Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
The development and evolution of the US Highway system has always fascinated me... whenever I'm traveling somewhere, if I see a sign that says "Old US *whatever* Hwy", I always take it just to see what it passes through...
So in 2014 Tonga suggested that they would be willing to cede the Minerva Reefs to Fiji, which also claims them, in exchange for the Lau Islands, citing historic ties between Tonga and the Lau Islands as their reasoning.
Now this is funny because Tonga claims the Minerva Reefs in part because these reefs are traditional fishing grounds for the people of the Lau Islands.
A Condominium is obviously the only logical solution....
So in 2014 Tonga suggested that they would be willing to cede the Minerva Reefs to Fiji, which also claims them, in exchange for the Lau Islands, citing historic ties between Tonga and the Lau Islands as their reasoning.
Now this is funny because Tonga claims the Minerva Reefs in part because these reefs are traditional fishing grounds for the people of the Lau Islands.
B_Munro made a map where Napoleon and co conquer and vassalize basically the entire world, but the European empire suffers a revolution and flees to America. Russia, the Asian colonies (from Syrie to Perse through Inde through Insulinde to Annam) largely break off and China reunifies from puppet states but the Commutate Globale holds onto most of Africa, Lebanon, Cambodia, East Arabia etc.
Last edited:
As with the British and Americans. I wonder if WW2 hadn't occurred Britain would allow *alt-Israel to develop nukes
While back on the topic of Napoleon, I found this map of Napoleon III's ambitions in Europe on Reddit:
I tried my hand at making a WorldA patch.
Prominent features:
I tried my hand at making a WorldA patch.
Prominent features:
- French Belgium/Rhineland (of course)
- Italy is divided into three kingdoms and the Papal States, with the latter leading an Italian Confederation
- Algeria is under the Arab Kingdom of Abdelkader, with only the already Frenchified parts of Algeria remaining outside the Kingdom
- Austria loses some territories in the Adriatic to Italy, but gains Silesia and Kiel as well as leadership of a South German Confederation
- Poland is once again independent, with borders approximate to those of the Duchy of Warsaw
- The South Slavs are united under the King of Serbia, and Romania has also been unified
- Greece controls Constantinople
Lol, I made the original map, it's very surreal how often I see it floating around.
Excellent work on the map!
Another map I'd like to make would be of Napoleon III's ambitions in Latin America, but unfortunately, I can't find too many specific details regarding borders. The main things I know about are his support for the Second Mexican Empire (obviously), support for the Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia (potentially including expansion into Chile?), and the general idea of a "Kingdom of the Andes" centered around Ecuador. That one's the most obscure, but as far as I can tell he was interested in working with local monarchists (including the current President of Ecuador) in establishing a political union of the Andean countries (what particular borders those would be I don't know) under the rule of either a Catholic prince of his choosing or potentially himself, with the Kingdom being similar to the British dominions.
If anyone has any info on other colonial ambitions he had elsewhere in the world I'd love to learn more.
Something I noticed about this early Yugoslavia is how Napoleon III wanted Montenegro to include Bosnia and Herzegovina, and how Romania still has that small bit of Bessarabia that Russia annexed in 1878.
While we're on the subject of Napoleon, Napoleonide was mentioned in this thread not too long ago as part of General Michał Sokolnicki's project. I think I found the most complete description of his desired borders of Eastern Europe. (I couldn't google the original, but I did find a Russian translation from the French, published in Belarus in the early 2000s, which is better than nothing.)
…Poland would have been given the following boundaries:
- the Oder, beginning from its source, in the west. The left bank of this river could also be partially annexed from Moravia, Bohemia, and Saxony;
- the ranges of the Carpathian Mountains and the Dniester, beginning from Khotyn to its confluence, in the south;
- and in the north everything that the generosity and high wisdom of Napoleon would allow Poland to annex and restore.
To the east, Poland would border the following states:
1) The Duchy of Livonia, bounded by the Dvina, Aiviekste, Lake Peipus and the Narva, including the islands of Hiiumaa and Saaremaa.
2) The Duchy of Polotsk, with part of its territory confiscated from the Pskov Governorate, bounded on one side by the Dvina and the Lovat, and on the other by the mouth of the Narva (where it flows into Lake Peipus).
3) The Duchy of Smolensk (not including the city, which should become a Polish frontier outpost), enclosed between the Dvina and the Dnieper, whose sources would also fall within its limits, extending to the first arm of the Volga.
4) The Duchy of Mstislavl, consisting partly of the territories of the Mogilev and Smolensk governorates, delineated by the Dnieper, the Iput and the Pola, beginning at Bryansk and ending at Dorogobuzh.
5) The Duchy of Chernigov, or Novgorod-Seversk, should be preserved in its current borders.
