionise so many aspects of the Navy, he remembered the letter from his son now a midshipman aboard HMS Black Prince an obsolete armoured cruiser and a death trap, his boy had sent him a letter in which he had drily stated that if his ship meet the Germans “they would be on the bottom before they even had a chance to shoot back. There is no gunnery director, the first lieutenant cares more for his blacking and gilt work than the accuracy of the ship’s guns and with only 15° of elevation they will scarcely loft a shell further than in Nelson’s day”
Admiral Percy Scott was again dealing with a letter from the Admiralty, the author was politely explaining in the typical empty vacuous prose favoured by that kind of official that whilst the Ludgate Device was undoubtably an important innovation, it had not been purchased through the correct channels and the funding used was not approved. Therefore, the orders placed the Royal Navy for gunnery control, boiler design and Aeronautical investigation, were to be cancelled.
In addition, the writer assured Admiral Scott that no further correspondence on the subject would be entered into, until the Ludgate company had been approved as a vendor no further contracts or purchases would be approved by the Admiralty.
Admiral Scott was no stranger to the obstructions placed in front of the Royal Navy by the bureaucracy at the Admiralty, his own inventions, the electric firing circuit to ensure all of a ship’s guns fired together was rebuffed, his smoke hood design refused and the current criminal lack of interest in director gunnery control. But this new technological marvel could revolutionise so many aspects of the Navy, he remembered the letter from his son now a midshipman aboard HMS Black Prince an obsolete armoured cruiser and a death trap, his boy had sent him a letter in which he had drily stated that if his ship meet the Germans “they would be on the bottom before they even had a chance to shoot back. There is no gunnery director, the first lieutenant cares more for his blacking and gilt work than the accuracy of the ship’s guns and with only 15° of elevation they will scarcely loft a shell further than in Nelson’s day”
You're right... I looked up ferries, and learned that B-types had been ferried to France. I looked up the B-type, and saw that it was much smaller than the British buses I'd seen there in 1987, and in 1930s movies. Had I read more closely, I would have learned that the B-type was the first mass-produced bus, and was the standard type till well into the 1920s - i.e. "full-size" in 1914.
Kudos to diesal for including this picturesque detail.
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I was actually inspired to write that bit based on a comment made by about British procurement failures and their long history
Hello,
Does that mean Admiral Scott comes up with a work-around for the Ludgate Device?
Yeah, when you read the histories, you wonder how the Brits won. Then you read about the Germans!
The winner of modern wars tends to be the side that makes the least number of mistakes during war time. Procurement is one where the greatest number of mistakes can be made. The British "muddled through", the Germans just muddled.Yeah, when you read the histories, you wonder how the Brits won. Then you read about the Germans!
Hit them with a double whammy. Scott was also one of the 'Fish Pond' a group of Officers who were close allies of Admiral Fisher. Whatever Whitehall or Admiralty mandarin who turned this down would get dragged over the coals by Churchill and then get both barrels from Fisher.
I was just thinking a Churchillian "Action this day" missive would be the medicine needed.
Action This Day
19th September 1914, London.
The First Lord of the Admiralty was meeting with the Permanent Secretary, Sir William Graham Greene, Admiral and First Sea Lord Prince Louis of Battenburg and Admiral Sir Percy Scott.
The four men were discussing the cancelation of the orders for the Ludgate Device by the deputy undersecretary to the Accountant General Sir Alfred Eyles. Sir Alfred had pointedly not been invited to this meeting as it was felt that his department was doing more to damage the fighting power of the Royal Navy than the entire German Fleet.
Sir Percy Scott spoke up saying “Sir the Admiralty is not fit for purpose, every development is slowed, delayed and cancelled, they will not approve a change even if it improves vital fighting power and saves the exchequer money. The entire lot of them need to be dismissed and a new organisation more suited to our crushing war time burden be put in their place The know nothing of war, shipbuilding or science and their methods of administration are more suited to the days of Queen Victoria, actually, they were no damned use then either. Every improvement in the conditions of our men or the fighting power of the service has had to be wrung out of them, kicking and screaming.”
