The Stomach of Man Under Socialism: A Culinary History of Socialist America
- Thread starter JesterBL
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The anecdote about the avocado is OTL and predates the Hass cultivar- Ranhofer was a popularizer of avocado on the menus of Delmonico although he did not actually end up including them in The Epicurean. They were probably Florida avocados, which are generally hybrids between the West Indian and the Mexican.
Brits being more familiar with the avocado than IOTL is in part a result of their having closer ties to their former colonies in the Caribbean and doesn't hugely rely on the improvement of the avocado (although there could very well be improvements made as a result).
That's why they added the sauce, I expect. It would be unbearable without it but a good sauce can save a lot of dishes.
Housing built in America from the 1920s through the early 1970s by and large do not include full kitchens, so a lot of American meals are taken outside of the home and a lot of what is prepared in the home is just reheated from preparation in an industrial facility (which is true IOTL for completely different reasons). More detail on the different modes of in-person dining (and on kitchenless homes and apartments) will be covered in The Lonely Crowd.
No, although the Mexican government is not overtly anti-socialist*. Mexican socialists tend to suffer under a perception that they are American puppets and were also splintered by the 'rule or ruin' policy of the IWW-SLP in the early decades following the (American) Revolution from which they never really recovered.
*you probably get some really fun border blasters out of it though
I feel compelled to mention that the mother-in-law sandwich is a real Chicagoland regional specialty.
Mother-in-law (sandwich) - Wikipedia
The chili probably makes the difference between it being completely inedible and barely passable, lol.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Mexico has kept a shoulder-length distance from the American Commonweath by the later 20th century and "modern day" of the author's viewpoint just purely because of how many good trade deals and investments and loan readjustments the PRI could have shaken out of big European capital back in like the 60s as like the Yugoslavia to America's Soviet Russia and acting as a kind of non-aligned clearing house to get around formal and informal embargoes and quarantines and let spies circulate.
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I just had to look up the mother-in-law sandwich. Now, call me strange, but that sounds delicious and my grandmother agrees with me! (My mother wouldn't, but she doesn't eat anything with bread or cornmeal because she swears by the Keto Diet.) I love the footnote about tamale pie, as well.
I really love this timeline. Finding out about an ATL country through a foreigner's view and interpretation of the culinary landscape and history is so novel. It helps that you've a real knack for writing in an engaging style.
I really love this timeline. Finding out about an ATL country through a foreigner's view and interpretation of the culinary landscape and history is so novel. It helps that you've a real knack for writing in an engaging style.
Kaiphranos
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Yeah, I'd be willing to give the mother-in-law sandwich a try - it doesn't sound any stranger than pav bhaji*, or those vegetarian "hot dogs" they serve at IKEA these days, and those are both perfectly fine.
*I recently made a version that was mostly potato-based, served on potato rolls, and had potato chips on the side. Talk about versatile foodstuffs...
*I recently made a version that was mostly potato-based, served on potato rolls, and had potato chips on the side. Talk about versatile foodstuffs...
As a Chicago-area native, my first thought was "I should go get one of those."
I also know a place nearby that splits the tamale and adds a hot dog in the middle.l, which may well be an improvement.
I also know a place nearby that splits the tamale and adds a hot dog in the middle.l, which may well be an improvement.
I may need the name of that place... for, uh, hands-on research.
Make sure to try more than one. Science must be repeatable!
How are relations between the USA and Canada? Is the Statute of Westminster butterflied away? I would guess Canada/UK relations are much closer ITTL....
I figure any Canada that isn't ground down by the sheer economic, demographic, and social gravity of being America's hat, especially in a situation where the Second American Revolution is being led by the explicitly internationalist IWW which has Canadian chapters, as well as other shared currents like the cooperative and agrarian socialist movements which would become the Canadian Socreds being pretty neighborly to their Farmer-Labor cousins, and etc..,, etc...
Then in the case of that not happening and any nascent uprising being crushed like the Spartacists and German communists in 1919, there would have to be almost a return to direct rule from Westminster, as like British Black-and-Tans supplement the faltering Mounties and take up the position that was filled in Weimar Germany by the Freikorps. So yeah non-ceremonial Governor-General Canada as like the empire's West Germany I could see having a lot of gross like Cold War shit with an internal state terror against trade-unionism and student politics and especially Quebecoise nationalists but with the CIA replaced by the SAS. At least until there's a shot at normalization and detente in like the 70s paving the way for the British to eventually admit to some form of returned sovereignty and social peace as Canada tries to move forward like Ireland after the Troubles and Italy after the Years of Lead.
