沒有國民黨就沒有中國, Without the Kuomintang there would be no China, A Republic of China Story
- Thread starter CELTICEMPIRE
- Start date
Considering the PKI at its height was the largest non-ruling communist party in the world before being massacred IOTL in 1965, the reference to the Soviets building ties to Indonesia makes me wonder how the PKI are doing ITTL.
East Turkestan, does that meant that the ROC doesn't rule the entirety of IRL modern day Xinjiang due to the Soviets never returning their puppet state from the 1934 invasion?
I suspect the PKI is doing well enough for Moscow to take notice and begin supporting them. Whether or not they succeed in overthrowing the government might depend on Nanking. IIRC, Indonesia is part of the OEAC after all. Also depends if Suharto stages his coup.
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I find it implausible that the USSR could hold part of China's recognized national territory in this way. There can't be Soviet troops in the ETR, or the 1968 filibuster would not even be attempted. China is a Great Power - a permanent Security Council member. China would instantly crush such a rebel government in its territory, unless the USSR explicitly guaranteed ETR's defense. That would be "a bridge too far".
China's hardly a great power at this time period. Also I think the Soviet's might have never withdrawn from this area and China was too weak to contest them so that's why they're staying.
Largest country by population, third largest by area; Permanent Member of the UN Security Council (the others are the US, USSR, UK, and France). Granted that China is fairly mushy, it's still stronger than any other nation. And it's way too big to be bullied the way Russia has done to Georgia and Ukraine.
Initially, perhaps, but China would be be backed by the US in getting the Soviets out, the same as Iran.
The OP's opinion is different, to be sure, but I can't see Sino-Soviet relations as anything but bitterly hostile as long as the USSR de facto occupies Chinese territory.
The 1934 puppet was Sheng Shicai. He was a Han Chinese and not an Uyg(h)ur, in fact pretty anti-Uyghur. East Turkestan was formed in 1944 iirc.
I will get to Indonesia pretty soon.
Yes, this is the Second East Turkestan Republic.
At the beginning of the TL I went back and forth on this. I decided that China would leave the issue alone because at the end of the Civil War, because it was in no position to fight the Soviet Union if it came to that. From the end of the Civil War in 1953 to 1966, the Soviets had plenty of nukes while China didn't have any.
China is considered a great power by most in the late 1960s. They aren't nearly at the same level as the US or USSR though.
they'd also have the backing of the world here too. The Soviets will not put East Turkestan above trying to at least keep China somewhat not a complete US ally.
China's current position is that East Turkestan must be returned to Chinese rule, but now is not the time to strike.
I've read a bit.
If I understand correctly, the Soviet puppet only controls the area north of and including the Tianshan mountain range, so a lot less than half of modern Xinjiang province.
So: the area north of the blue line?
Thing is, other maps show this area as "Dzungaria", and the area from Kashgar to the Taklamakan as "East Turkestan".
Yeah basically that area, the historical civil war era state just lasts longer.
I think it is because Xinjiang is basically two regions; one of the Uighurs and the other of former Dzungarians.
As Wikpedia puts it: "Although geographically, historically, and ethnically distinct from the Turkic-speaking Tarim Basin area, the Manchu-led Qing dynasty and subsequent Chinese governments integrated both areas into one province, Xinjiang. As the center of Xinjiang's heavy industry, generator of most of Xinjiang's GDP, as well as containing its political capital Ürümqi (Oirat for 'beautiful pasture'), Northern Xinjiang continues to attract intraprovincial and interprovincial migration to its cities. In comparison to southern Xinjiang (Nanjiang, or the Tarim Basin), Dzungaria is relatively well integrated with the rest of China by rail and trade links."
As Wikpedia puts it: "Although geographically, historically, and ethnically distinct from the Turkic-speaking Tarim Basin area, the Manchu-led Qing dynasty and subsequent Chinese governments integrated both areas into one province, Xinjiang. As the center of Xinjiang's heavy industry, generator of most of Xinjiang's GDP, as well as containing its political capital Ürümqi (Oirat for 'beautiful pasture'), Northern Xinjiang continues to attract intraprovincial and interprovincial migration to its cities. In comparison to southern Xinjiang (Nanjiang, or the Tarim Basin), Dzungaria is relatively well integrated with the rest of China by rail and trade links."
Most of that area.
That's accurate.
Yes. The part that made up the East Turkestan Republic was heavily Kazakh as well.