Sir William Greene spoke up at this point “process and procedure are the bedrock on which the Civil Administration of the British Empire stands, without that we have that, we have chaos” “Process and procedure, have kept our battleships from having working gunnery directors, two battlecruisers lost and 2000 men dead are the price of your damned processes” was the splenetic reply from the Prince Louis, who had had his own fights with the Admiralty mandarins.
Winston Churchill held up a hand to placate the irate Admirals and calm the equally furious bureaucrat. “Sir William, what works in peace does not necessarily work in war, we must have speed and push now. Thornton Bank was a great victory but the destruction of our ships and the Zeppelin raid against Nieuwpoort are a portent of a dark future. The Royal Navy rules the waves but already many of our ships are obsolete death traps, our armoured cruisers need replacement, but the battlecruisers are too thin skinned to fight their own kind without suicidal risks. German Merchant raiders take our ships on the high seas with impunity and their U-Boats lurk in the deep to strike at our trade. We must rebuild the Navy to fight the Germans and who knows what threats our empire will face once the Hunnish Menace is destroyed.”
“Gentlemen, you will work together to improve how the admiralty works, we must find new ways to harness the wonders of modern science, likewise we must find new ways to plan, analyse and administer so that speed and effectiveness are our goals. I want weapons that work in the hands of our ships captains tomorrow, not endless reams of bumf and red tape that hinder them. If you cannot do that I will have your resignation tomorrow. And place the damned order for as many of the Ludgate Devices as the man can make, I think they will do wonders for our Nation and its Empire.”
The First Lord of the Admiralty was meeting with the Permanent Secretary, Sir William Graham Greene, Admiral and First Sea Lord Prince Louis of Battenburg and Admiral Sir Percy Scott.
The four men were discussing the cancelation of the orders for the Ludgate Device by the deputy undersecretary to the Accountant General Sir Alfred Eyles. Sir Alfred had pointedly not been invited to this meeting as it was felt that his department was doing more to damage the fighting power of the Royal Navy than the entire German Fleet.
Sir Percy Scott spoke up saying “Sir the Admiralty is not fit for purpose, every development is slowed, delayed and cancelled, they will not approve a change even if it improves vital fighting power and saves the exchequer money. The entire lot of them need to be dismissed and a new organisation more suited to our crushing war time burden be put in their place The know nothing of war, shipbuilding or science and their methods of administration are more suited to the days of Queen Victoria, actually, they were no damned use then either. Every improvement in the conditions of our men or the fighting power of the service has had to be wrung out of them, kicking and screaming.”
Sir William Greene spoke up at this point “process and procedure are the bedrock on which the Civil Administration of the British Empire stands, without that we have that, we have chaos” “Process and procedure, have kept our battleships from having working gunnery directors, two battlecruisers lost and 2000 men dead are the price of your damned processes” was the splenetic reply from the Prince Louis, who had had his own fights with the Admiralty mandarins.
Winston Churchill held up a hand to placate the irate Admirals and calm the equally furious bureaucrat. “Sir William, what works in peace does not necessarily work in war, we must have speed and push now. Thornton Bank was a great victory but the destruction of our ships and the Zeppelin raid against Nieuwpoort are a portent of a dark future. The Royal Navy rules the waves but already many of our ships are obsolete death traps, our armoured cruisers need replacement, but the battlecruisers are too thin skinned to fight their own kind without suicidal risks. German Merchant raiders take our ships on the high seas with impunity and their U-Boats lurk in the deep to strike at our trade. We must rebuild the Navy to fight the Germans and who knows what threats our empire will face once the Hunnish Menace is destroyed.”
“Gentlemen, you will work together to improve how the admiralty works, we must find new ways to harness the wonders of modern science, likewise we must find new ways to plan, analyse and administer so that speed and effectiveness are our goals. I want weapons that work in the hands of our ships captains tomorrow, not endless reams of bumf and red tape that hinder them. If you cannot do that I will have your resignation tomorrow. And place the damned order for as many of the Ludgate Devices as the man can make, I think they will do wonders for our Nation and its Empire.”
