I vaguely recall a crazy awesome idea where the Confederacy and Deseret secede at the same time and racialist Mormon archeology fills the Ahnenerbe Nazi occult angle for the Confederacy. While Deseret never successfully broke away I could still see a similar crosspollination given the close ties between the Rebs and the Mormons!
TL-191: After the End
- Thread starter David bar Elias
- Start date
There really isn’t an analogue to this in the United States by 2022, outside of the smallest cliques of the lunatic fringe.
During the postwar years, there were those in the former CSA who tried to romanticize the pre-Featherston Confederacy as some kind of inherent noble or chivalric society. These arguments ultimately did not find much of an audience in a Midsouth in which each postwar generation was educated through the public school system on the realities of the CSA, including the history of slavery and the official discrimination that existed in the Confederacy before the Freedom Party.
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WanderingProfessor
Banned
Is there an equivalent of The West Wing in this universe? It wouldn't be the same show given your butterflies for this timeline but the White House and the President are very prominent topics in the United States so a show similar to TWW could exist.
There have been a few postwar US television shows in TTL that are set in fictional presidential administrations. The most popular and best received of these shows was Rough Rider, which aired from 1989 to 2000. The concept of this show was of a president modeled closely on Theodore Roosevelt being president in a “modern” setting.
Found it! Still a cool concept even if it doesn't mesh well with this thread.
WanderingProfessor
Banned
David, what's your opinion on the concept of Alternate History Brothers by Thande's Look to the West? We've discussed the idea before but to summarize the whole concept it's basically fictional characters that have different names and lives but are based on one or two historical individuals. As I said, many OTL figures did have ancestors from the 18th-early 20th centuries or even further back so it's more than likely that they would marry different people and have alternate offspring because of the different socio-political climate assuming they are lucky and survive.
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As of writing this, I recently watched the latest episode of World War Two in Real Time's "Out of the Foxholes", in which Indy Neidell stated that the persecution of Freemasons was none more severe than in France during the Holocaust. With France having a much more overt, reactionary Catholic, ultramontanist stance ITTL under the Action Française (presumably so), is persecution just as, if not more, severe than IOTL? Like IOTL as well, the spread of a "Judeo-Masonic conspiracy" will no doubt flourish.
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What's Savitri Devi doing now ITTL in the absence of the Nazis? "Esoteric actionism"? Or a prominent ideologue in the actionist regime?
This literally just popped into my head when I read your post but hear me out: Neo-Mithraism. The first serious modern research on Mithraism was done by a Frenchman who hilariously misinterpreted it into a straight transplant of Iranian mythology so it suits her "weird completely wrong interpretation of an oriental religion" thing while being a plausible thing to pick up in a militarized alternate France.
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It sounds like an interesting idea. Perhaps there are fictional characters in this ATL who fit the criteria of “Alternate History Brothers.”
WanderingProfessor
Banned
Certainly. After all, Turtledove has created fictional characters based on real life people such as Kurt Haldweim for Kurt Waldheim and Jake Featherston for Adolf Hitler in his works so it's not unreasonable that all versions of TL-191 (including yours) or timelines with PODS in the mid to late 19th and 20th centuries could have their fair share of analogues to OTL individuals, trends or works though the context will be very different.
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Since there's a culture of collective guilt in the UK and France about having been allied with and protecting the CSA throughout its existence in the post-war world, is colonialism taught in the same or similar light as the Holocaust is in Germany? Or is there some attempt at whitewashing/revisionism?
I wouldn’t describe the situation in either Britain or France necessarily as “collective guilt,” in regards to the former alliance with the CSA. It’s more of a case of what might be termed “national regret” in both countries, though more pronounced in Britain by 2022; the idea being that, aside from the moral failing of supporting a slave state in the 1860s and a genocidal dictatorship during the Second Great War, it was also a terrible mistake to antagonize the United States.
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The respective heydays of the British and French empires are not necessarily generally focused on in either country’s education system by 2022. This is in part because an in-depth focus on colonialism is seen in both countries as having to focus on the post-Second Great War collapse of both empires.
In fact there are at least two prominent examples - Daniel MacArthur Junior, explicitly a half-brother to Our Timeline’s Douglas MacArthur, and Charles W. La Follette (Described by Harry Tirtledove himself as the local alternative to Robert La Follette Junior).
WanderingProfessor
Banned
In true Turtledovian fashion, he would do the same with most people born after 1922 while leaving others with the same names and birth dates but may or may not have the same jobs or influence as OTL like he did with Jimmy Carter.
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That was something that I didn’t really want to do while writing about TTL.
That unfortunately may be a possibility, especially if he gets a bad injury while playing football.