The Dominion and the Union: An Alternate North America

Hmm. This concept of the Patriots being unable to secure the southern states sounds vaguely similar to my own project. I can help if needed. I look forward to seeing what you have (My project is down in my signature).
Wait you have a british america tl pls link i want to see it.

Also southern states loyal nice love these tls.
 
How do you make your maps? I like the style.
Also, why is Rupert's land still British ittl? It seems like that's a lot of disconnected land that wouldn't do the British that much good.
 
How do you make your maps? I like the style.
I have been using this North America map to make all of the maps for the TL thus far.
Dominion_and_Union(BASEMAP).gif

I just drew the coasts and borders over this map, referencing some others for internal borders of Mexico for instance.

Also, why is Rupert's land still British ittl? It seems like that's a lot of disconnected land that wouldn't do the British that much good.
I don't see any reason the British would give Rupert's land to the US. It's governed by the HBC and didn't have any rebellions during the Revolutionary war. It's nor the most valuable land, but there's no reason they would hand it over that I can think of.

would love to see a chapter dealing with the loyalist South.
I plan on writing more about them a couple chapters from now, and they will get more of the limelight when they get more independence in the 1830s.
 
I have been using this North America map to make all of the maps for the TL thus far.
View attachment 708717
I just drew the coasts and borders over this map, referencing some others for internal borders of Mexico for instance.
Thank you, I'm loving this timeline so far. I can't wait to see where it goes. I foresee some problems America's control of New Orleans with the British on their doorstep in an alternate war of 1812.
 
Gotta wonder if this South-less United States will be more or less expansionist than the OTL one. At the very least I assume it would be less resistant to incorporating more catholic majority regions into the Union with Quebec as a state.
 
Gotta wonder if this South-less United States will be more or less expansionist than the OTL one. At the very least I assume it would be less resistant to incorporating more catholic majority regions into the Union with Quebec as a state.
I think the USA will be more expansionist without having to wonder about how to appease the South.
 
I think that they might be less expansionist because there is no desire to expand the slave power.
Maybe, the US expands due to fears of being surrounded on all sides by the British in the north and their Dominion in the south. Going west could be seen as necessary to ensure the survival of the nation.
 
Maybe, the US expands due to fears of being surrounded on all sides by the British in the north and their Dominion in the south. Going west could be seen as necessary to ensure the survival of the nation.
Yeah, ofc they still go west, but I'm not sure what would happen with the Mexican-American war. Texas would probably go completely differently.
 
The Era of John Jay (1804-1808)
A portrait of John Jay.

After the knockout presidency of John Adams, the Federalist party was quick to prepare for another president. Though their popularity was waning even during John Adams’ second term, there was widespread confidence that they could win another presidency. The obvious candidate was Adams’ vice president John Jay, signatory of the Treaty of Paris.

Jay himself was wary of the presidency, never having seriously considered the position for himself. He was preparing to retire from politics before he was approached with the position. With the opportunity at his foot, however, he couldn’t turn it down. At the very least, as president he could smother out the last embers of slavery in the Union.

The issue of slavery, though minor, was complicated. It had been abolished in most of the states, and almost all former slaves were now free. The last bastions of slavery in the US (besides Orleans) were the states of Virginia and Kentucky. The slave population was shrinking even there, but it was slow and many slave owners were unwilling to give up their property. Another strong Federalist in office, it was thought, could finally stomp out the issue.

This would become the platform upon which the Federalists stood for the 1804 presidential election. The Democratic-Republicans again reran Thomas Jefferson with Sam Adams. By this election, Jefferson was tired of the political world, and like Jay was planning on retiring. John Jay ran with prominent Federalist Oliver Ellsworth.

Like the 1800 election, political fighting was grueling. And like the previous elections, the results were very close. For the final time, the Federalists won the election, and John Jay was inaugurated as the third president. After a third presidential defeat, Jefferson retired from national politics, moving back to Virginia and acting as the Virginian state governor until 1808.

Jay was saddled with a Democratic-Republican house, and this would again stymie Federalist domestic policies. During his term, relations with the Caribbean British soured even further, with a number of American ships from New Orleans being captured by the British. The first Canadian independence party was founded during his term. And worst of all, the issue of slavery couldn’t be resolved during his term as he had wished. All these issues were blamed squarely on John Jay and the Federalist party.

Unlike his predecessor, John Jay left office without much fanfare, and has not been remembered all too fondly. Though his presidency was not quite the disaster it was made out to be, a number of factors unfairly blamed on him would end up souring his legacy. After he left office, the Federalists would finally slide into irrelevance and eventual dissolvement in 1822. His lackluster presidency would give the Democratic-Republicans plenty of ammunition to make certain the Federalists would never win another election.
 
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I feel like US expansionism will be more maritime than overland. Western expansion was two fold: expansion of slavery as soil depleted, and for freedman, to prevent the domination of that system. however, that doesn't change the need to grow markets, so i could see a prominent navy and maritime setup
 
I feel like US expansionism will be more maritime than overland. Western expansion was two fold: expansion of slavery as soil depleted, and for freedman, to prevent the domination of that system. however, that doesn't change the need to grow markets, so i could see a prominent navy and maritime setup
I would say big Liberia, but slavery got abolished and there aren't enough freedmen up north to move to a colony.
 
I'd think we'd see a situation where the Americans spread westwards while the British Americans spread southwards to expand their slaving lands, and the Americans will end up with all of Canada + Oregon and the north while British America will have Mexico, Cuba and the other cotton/sugar growing islands (Knights of the golden circle land basically). We may see a partition of Mexico which would be interesting. California may be a highly contested area but I think the Americans will be able to take California while the Brits will take Mexico as compensation.
 
Texas would be a great place to settle freedmen. It would keep it out of British hands, which is important to this USA. I like them getting Louisiana since another timeline has them splitting the purchase with the South.

Good to see Delaware ended slavery, it was cllose OTL, and it makes sense Maryland would also then.

Sam Adams was pretty old by 1804 so it makes sense Jefferson loses, the D-R ticket as a whole is likely seen as worn out. Madison might do well in 1808 though.

With no Embargo Act yet, John Quincy Adams is still a Federalist, though that might not last as he could break with them for other reasons.
 
Texas would be a great place to settle freedmen. It would keep it out of British hands, which is important to this USA.
Would Texas still revolt TTL? One of the major reason they revolted OTL was because of Anglo-Texans wanting to keep their slaves after Mexico abolished slavery. If the American settlers aren't bringing slaves with them, that won't be an issue.
 
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