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The Moroccan Division prepares
19th September 1914, Leuze-en-Hainaut
It was a pretty town, before, but soon it was to be anything but. The arrival of the Moroccan Division in the south of the town had been followed several hours later by the arrival of a regiment and then a brigade of German infantry from IV Corps, the two companies of Landswehr guarding the town had held their ground initially delaying the approaching French by 20 minutes until a spirited charge with the Bayonet had routed them, most had surrendered with the rest fleeing in apparent disorder.
The town itself was held by one Brigade of the Moroccan Division, the other Brigade was split, one Regiment being used to secure the links back towards the Entente lines, whilst the other was being retained just outside the town as a local reserve. The engineering company attached to the division was being put to work destroying the railway lines and crucially preparing defensive positions for the inevitable German Counterattack.
The capture of the Railway station had gathered a useful prize and a challenge. Two trains had apparently collided in the marshalling yards, the confusion caused by the French advance, the capture of Ath and it would appear, worsened by spontaneous Belgian sabotage of signalling equipment, had resulted in the damage to both engines and the stranding of their cargo.
The first train was loaded with several hundred wounded German Soldiers and their doctors and nurses, the second carried both artillery pieces intended to reinforce the abandoned siege of Lille and the ammunition to supply them. Given France’s shortage of heavy guns the delivery of 8 7.7 cm guns and 8 15 cm guns was a welcome prize. The accident had evidently happened only shortly before the fall of the town as little had been done to deal with the wrecked engines or the now stranded guns and wounded. The divisional commander gave orders to secure the guns and ammunition and to ensure that the wounded were carefully removed from the train to a place of safety along with their doctors and nurses.
The German 16th Infantry Brigade, a part of 8th Infantry Division, was leading the reoriented IV Corps, as it prepared to go onto the attack to break the southern jaw of the trap. The Brigade had marched swiftly down the road from Tournai to Leuze-en-Hainaut, however it had been slowed by the disruptions caused by the British and French attacks, with artillery, logistics and even a mobile bathhouse unit delaying its advance. The first inkling that it had lost the race was the sight of several dozen landswehr fleeing in apparent terror towards the marching infantry, they were swiftly halted. The most senior man, an older feldwebel told the tale of the fall of Leuze-en-Hainaut. His men were put back into the line of march but being older and mostly unfit garrison troops, they soon were straggling as their younger comrades overtook them. Forwarned the Brigade shook out from column of march into a skirmishing line two kilometers from Leuze-en-Hainaut. They advanced in this line towards the town, using what limited cover as they awaited the French response.
The French division whilst nominally more powerful than the German Brigade was only slightly stronger within the town itself, its 75mm guns were delayed by the poor state of the Belgian roads, the 65mm mountain guns of the division had been broken down for transport and they were being prepared for action just as the German brigade came into view.
General de devision Humbert, was the commander of the Moroccan division, his next action was calculated to increase the challenge faced by the German commanders, he ordered on of his junior officers to take a white flag and with a small escort advance towards the Germans. Once he reached the German lines, he was to negotiate the removal of the wounded and the medical team from the town. Any delay to the German attack would greatly aid the Moroccan division as it would give time for further support to reach them be it from the 6th army still pushing hard against the German IV corps or the British to their east. There were scattered elements of the German VII corps between the Moroccan Division and the British but intelligence received by the General had indicated that the what remained of VII corps was withdrawing to the north of Ath.
General Humbert was going to hold Leuze-en-Hainaut come what may, the German brigade advancing towards the town remained halted outside of rifle shot, his envoy having been seen and evidently taken to see the German commander, who knew what would come of that meeting. But as the Germans delayed their attacks his men worked feverishly to prepare for the inevitable assault.
The land around Leuze-en-Hainaut was flat, there was little high ground to be used, the church and town hall both of brick would provide initial vantage points but would surely be targets for artillery as the fighting intensified.
General Humbert would wait for the storm to break, but his division would defy the onslaught and help to break the German army here in Belgium.
It was a pretty town, before, but soon it was to be anything but. The arrival of the Moroccan Division in the south of the town had been followed several hours later by the arrival of a regiment and then a brigade of German infantry from IV Corps, the two companies of Landswehr guarding the town had held their ground initially delaying the approaching French by 20 minutes until a spirited charge with the Bayonet had routed them, most had surrendered with the rest fleeing in apparent disorder.
