TL-191: After the End

Although he was born in 1890 and misses the 1922 date by over 30 years ? Is that 1922 date not always definitive? Since Elizabeth and Margaret were born in 1926 and 1930 and still exist it would seem not to so Im just wondering what are the factors involved ?

Unless someone is specifically mentioned as existing in the series, I tend towards the butterfly effect.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
I don’t know if Mount Rushmore, or an equivalent monument, exists in the US in TTL.
If it did Id guess at least 3 different faces. TR remains obviously but no Lincoln and probably no Southerners need apply. Perhaps Mahan, Sinclair and Smith ? 2 Democrats and 2 Socialists all fighting and in the case of Smith dying to make the US stronger ?
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
I’m not sure what making “puppets” out of the former CSA would entail, but if it’s referring to the USA granting political independence to former Confederate states after a military occupation, that seems like it would be far more lenient to the local population on the part of the US than annexation and reunion.em to be Confederates
Right it could be seen that way but what it does is not allow them to be Confederates and more importantly they are not allowed to be Americans,They can all themselves whatever else they want but the USA tells them what to do about just about everything other than how to hang the tp-over or under thats up to them. So no not very lenient in reality if it is in name.
I also don’t think that the US would carry out such a policy after the end of the Second Great War because the US government would not want to run the risk of another anti-US revanchist regime coming to power in the region.
That wouldnt happen if it was handled right but I can see the concern.
Again, the USA pursuing reunion is not “rewarding” the residents of the Midsouth. It does represent the USA ending an existential threat to its national security and permanently reversing the shameful loss in the War of Secession. It also represents the determination of the USA to present anything as monstrous as the Freedom Party’s dictatorship from ever coming to power in the region again.
Right but there is more than one way to do that.This of course is your timeline so its your choice and I completely respect that even though I strongly disagree with it, That said I spent half of this reply asking about blacks in the Northern US in 1944 which likely numbered 1 million or more ittl. What happened to them ? Did they remain or go to Haiti with the black CSA Destruction survivors ? And if they did why on Earth did they ?
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Unless someone is specifically mentioned as existing in the series, I tend towards the butterfly effect.
I can see that .I was just thinking ittl in the USA at least a truncated War of Secession means thousands who died OTL lived while the Second Mexican War and Great War means thousands who lived OTL died.Colonel Sanders like Dwight Eisenhower was born in 1890 and both seem to be in that sweet spot where they or someone very much like them could be born.
 
Given the role Custer has in the FGW, becoming a national hero for discovering how to use barrels to break through the Confederate lines and the roll that two officers who served under him (Morrell and Dowling) have in shaping the course of the SGW, do historians of the post war era draw any sort of connection between Custer's influence on the officers and their roles in the SGW?

While listening to "The Grapple" and hearing the story go back and forth between the two characters, I couldn't help but think of a future historian writing a thesis on Custer winning the FGW and his perceived protege's winning the second.
 
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Given the role Custer has in the FGW, becoming a national hero for discovering how to use barrels to break through the Confederate lines and the roll that two officers who served under him (Morrell and Dowling) have in shaping the course of the SGW, do historians of the post war era draw any sort of connection between Custer's influence on the officers and their roles in the SGW?

While listening to "The Grapple" and hearing the story go back and forth between the two characters, I couldn't help but think of a future historian writing a thesis on Custer winning the FGW and his perceived protege's winning the second.

Yes, there have been several postwar military historians who have highlighted Custer’s influence on Morrell and Dowling, by 2022. This was also a theme in the last two movies of the Custer film trilogy in TTL.
 
Something now on music: even though rock and roll, as well as blues, don't exist in this timeline, does the electric guitar eventually become a prominent instrument in TTL's music genres/scenes? If so, what are some notable brands on that market? Could probably see brands like Gibson, Gretsch, and Epiphone come into play? Fender and Rickenbacker probably don't exist. It still seems that evolution in the instrument is likely.
 
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Would there be Cities, Street and towns that be Names of Famous individuals in TL-191 like Morrel, Dowling and Roosevelt in Your TL?
That's a lot of States and Cities and even Lakes that was named after Famous individuals like George Washington and Lincoln etc in OTL.

Would there be Many Cities, Streets, Military bases and towns name by Certain TL191 Characters?
 
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Would there be Cities, Street and towns that be Names of Famous individuals in TL-191 like Morrel, Dowling and Roosevelt in Your TL?
That's a lot of States and Cities and even Lakes that was named after Famous individuals like George Washington and Lincoln etc in OTL.

Would there be Many Cities, Streets, Military bases and towns name by Certain TL191 Characters?

Yes, there are street names and US military facilities named for TL-191 characters throughout the country by 2022. Fort McSweeney, Oregon, is a town named after Gordon McSweeney, and is home mostly to US military veterans and the soldiers of a large base.
 
@David bar Elias, would you say Hong Kong has way less British influence than OTL due to around 50 years less of British rule? Which cities in the world by 2022 are the most cosmopolitan or have the most international influence and presence?

Hong Kong had far less British influence in TTL, between over two decades of Japanese rule and the restoration of Chinese control at the end of the Fourth Pacific War.