Then in the case of that not happening and any nascent uprising being crushed like the Spartacists and German communists in 1919, there would have to be almost a return to direct rule from Westminster, as like British Black-and-Tans supplement the faltering Mounties and take up the position that was filled in Weimar Germany by the Freikorps. So yeah non-ceremonial Governor-General Canada as like the empire's West Germany I could see having a lot of gross like Cold War shit with an internal state terror against trade-unionism and student politics and especially Quebecoise nationalists but with the CIA replaced by the SAS. At least until there's a shot at normalization and detente in like the 70s paving the way for the British to eventually admit to some form of returned sovereignty and social peace as Canada tries to move forward like Ireland after the Troubles and Italy after the Years of Lead.
Barring some impossible massive expenditures of manpower and money, Canada will probably be able to mobilize far more people than Britain can ship overseas, and keep them in the field for far longer. Its defense will have to be its own responsibility first and foremost.
In the short term Canada may just outlast the Americans' resolve to keep waging (civil, international) war. In the medium term, a comprehensive system of neighborhood watches and militias; stockpiles of chemical weapons; investment in mechanized forces and observation missions in wars abroad; the creation of a separate system of command and supply (from local provinces or from over the Pacific) to lead the west if it is cut off from the east. Democracy won't survive but Canada might.
A government facing a potential popular civil war like I suggested isn't resolving it by the technical application of military force and how many divisions of regulars you possess, but but how many motivated junior officers can be at the right place in the right time to kettle and violently disperse protests and shatter barricades in the streets and scoop up and imprison/extralegally murder senior activists and organizers like the IWW's "bummery" of semi-professional unionizers who go from job to job specifically as unionizers in those worksites. That's I brought up the freikorps- how many potentially unreliable rank and file soldiers you have is almost irrelevant compared to how many flying columns of paramilitary bands you can let loose as state terror. If actual manpower as in a purely military conflict becomes the main concern then we're suddenly talking about an open shooting war between a now almost completely post-revolution American Commonwealth and the British Empire and suddenly things are all Napoleon-y.
Yeah we’re looking at a Canadian desert of fingers of cake in cream and red jelly called “Men on horses” illegally adopted by right wing farmers in the 1970s and a contributing element of anti-social behaviour disorder (Mental Hygene Sectioning Act).
whereas in Canada it became old hat after the restoration of responsible government.
trust me. It’ll be men on horses. It always is.
whereas in Canada it became old hat after the restoration of responsible government.
trust me. It’ll be men on horses. It always is.
Very nice timeline, I'm glad I finally clicked on it! There are a lot of foods mentioned here that I'd like to try, at least to sate my curiosity. The cultural commentary is fascinating as well. This clearly took a lot of research in agricultural knowledge and social trends that shines through in every detail.
With regards to the Canada discussion, I don't think they're in a position to really defend themselves against the Cooperative Commonwealth, and it's also worth asking whether they'd even need to. So far I haven't noticed any hints that they've had poor relations beyond what you'd expect, nor that Canadian society has been particularly repressive against the left, so to me it's just as likely that this version of Canada has ridden out the storm by adopting piecemeal reforms and keeping the Blue exiles with their calls for war at arms' length. The big war in Europe would also play a role in drawing down tensions between Canada and the CC, with one country presumably being involved and the other a pro-Allied neutral.
With regards to the Canada discussion, I don't think they're in a position to really defend themselves against the Cooperative Commonwealth, and it's also worth asking whether they'd even need to. So far I haven't noticed any hints that they've had poor relations beyond what you'd expect, nor that Canadian society has been particularly repressive against the left, so to me it's just as likely that this version of Canada has ridden out the storm by adopting piecemeal reforms and keeping the Blue exiles with their calls for war at arms' length. The big war in Europe would also play a role in drawing down tensions between Canada and the CC, with one country presumably being involved and the other a pro-Allied neutral.
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Awh man this is awesome. Something I'd love to see is like an alternative version of Gatorade: something that was designed in a periphreal region for some purpose (OTL it was a sports drink designed by scientists at UFlorida to try and boost their football team) that becomes a "normal" drink of the masses.