The town itself was held by one Brigade of the Moroccan Division, the other Brigade was split, one Regiment being used to secure the links back towards the Entente lines, whilst the other was being retained just outside the town as a local reserve. The engineering company attached to the division was being put to work destroying the railway lines and crucially preparing defensive positions for the inevitable German Counterattack.
The capture of the Railway station had gathered a useful prize and a challenge. Two trains had apparently collided in the marshalling yards, the confusion caused by the French advance, the capture of Ath and it would appear, worsened by spontaneous Belgian sabotage of signalling equipment, had resulted in the damage to both engines and the stranding of their cargo.
The first train was loaded with several hundred wounded German Soldiers and their doctors and nurses, the second carried both artillery pieces intended to reinforce the abandoned siege of Lille and the ammunition to supply them. Given France’s shortage of heavy guns the delivery of 8 7.7 cm guns and 8 15 cm guns was a welcome prize. The accident had evidently happened only shortly before the fall of the town as little had been done to deal with the wrecked engines or the now stranded guns and wounded. The divisional commander gave orders to secure the guns and ammunition and to ensure that the wounded were carefully removed from the train to a place of safety along with their doctors and nurses.
The German 16th Infantry Brigade, a part of 8th Infantry Division, was leading the reoriented IV Corps, as it prepared to go onto the attack to break the southern jaw of the trap. The Brigade had marched swiftly down the road from Tournai to Leuze-en-Hainaut, however it had been slowed by the disruptions caused by the British and French attacks, with artillery, logistics and even a mobile bathhouse unit delaying its advance. The first inkling that it had lost the race was the sight of several dozen landswehr fleeing in apparent terror towards the marching infantry, they were swiftly halted. The most senior man, an older feldwebel told the tale of the fall of Leuze-en-Hainaut. His men were put back into the line of march but being older and mostly unfit garrison troops, they soon were straggling as their younger comrades overtook them. Forwarned the Brigade shook out from column of march into a skirmishing line two kilometers from Leuze-en-Hainaut. They advanced in this line towards the town, using what limited cover as they awaited the French response.
The French division whilst nominally more powerful than the German Brigade was only slightly stronger within the town itself, its 75mm guns were delayed by the poor state of the Belgian roads, the 65mm mountain guns of the division had been broken down for transport and they were being prepared for action just as the German brigade came into view.
General de devision Humbert, was the commander of the Moroccan division, his next action was calculated to increase the challenge faced by the German commanders, he ordered on of his junior officers to take a white flag and with a small escort advance towards the Germans. Once he reached the German lines, he was to negotiate the removal of the wounded and the medical team from the town. Any delay to the German attack would greatly aid the Moroccan division as it would give time for further support to reach them be it from the 6th army still pushing hard against the German IV corps or the British to their east. There were scattered elements of the German VII corps between the Moroccan Division and the British but intelligence received by the General had indicated that the what remained of VII corps was withdrawing to the north of Ath.
General Humbert was going to hold Leuze-en-Hainaut come what may, the German brigade advancing towards the town remained halted outside of rifle shot, his envoy having been seen and evidently taken to see the German commander, who knew what would come of that meeting. But as the Germans delayed their attacks his men worked feverishly to prepare for the inevitable assault.
The land around Leuze-en-Hainaut was flat, there was little high ground to be used, the church and town hall both of brick would provide initial vantage points but would surely be targets for artillery as the fighting intensified.
General Humbert would wait for the storm to break, but his division would defy the onslaught and help to break the German army here in Belgium.
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Can the Moroccans use the guns and ammunition right now? Even helter-skelter artillery fire would be of some help. May as well use up the shells so they won't be recaptured.
Not easily, they have artillery men with them but they have 65mm mountain guns so a bit different in scale. They might be able to but would have to unload the guns, also no tractors for them so moving them would be tough.
Not easily, they have artillery men with them but they have 65mm mountain guns so a bit different in scale. They might be able to but would have to unload the guns, also no tractors for them so moving them would be tough.