Fallout WI: How long would the Sino-American War go on without the Great War?

[Tresckow]

Something I've wondered for years, how long would the war between China and America go without the Great War of 2077? According to the Fallout Bible, American forces had reached as far as the Gobi Desert on the mainland. My guess is Korea was united or invaded by the Americans and used as a launching pad for an invasion of China, or maybe the Soviets give the Americans a way in under the philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It seemed like the war was starting to get close to ending with the Americans occupying parts of the mainland, but how much longer would it take before Beijing capitulates? And what would a post-war China look like?

Or, if the war isn't as close as I thought, how much longer would the war drag on, and who would win? Would it just be a perpetual meat grinder until one side decides to say "let's just stop this, I'm done." and a white peace is signed?

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

A while ago, I read some fan material about the Fallout universe in a dedicated wiki. It had the Chinese routed on pretty much every front by October 2077, having been driven out of their conquered territories in Okinawa, Korea, Indochina and Indonesia. American (+liberated Korean) forces were advancing towards Beijing and Shanghai from the north and from the beachheads on the Yellow Sea shoreline. That to me sounds like such a losing position in which the Chinese leadership pressing the button would sound quite the logical thing to do. I don't know how long the war could have dragged on using that as a base, but probably not much longer.

As for what the Americans would have done with China, I'd like to imagine them to have been completely out of touch with reality by that point, so just installing some "too American" stuff while simultaneously being incredibly racist towards the Chinese would sound about right. Pieces of the country would likely get hacked off too, like Tibet and Sinkiang re-gaining their independence and Korea receiving bits of southern Manchuria.

By the way, if anyone ever decides to do some collaborative Fallout stuff, hit me up -- the wiki is out of commission, but I never managed to put on paper all my ideas in it.

 

[Gukpard]

A while ago, I read some fan material about the Fallout universe in a dedicated wiki. It had the Chinese routed on pretty much every front by October 2077, having been driven out of their conquered territories in Okinawa, Korea, Indochina and Indonesia. American (+liberated Korean) forces were advancing towards Beijing and Shanghai from the north and from the beachheads on the Yellow Sea shoreline. That to me sounds like such a losing position in which the Chinese leadership pressing the button would sound quite the logical thing to do. I don't know how long the war could have dragged on using that as a base, but probably not much longer.

As for what the Americans would have done with China, I'd like to imagine them to have been completely out of touch with reality by that point, so just installing some "too American" stuff while simultaneously being incredibly racist towards the Chinese would sound about right. Pieces of the country would likely get hacked off too, like Tibet and Sinkiang re-gaining their independence and Korea receiving bits of southern Manchuria.

By the way, if anyone ever decides to do some collaborative Fallout stuff, hit me up -- the wiki is out of commission, but I never managed to put on paper all my ideas in it.

Yeah, China was at the brink of defeat

 

[Faeelin]

Yeah, China was at the brink of defeat

Per American sources, anyway.

The presence of Chinese forces throughout America suggests a different story.

 

[Helaena I Targaryen]

Per American sources, anyway.

The presence of Chinese forces throughout America suggests a different story.

There's a difference between armies marching on your soil vs. infiltrators and spies lurking in the shadows.

 

[Tresckow]

Per American sources, anyway.

The presence of Chinese forces throughout America suggests a different story.

I mean the Japanese had forces all over Asia when they finally surrendered in August 1945. It was just because their capital was threatened by nuclear annihilation after two of their cities were wiped out that they surrendered. I imagine China would be in a similar position if American forces are pressing on Beijing.

 

[Tresckow]

Also, what would post-war America be like? The late USA in Fallout seems like it had become a shadow of its former democratic self, becoming openly ruthless against its former allies (Canada) and its own people. I also think that the Sino-American War would be to America what World War II was to Great Britain: a victory marking the end of their dominance. Eleven years of brutal fighting surely bled the US's male population almost dry, meaning that there will be a huge birth deficit for the war era, and I assume the US's birth rates were declining by 2066 as projected in our timeline. Not only would there be a gap in males and females, but this gap would also mean there's less able-bodied men to serve in the postwar military. This makes me wonder, which countries would become matches or stronger than the United States? India? Japan? Russia?

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

Also, what would post-war America be like? The late USA in Fallout seems like it had become a shadow of its former democratic self, becoming openly ruthless against its former allies (Canada) and its own people. I also think that the Sino-American War would be to America what World War II was to Great Britain: a victory marking the end of their dominance. Eleven years of brutal fighting surely bled the US's male population almost dry, meaning that there will be a huge birth deficit for the war era, and I assume the US's birth rates were declining by 2066 as projected in our timeline. Not only would there be a gap in males and females, but this gap would also mean there's less able-bodied men to serve in the postwar military. This makes me wonder, which countries would become matches or stronger than the United States? India? Japan? Russia?

My headcanon is that Japan would be the United Kingdom of the post-war era, having been subjected to Chinese bombing raids constantly during the war. India I could see as a credible challenger to America, at least if they emerge from the war relatively intact -- if they even participated in it, that is.

 

[Faeelin]

I mean the Japanese had forces all over Asia when they finally surrendered in August 1945. It was just because their capital was threatened by nuclear annihilation after two of their cities were wiped out that they surrendered. I imagine China would be in a similar position if American forces are pressing on Beijing.

Note that it's the Enclave, IIRC, who says the US was winning. Query how reliable they are.

 

[The Stormlord]

As for what the Americans would have done with China, I'd like to imagine them to have been completely out of touch with reality by that point, so just installing some "too American" stuff while simultaneously being incredibly racist towards the Chinese would sound about right. Pieces of the country would likely get hacked off too, like Tibet and Sinkiang re-gaining their independence and Korea receiving bits of southern Manchuria.

Depending on whether Taiwan/RoC was still a thing, they would definitely have been advocating to take power - somewhat unrealistically IMO. Of course there may also have been Soviet interests in play too - warm Amero-Soviet relations and the Gobi Desert Campaign suggests the USSR was at least fighting on the same side as America. The thing is, we simply know too little about the Sino-American War (not even a full list of combatants!) to make any guesses about the shape of the post-war world or what kind of deals would have been made at *Yalta.

Eleven years of brutal fighting surely bled the US's male population almost dry, meaning that there will be a huge birth deficit for the war era, and I assume the US's birth rates were declining by 2066 as projected in our timeline. Not only would there be a gap in males and females, but this gap would also mean there's less able-bodied men to serve in the postwar military.

Apparently US population was some 400 million - too much for the war to put an overly large dent in it, and we see women present on the front line in OA so that should limit a possible gender disparity. The US in this scenario is also transitioning to fusion power while most of the rest of the world is still using (dwindling reserves of) oil - Western Europe has already become Syria writ large so no contest from there, there's no credible threat on the North American continent either, the USSR may be just coming out of GPW 2 itself depending on whether it fought in the war. So American hegemony for at least the next few decades.