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By 2022, there are several cities that could be described as global cities. These include New York City, Chicago, and Los Angeles in the USA; Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo in the Empire of Brazil; Shanghai, Shenzhen, Nanjing, and Beijing in China; Mumbai and Delhi in Bharat, Berlin, Munich, and Hamburg in the German Empire; Vienna, Budapest, Prague, and Krakow in the Austro-Hungarian Empire; Moscow and Petrograd in the Russian Republic; Kinshasa-Ncuna in the Congolese Federation; Rome in the Italian Empire; Bogota, in Colombia; Mexico City, in Mexico; London, in the United Kingdom; Paris, in France; Warsaw, in Poland; Tehran, in Persia; Seoul, in Korea; Saigon, in Vietnam.
 
@David bar Elias, has the world suffered any major terriorist attacks or similar attacks from non-state actors in your timeline excluding the Mormons? Is there public interest in animals like dinosaurs or movies similar to Jurassic Park? You previously mentioned that both Baraht and China ended up testing superbombs, was there an increase in global panic over the possibility of nuclear war due to tensions between both nations?
 
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Something now on music: even though rock and roll, as well as blues, don't exist in this timeline, does the electric guitar eventually become a prominent instrument in TTL's music genres/scenes? If so, what are some notable brands on that market? Could probably see brands like Gibson, Gretsch, and Epiphone come into play. Fender and Rickenbacker probably don't exist. It still seems that evolution in the instrument is likely.

Yes, the electric guitar eventually gains prominence in different musical genres. In TTL, different countries and regions tend to coalesce around particular brands of instruments. The USA is one of the countries by 2022 with its own famous brands of guitars.
 
Yes, there are street names and US military facilities named for TL-191 characters throughout the country by 2022. Fort McSweeney, Oregon, is a town named after Gordon McSweeney, and is home mostly to US military veterans and the soldiers of a large base.
Alrighty then, can you Expand that question?
Like are there many kids named Morrel or Irving in the Postwar Era and onward, would their Many veteran and citizens will named their Kids and Grandkids by People like Morrel, Dowling, Custer and MacArthur for what they did in SGW.

Their are Famous Generals of both FGW and SGW action and Defending the Union, they fully Reckon the South the Both Wars.
They highly recommend for their children PostWar especially Named: Morrel and Irving.

So I expect that If you go to Modern day TL191 After End, Many peoples names as Dowling, Custer and Especially in the Most popularly and 1# German American names as Morrell(1).

Would also Streets, Military bases, School and Tank's will be Name for any other TL-191 Characters like Irving Streets, Flora Schools and Cassius Memorial fund.

There also Two other Questions also I want answers, Mr. David bar Elias, but if not answered them. I will okay with that.


First Question, are There a Morrell myth or at least a Patton myth? In the OTL there Myth that he was Genius General, Apolitical and Committed no War Crimes , but in Reality he was associated with the Nazis Ideologies and the Afrika Korps did committed Numerous War crime’s against the locals Arabs and barbers.
Especially with the Persecution of the Jews During the North African Campaign.

Do you think that there was a Similar Myth around Irving Morrell of him being Apolitical General that treated the South with kindness and good while In Reality he was Right wing General and treated the South like any Generals of the Union Army during the SGW.

But if it’s not maybe there be an Patton Myth of being Apolitical General who nothing to Freedom Party and none of there Racist Ideologies in during SGW and Treated Union POWs well with Patton never committed War Crime in the Ohio Campaign.

Was there an Myth like that in the your TL or No?



What are Jews of Germany doing and are like in Your TL? They’re were partially Patriotic and what considered the Best the Most Integrated Jews in all Europe.

So what they doing and treated During the SGW against the Antisemitic French and Russian forces and onward in the German Empire to Modern days.

Also the European Jewish community in TL191 as well?
 
Alrighty then, can you Expand that question?
Like are there many kids named Morrel or Irving in the Postwar Era and onward, would their Many veteran and citizens will named their Kids and Grandkids by People like Morrel, Dowling, Custer and MacArthur for what they did in SGW.

Their are Famous Generals of both FGW and SGW action and Defending the Union, they fully Reckon the South the Both Wars.
They highly recommend for their children PostWar especially Named: Morrel and Irving.

So I expect that If you go to Modern day TL191 After End, Many peoples names as Dowling, Custer and Especially in the Most popularly and 1# German American names as Morrell(1).

Would also Streets, Military bases, School and Tank's will be Name for any other TL-191 Characters like Irving Streets, Flora Schools and Cassius Memorial fund.

There also Two other Questions also I want answers, Mr. David bar Elias, but if not answered them. I will okay with that.


First Question, are There a Morrell myth or at least a Patton myth? In the OTL there Myth that he was Genius General, Apolitical and Committed no War Crimes , but in Reality he was associated with the Nazis Ideologies and the Afrika Korps did committed Numerous War crime’s against the locals Arabs and barbers.
Especially with the Persecution of the Jews During the North African Campaign.

