The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

[Introverted]

In other words, Fertig would have unintentionally and likely against his wishes (Since by all reports he was someone that cared deeply about the Filipino people and have a great deal of respect for them), do the same thing to the Filipino allies under his command what in OTL MacArthur did to him: By hogging all of the media attention and stealing all of the glory, despite the latter being the ones who were on the ground, and did the majority of the fighting and sacrifice.

To be honest a lot of the Filipino and American soldiers under Fertig would be fine with him hogging the glory.

Considering that in events were he won aka did not die and did succeed in driving out the Japanese:

- Said Filipinos are outside the Japanese Bootheel (Even failing the reconstruction just means that they don't join the OFN and just become an observer). Not included in the game but it is also after the collapse of the Japanese Economy meaning that the Philippines may be economically on the rise given open trade with the USA.
- A majority of the collaborators were big land owners meaning that with them marginalized/out of the picture then there would be massive land reform (A big issue in Philippine politics before and after the war).
- The fact that it is either the Southern part of the Philippines or a collaboration government with the communists means that "Imperial" Manila won't be likely to have such a dominance over Philippine politics means that the political scene would be less dominated by borderline feudal rulers.
- The Americans can either go home to the USA or settle peacefully after fighting for what seemed to be a hopeless forever war.
- The Filipinos genuinely liked Fertig mostly because in many cases he was assisting the local governments against Japan and promoting individuals based on merit. Not to mention that his ragtag group of engineers were legitimately that vital against Japan as in the spine of Philippine resistance in the South.

They would not be angry that he gains the glory because as far as they are concerned he actually earned said glory.

 

[Whiteshore]

With how Toolbox Theory revamped peaceful reunifications, one of the more terrifying peaceful unifications is Igor Shafarevich reunifying with Rogneda's Kemerovo, especially if Rogneda had pardoned all generals that could be pardoned, as Shafarevich recieves access to the officer corps and industrial base of Kemerovo without firing a single shot and his regime is now one of the more powerful Russias out there.

 

[Obern]

With how Toolbox Theory revamped peaceful reunifications, one of the more terrifying peaceful unifications is Igor Shafarevich reunifying with Rogneda's Kemerovo, especially if Rogneda had pardoned all generals that could be pardoned, as Shafarevich recieves access to the officer corps and industrial base of Kemerovo without firing a single shot and his regime is now one of the more powerful Russias out there.

Rogneda is portrayed as an authoritarian personality in the game. Will she give up the throne for the sake of Shafarevich's presidency?

 

[Bountifulauto82]

Rogneda is portrayed as an authoritarian personality in the game. Will she give up the throne for the sake of Shafarevich's presidency?

Personally I think they need some unique scenarios for peaceful monarchist unificaitions. For instance a Rogneda-Shaffy unification should end with Shafarevich becoming prime minister while Rogneda remains monarch.

 

[bill clinton01]

As a member of the team I can say without reservation that no, David Duke was not a planned president.

is there any planning going on for tno2, or are your exclusively focusing on filling out current content

 

[Obern]

Natsoc Yazov patch when??

 

[Bountifulauto82]

Natsoc Yazov patch when??

Aryan Brotherhood-Omsk-Amur one struggle

 

[Meshakhad]

Personally I think they need some unique scenarios for peaceful monarchist unificaitions. For instance a Rogneda-Shaffy unification should end with Shafarevich becoming prime minister while Rogneda remains monarch.

That could actually be the pattern for most peaceful unifications between a monarchy and a republic: the monarch gives up some power but remains on the throne, while the previous leader of the republic becomes the new Prime Minister. The catch is that this sort of thing would require numerous superregional trees to represent the various fusion governments. I'd probably save it for some future rework that adds superregional trees to all fusion governments.

On a sidenote, is there a list of which Russian factions can peacefully unify with each other?

 

[chankljp]

Personally I think they need some unique scenarios for peaceful monarchist unificaitions. For instance a Rogneda-Shaffy unification should end with Shafarevich becoming prime minister while Rogneda remains monarch.

I am still personally waiting for a special 'extended family reunion' event between Vladimir's Vyatka, and Mikhail's Chita.

Obviously, if Vyatka is either LibDem or ConDem, and Mikhail wins the power struggle against the White generals in Chita, I can see things going in a civil or even heart warming manner. With an AI controlled Chita being willy to step down as Tsar, to become a Prince in Vladimir's court instead, while Sobchak would be able to integrate himself into Vyatka's politics, serving as the leader for Kadets' Far Eastern branch.

Under player control, however, things can go a bit more interesting. Since I don't think that someone playing as Chita would just be willing to step down, and insist on Vladimir stepping down instead. So... Perhaps some kind of duo monarchy arrangement?

Also, if there is a peaceful reunification between Kemerovo and either Vyatka or Chita, there should be an event on the Tsar officially recognizing House Rurik as part of the Russian Imperial Court.

 

[chankljp]

3. Yeltsin, Wagner, Petlin, Vlasov, Kirpichnikov, Werbell, Yagoda are despised.

Rodzaevsky is compared with Savinkov. Strong Russian Vozhd.

