How did the British view Indian food?
- Thread starter PsyloSurgeon
- Start date
You know, I stopped reading the Black Butler manga when it showed Victoria and British people practically floating through clouds from curry. Victoria hated curry but they made some in her kitchen each day incase some Indians might drop by. In the old British cookbooks they had curry powder being added to food after it was cooked, rather than being mixed in and cooked during it.
PsyloSurgeon
Banned
I grew up eating Indian food, and I can tell you that is the most puzzling dish I know of. I love Khichdi, but Kedgeree seems like something from an ATL or something.
PsyloSurgeon
Banned
You know, I've always had the impression that the British were somehow completely isolated from the Indian populace when they were occupying the land, and had no interaction with Indian cuisine or culture. It's quite interesting to know that this was not necessarily the case.
Are you open with telling us more about your great-uncle and Great grandad's time in India as it sounds quite interesting.
I've no idea how accurate it is but Jennifer Paterson of Two Fat Ladies fame said that it was brought back to England by a Colonel who told his cook, "This is what we had, now you make it". And that's what the cook came up with. There's another origin story that the original was made with duck because the English cook who made it had never come across Bombay Duck before and didn't know it was a fish.
Don't know that much, but neither were officers, think they both made Sargent, maybe my great grandad made CSM, don't know. I do know he was in India for quite a number of years, 8 I think, Back home for 2/3 years then back to India for a couple more, then First World War. After that he may have gone to Russia, again not sure. But he was in the army from 1898 to 1923.
As for my great uncle, Second World War, North Africa, Italy then the Far East including Eastern India/Burma.
Another great uncle was in the Far East and was a POW, spent quite sometime on the Burma Railway! He died from his wounds in 1967
The Victorians did eat curry. It was extremely mild curry, as in one teaspoon of "curry powder" in a dish meant for a large family and still considered spicy and exotic, but they did.
Dripping, apples and milk: Making curry the Victorian way
As a Victorian curry recipe surfaces in an East Yorkshire archive, BBC News Online puts it to the test.
www.bbc.co.uk
Currytural appropriation: The Victorian taste for curry — SECONDS | Food history
As the British presence in India increased, so did their taste for curry.
www.secondshistory.com
Oh wow that is very mild...what on earth were the Victorians eating back thenThe Victorians did eat curry. It was extremely mild curry, as in one teaspoon of "curry powder" in a dish meant for a large family and still considered spicy and exotic, but they did.
Dripping, apples and milk: Making curry the Victorian way
As a Victorian curry recipe surfaces in an East Yorkshire archive, BBC News Online puts it to the test.www.bbc.co.uk
Currytural appropriation: The Victorian taste for curry — SECONDS | Food history
As the British presence in India increased, so did their taste for curry.
I suspect this view comes from all the period dramas. As usual, things depended on individuals and the era of rule but administrators and officers were expected to be very knowledgable of their local communities (e.g. officers were expected to speak the languages of their soldiers).
Basically what @IndefatigableRN said. The Indian Civil Service always operated through Indian subordinates, while to get a Commission in the regular Indian Army required the ability to learn at least one of the main Indian languages. British Merchants and bankers in India had to get along with Indian equivalents and so on.
Even in the higher social circles the staff of domestic residences were locals and every such British child born in India would have an Indian "nanny" equivalent.
A District Officer might be the only European in a large area and the Imperial Representative at a Princely State even more isolated. And responsible for ensuring the local ruler didn't break the unwritten rules. Children of said rulers often were sent to British boarding schools. (An Indian Prince or Princess being a staple of stories in such settings.)
Social interactions in the Raj were greater and more nuanced than in popular literature or dramas. High social class could to an extent trump race. As could wealth.
The one Big NoNo was sexual relations between a British (or European) women and Indian men. Liasons the other way round was of course fine, even though marriages were disapproved of. Women coming out in the annual "Fishing Fleet" were the brides that officers etc were expected to pursue.
ps the above applies mainly to the period of the Raj, though elements would be the same earlier in the nineteenth century under the East India Company. Before then social relations were more fluid.
ETA For clarity, none of the above implies that British rule in India was anything other than exploitation or that the British in India weren't racist. Just that there were nuances where cooperation was feasible between firms and individuals. And that for the families most involved, long term multi-generational residents, their knowledge of India was deeper than how it is often portrayed.
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As Finnbar shows it's that false perception of isolation that's the problem.
That doesn't mean that any adoption of cuisine is going to be spot on, after all compare actual vindaloo with the generic restaurant perversion. And Chinese food.
When a member ordered fresh papaya at the Singapore Club he received tinned apricots because "the club did not serve native food". From The Decline and Fall of the British Empire 1781-1997 by Piers Brendon, pg. 349
British Indians satire on the English attitude to Indian food.
Indian food in England is what they go for when they go out to get drunk.
In Ireland, we go for Chinese food.
Chicken tikka masala is now a true British national dish, not only because it is the most popular, but because it is a perfect illustration of the way Britain absorbs and adapts external influences. Chicken tikka is an Indian dish. The masala sauce was added to satisfy the desire of British people to have their meat served in gravy
Chicken tikka masala - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In Ireland, we go for Chinese food.
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Honestly I think the best source for how British people saw colonial food is the history of ketchup, the creation of it and other British sauces were attempts to recreate the fish sauces the British officers had tasted in Southeast Asia. It’s pretty clear that the British did partake in the local cuisine. Also if we compare it to the French, there don’t seem to have been any major transfer of British or Dutch cuisine to the natives, which we would expect if they made native cooks make them European cuisine.
What do you know. Looks like Papayas were originally from Central America but were taking to Southeast Asia and became popular. Not sure if they would have grown them on the island of Singapore anyways though, so perhaps the club just didn’t get them. Or, more likely, they were serving European food much like how so many grocery stores owned by immigrants around the world import preserved food from their homelands. Would certainly be rude for the waiters or club staff not actually mentioning that they didn’t have a fruit and offer the other, rather than doing it afterwards. Poor service.
Worcestershire sauce allegedly has the same origin, although that might just have been a story made up by the inventors (which in itself would tell you about British attitudes towards Indian food).
Derek Pullem
Donor
True to point (like all Irishmen drink Guinness, all Frenchmen have mistresses and all Americans are overweight)
Chicken Tikka Massala is something I see ordered VERY rarely with friends. I am not saying that Indian food hasn't evolved to meet British taste but I'd also say British tastes are adapting to Indian food as well.
In the Victorian era there are a few crossover dishes but mostly it is one cuisine for the British and one for the "natives" (plus some relatively uncommon adventurous types )