Do you think that there was a Similar Myth around Irving Morrell of him being Apolitical General that treated the South with kindness and good while In Reality he was Right wing General and treated the South like any Generals of the Union Army during the SGW.

But if it’s not maybe there be an Patton Myth of being Apolitical General who nothing to Freedom Party and none of there Racist Ideologies in during SGW and Treated Union POWs well with Patton never committed War Crime in the Ohio Campaign.

Was there an Myth like that in the your TL or No?



What are Jews of Germany doing and are like in Your TL? They’re were partially Patriotic and what considered the Best the Most Integrated Jews in all Europe.

So what they doing and treated During the SGW against the Antisemitic French and Russian forces and onward in the German Empire to Modern days.

Also the European Jewish community in TL191 as well?

By 2022, some parents do give their male children names such as Armstrong or Irving, though they aren’t the most popular male names in the USA. No one gives male children first names such as Dowling or Custer or Morrell or MacArthur.

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Yes, there are numerous streets in different US cities named for Irving Morrell, Flora Blackford, and Cassius Madison.

By 2022, the main line of US barrels is named for Irving Morrell, most recently the Morrell Mark VI Barrel, which entered service in the late 2010s. The main training facility for armored warfare in the US is also named for Morrell: the Irving Morrell College of Armored Warfare, in Topeka, Kansas.

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Those kinds of myths didn’t really emerge around Morrell or Patton in TTL. Patton was instrumental in Operation Blackbeard, after all.

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By 2022, the Jewish population of the German Empire is at just over 800,000 people.

Within Europe, the largest Jewish communities are located in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Kingdom of Poland, the Kingdom of Belarus, the Netherlands, the Kingdom of Bulgaria, the Kingdom of Lithuania, the Grand Duchy of Latvia, and the Italian Empire.

Languages such as Yiddish and Ladino are still spoken in different countries, although they’re not as widely spoken among Jews as they once were.

The Commonwealth of Zion is a Jewish state that emerged out of the Ottoman Dissolution, and will one day join the European Community. The Commonwealth of Zion, as with the State of Israel in our world, attracts Jewish immigrants from around the world.

By 2022, there are no Jews living in either France or the Russian Republic
 
With the terminology being different ITTL, what's the wholesale extermination of Jews and other ethnic/national peoples by the Russian Tsarists and their collaborators during GW2 referred to as? Would it still be 'Holocaust'? I've seen Marlowski suggest "Judentodt" in the Photos thread for that.

Edit: It was actually Nathan Bernacki who did, now that I checked again.
 
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2162 was a reference to an epilogue to this ATL that’s come up for discussion several times in this thread.

The Ecological Union was a case of gradual ideological radicalization on the part of the new regime. There was already an anti-technology and anti-industrial aspect to the way that Ecoist political thought developed in Japan during the Syndicalist years. By the mid-21st Century, this anti-technology, anti-industrial, and anti-modern worldview was in place throughout the Ecological Union’s government and educational system.

By 2162, almost no one in the Ecological Union receives education beyond the equivalent to a US high school education. Certain subjects, such as astronomy, physics, foreign languages, and higher mathematics, are not taught at all. Most of the population is locked down in farm work, both in the countryside and in the vertical farms of the major cities. The cities of the Ecological Union have been shrinking for decades by 2162, due to a lack of proper maintenance. The Ecological Union also outlawed vaccines.
Reading this again, this has to be the most bizarre case of alter-globalization you could probably think of.
 
@David bar Elias, has the world suffered any major terriorist attacks or similar attacks from non-state actors in your timeline excluding the Mormons? Is there public interest in animals like dinosaurs or movies similar to Jurassic Park? You previously mentioned that both Baraht and China ended up testing superbombs, was there an increase in global panic over the possibility of nuclear war due to tensions between both nations?

By 2022, there haven’t been any terrorist attacks around the world approaching the devastation of 9/11 in our world. Terrorism in general did not approach the same scale worldwide after the end of the Second Great War as in our world after World War II. For example, there wasn’t a significant wave of terrorism in TTL involving attempts to hijack commercial aircraft.

There are Salafi groups active across the Middle East, in what was North Africa, in the territory of what was once Pakistan, and increasingly in the Sahel. However, these various groups do not have a global reach, and conversely do not enjoy state backing from any countries. These are very localized groups.

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Yes, there is widespread interest in different countries in the dinosaurs. By 2022, there hasn’t been a real equivalent to Jurassic Park published in the USA. The idea of bringing back extinct animals is popular among some Ecological activists, especially in the Russian Republic, where there’s a subgenre of utopian science fiction, which has as its premise the idea that bringing back extinct prehistoric animals ushers in a universally benevolent and prosperous human society: imagine the Dinotopia series from our world, with the addition of advanced cloning and genetic engineering.

Paleontology also enjoys state support in many countries, including in all of the great powers. Along with the scientific aspect of this support, discovering the most “impressive” fossils is considered a mark of prestige in most countries.

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Yes, there was an increase in concern around the world following the Bharati and Chinese superbomb tests, as well as the Russian superbomb test that followed the Bharati and Chinese ones.
 
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