I have been thinking more about this, and you know what I realized?

The Russian TNO fan community hates Yeltsin and Petlin because they were viewed as too pro-Western, and would put the country under American's economic orbit, instead of becoming a great power on its own. At the same time, they love Rodzaevsky for being a 'Strong Russian Vozhd'.

While in reality, Rodzaevsky's Russian National State would most likely end up looking more like OTL 1990s' Yeltsin's Russia compared to TNO Yeltsin or Petlin. Why? Because for all of his ultra-nationalistic rhetoric, Rodzaevsky's Russia would be totally dependent on Japanese support in order to develop its economy, due to them having totally alienated any other potential trade partner such as OFN and most likely Italy. As such, under his rule, Russia would economically become a corporate bordello in which Japanese Zaibatsu and Keiretsu could run wild to a larger degree compared to what even Western companies were able to get away with in OTL 1990s. Russia would end up becoming a country that produces nothing but guns and tanks, while serving as a dumping ground for Japanese finished products and a source of cheap oil and gas for the Co-Prosperity Sphere. And you can be sure that Rodzaevsky's lackeys in the Russian Fascist Party would end up becoming oligarchs, getting rich from pay off given to them by Japanese investors in exchange for being given monopolies in the Russian economy, while treating their Russian workers like serfs.

 

[Obern]

I have been thinking more about this, and you know what I realized?

The Russian TNO fan community hates Yeltsin and Petlin because they were viewed as too pro-Western, and would put the country under American's economic orbit, instead of becoming a great power on its own. At the same time, they love Rodzaevsky for being a 'Strong Russian Vozhd'.

While in reality, Rodzaevsky's Russian National State would most likely end up looking more like OTL 1990s' Yeltsin's Russia compared to TNO Yeltsin or Petlin. Why? Because for all of his ultra-nationalistic rhetoric, Rodzaevsky's Russia would be totally dependent on Japanese support in order to develop its economy, due to them having totally alienated any other potential trade partner such as OFN and most likely Italy. As such, under his rule, Russia would economically become a corporate bordello in which Japanese Zaibatsu and Keiretsu could run wild to a larger degree compared to what even Western companies were able to get away with in OTL 1990s. Russia would end up becoming a country that produces nothing but guns and tanks, while serving as a dumping ground for Japanese finished products and a source of cheap oil and gas for the Co-Prosperity Sphere. And you can be sure that Rodzaevsky's lackeys in the Russian Fascist Party would end up becoming oligarchs, getting rich from pay off given to them by Japanese investors in exchange for being given monopolies in the Russian economy, while treating their Russian workers like serfs.

I agree. Rodzaevsky's Russia will look like modern Iran I think.

Rodzaevsky also has a very weak industry and science in the game. The Russia of Serov, Bunyanchenko and Kemerovo is much more attractive as nationalist Russian regimes. They have a powerful industry and army. Serov's Russia has the most powerful industry in the game, my jaw dropped when I churned out factories like pies.

 

[RiverDelta]

If you really want a strong, nationalist, fashy-adjacent society, go with Matkovsky, Bunyachenko, or Shafarevich or something.

 

[Obern]

If you really want a strong, nationalist, fashy-adjacent society, go with Matkovsky, Bunyachenko, or Shafarevich or something.

My personal favorite is Yury's Kemerovo. Soс-dem monarchy. Modern Japan(modern society + traditional culture vibe), only instead of Japanese culture - ancient Russian.

 

[Twiggierjet]

I have been thinking more about this, and you know what I realized?

The Russian TNO fan community hates Yeltsin and Petlin because they were viewed as too pro-Western, and would put the country under American's economic orbit, instead of becoming a great power on its own. At the same time, they love Rodzaevsky for being a 'Strong Russian Vozhd'.

While in reality, Rodzaevsky's Russian National State would most likely end up looking more like OTL 1990s' Yeltsin's Russia compared to TNO Yeltsin or Petlin. Why? Because for all of his ultra-nationalistic rhetoric, Rodzaevsky's Russia would be totally dependent on Japanese support in order to develop its economy, due to them having totally alienated any other potential trade partner such as OFN and most likely Italy. As such, under his rule, Russia would economically become a corporate bordello in which Japanese Zaibatsu and Keiretsu could run wild to a larger degree compared to what even Western companies were able to get away with in OTL 1990s. Russia would end up becoming a country that produces nothing but guns and tanks, while serving as a dumping ground for Japanese finished products and a source of cheap oil and gas for the Co-Prosperity Sphere. And you can be sure that Rodzaevsky's lackeys in the Russian Fascist Party would end up becoming oligarchs, getting rich from pay off given to them by Japanese investors in exchange for being given monopolies in the Russian economy, while treating their Russian workers like serfs.

Well yes, but this implies that the sort of nationalist who would unironically support Rodzaevsky because "le strong vozhd" is someone who actually cares about his country becoming genuinely successful. In my experience for most of them the ideal state is a permanent state of impoverished mobilization where, as you said, nothing is produced but guns and tanks and the population is sustained on fanaticism for the ideology and hatred of outliers. A country that is genuinely prosperous and successful is usually viewed by them as weak and decadent.