6) The Duchy of Poltava, adjoining the Dnieper from the Desna to Oryol in the south and rising along it northeastward to the sources of the Seversky Donets to Kharkiv and further bounded by a line passing through Sudzha, Rylsk and Putyvl’.
7) Napoléonide. This state would have consisted of: part of the Governorate of Yekaterinoslav beyond the Dnieper, the Governorate of Taurida, the valley of the Seversky Donets to the confluence of this river with the Don. The Don from its confluence with the Azov and Black Seas to the mouth of the Dnieper would serve as Napoléonide's border to the south.
On the territory of Russia should also be created:
8) The duchy of St. Petersburg, bounded by the Volkhov, with its capital in Yamburg.
9) The city of St. Petersburg under the direct protection of the Great Emperor Napoleon, like the city of Danzig.
Bohemia should be torn away from Austria, and the Austrian lands transferred to Poland should be compensated by the transfer of the "three Hospodarships" to Austria. (Wallachia, Moldavia, and Bessarabia, as far as I understand).
Also, fake prophets and/or bribes should convince Emperor Alexander to return to Paul's idea of the Indian March.
I got something like this:
…Poland would have been given the following boundaries:
- the Oder, beginning from its source, in the west. The left bank of this river could also be partially annexed from Moravia, Bohemia, and Saxony;
- the ranges of the Carpathian Mountains and the Dniester, beginning from Khotyn to its confluence, in the south;
- and in the north everything that the generosity and high wisdom of Napoleon would allow Poland to annex and restore.
To the east, Poland would border the following states:
1) The Duchy of Livonia, bounded by the Dvina, Aiviekste, Lake Peipus and the Narva, including the islands of Hiiumaa and Saaremaa.
2) The Duchy of Polotsk, with part of its territory confiscated from the Pskov Governorate, bounded on one side by the Dvina and the Lovat, and on the other by the mouth of the Narva (where it flows into Lake Peipus).
3) The Duchy of Smolensk (not including the city, which should become a Polish frontier outpost), enclosed between the Dvina and the Dnieper, whose sources would also fall within its limits, extending to the first arm of the Volga.
4) The Duchy of Mstislavl, consisting partly of the territories of the Mogilev and Smolensk governorates, delineated by the Dnieper, the Iput and the Pola, beginning at Bryansk and ending at Dorogobuzh.
5) The Duchy of Chernigov, or Novgorod-Seversk, should be preserved in its current borders.
6) The Duchy of Poltava, adjoining the Dnieper from the Desna to Oryol in the south and rising along it northeastward to the sources of the Seversky Donets to Kharkiv and further bounded by a line passing through Sudzha, Rylsk and Putyvl’.
7) Napoléonide. This state would have consisted of: part of the Governorate of Yekaterinoslav beyond the Dnieper, the Governorate of Taurida, the valley of the Seversky Donets to the confluence of this river with the Don. The Don from its confluence with the Azov and Black Seas to the mouth of the Dnieper would serve as Napoléonide's border to the south.
On the territory of Russia should also be created:
8) The duchy of St. Petersburg, bounded by the Volkhov, with its capital in Yamburg.
9) The city of St. Petersburg under the direct protection of the Great Emperor Napoleon, like the city of Danzig.
Bohemia should be torn away from Austria, and the Austrian lands transferred to Poland should be compensated by the transfer of the "three Hospodarships" to Austria. (Wallachia, Moldavia, and Bessarabia, as far as I understand).
Also, fake prophets and/or bribes should convince Emperor Alexander to return to Paul's idea of the Indian March.
I got something like this:
Last edited:
When the US wanted to take over France
Open access // by Annie Lacroix-Riz (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, May 2003)
mondediplo.com
Apparently there were plans for the US to take over France as part of a protectorate that would include France, Germany, Italy and Japan after WW2
This is the part that really confuses me. What constitutes a river valley compared to the basin?
Temporary occupation under AMGOTWhen the US wanted to take over France
Open access // by Annie Lacroix-Riz (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, May 2003)mondediplo.com
Apparently there were plans for the US to take over France as part of a protectorate that would include France, Germany, Italy and Japan after WW2
I think that in boundary determination, "valley" and "basin" are used pretty interchangeably... one possible exception would be where a tributary passes through a water gap - e.g. the Valley of the Danube in Wallachia would include the basin up to the crest of the Carpathians, but would not include the basin of the Olt that lies on the north side of the ridge...
I would think that "valley" does not include the basins of major tributaries to the river, while basin is the entire drainage area of a river.
Interesting. I've separately wondered about the allied powers annexing their occupied parcels of Germany and Austria after the war.When the US wanted to take over France
Open access // by Annie Lacroix-Riz (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, May 2003)mondediplo.com
Apparently there were plans for the US to take over France as part of a protectorate that would include France, Germany, Italy and Japan after WW2