 

[chankljp]

Well yes, but this implies that the sort of nationalist who would unironically support Rodzaevsky because "le strong vozhd" is someone who actually cares about his country becoming genuinely successful. In my experience for most of them the ideal state is a permanent state of impoverished mobilization where, as you said, nothing is produced but guns and tanks and the population is sustained on fanaticism for the ideology and hatred of outliers. A country that is genuinely prosperous and successful is usually viewed by them as weak and decadent.

One would think that the ultra-nationalist fascist types would take a strong issue against the idea of Russia's entire civilian economy not only being controlled by mega-corporations, but foreign mega-corporations from Japan that only cares about profit and resource extraction on behalf of themselves, and their own homeland. In other worlds, not Russia. Plus, as we have seen in almost every single historical example, when you have a small political elite (In this case, the members of the Russian Fascist Party's inner circle who approve all the Japanese Zaibatsu's and Keiretsu's investment contracts) with access to lots of money, power, and no public accountability... You can be sure that behind all of their ultra-nationalistic talk, behind close doors there would be lots of 'degeneracy' going on. With the fascists inner circle soon spending their days eating the finest cavier, drinking aged wines, doing drugs with some visiting Japanese corporate executive, while watch the latest smuggled in Hollywood films; while sending out the sons and fathers of Russia out go out to die in unmarked graves in order to protect their motherland from the decadent west, the Germans, and the 'Zionist conspiracy'.

But I suppose that for the sort of people that look at a guy that unironically look at a guy that infamously put up a giant glowing swastika at the roof of his office, and go 'Strong Russian Vozhd!', are not the type that would think things though.

 

[Obern]

You can be sure that behind all of their ultra-nationalistic talk, behind close doors there would be lots of 'degeneracy' going on. With the fascists inner circle soon spending their days eating the finest cavier, drinking aged wines, doing drugs with some visiting Japanese corporate executive, while watch the latest smuggled in Hollywood films; while sending out the sons and fathers of Russia out go out to die in unmarked graves in order to protect their motherland from the decadent west, the Germans, and the 'Zionist conspiracy'.

In the real world, this is common, and modern Russia or Iran are good examples.

But to be honest, while playing for Amur, I did not notice the love of luxury among the leaders of the RFP. Rodzaevsky, Okhotin, the minister of foreign affairs (I don't remember his last name) are rather ascetic. Rodzaevsky needs nothing but vodka and a warm office.
Bolotov, as far as I remember, uses drugs, but remains an ascetic psychopath. I can be mistaken, but it seems that RFP leaders (even Bolotov) really believe in their ideology and stick to it. This is also mentioned in the event when Rodzaevsky communicates with them together.

I would say that RFP leaders are interested in power, not money. A good example is Stalin, he was essentially "God", an absolute tyrant for 1/4 of the Earth, but he lived in a modest office and did not have luxury.
Rodzaevsky in his regime is an absolute dictator for the entire RFP and the population of Russia. He is an ideological fanatic, conducts constant purges, a religious personality. RFP members simply have no chance for luxury and decadence - they will be reported about this and they will be destroyed.
Even the owners of mega-corporations are afraid of Rodazevsky, they will be preoccupied with the implementation of plans and how not to end up in a concentration camp for mistakes. They won't have the time or desire to buy a yacht, a golden toilet, or Hollywood movies. Do you doubt that Okhotin, Bolotov or Rodzaevsky himself will forgive this?

I would compare the Rodzaevsky system with the Stalinist regime, but only with the radical right and with the orthodox religion.

 

[Whiteshore]

A fairly interesting idea I found:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/s2c7pg

I would say that RFP leaders are interested in power, not money. A good example is Stalin, he was essentially "God", an absolute tyrant for 1/4 of the Earth, but he lived in a modest office and did not have luxury.

And was arguably the richest person in modern times with how the USSR's system meant he controlled the entire Soviet economy.

 

[Gukpard]

If you really want a strong, nationalist, fashy-adjacent society, go with Matkovsky, Bunyachenko, or Shafarevich or something.

I wouldn't consider Shaf-are-which Russia strong. They are agrarianists and while there are decent living conditions for ethnic Russians, it lags behind in military and industrial power behind what other unifiers usually get.

 

[Whiteshore]

I wouldn't consider Shaf-are-which Russia strong. They are agrarianists and while there are decent living conditions for ethnic Russians, it lags behind in military and industrial power behind what other unifiers usually get.

Well, a combination of Tsarina Rogneda and Prime Minister Shafarevich from Despotist Kemerovo and Despotist Ust-Syslovsk peacefully reunifying is a terrifying combo.

 

[Gukpard]

Well, a combination of Tsarina Rogneda and Prime Minister Shafarevich from Despotist Kemerovo and Despotist Ust-Syslovsk peacefully reunifying is a terrifying combo.

Shaf would met her and go "Wow, you are even more traditionalist than me even though you are a woman! What a wonderful mix!"