WI "The Great Escape" more successful (and I don't mean the film).

[merlin]

In the UK Channel 5 have a three part programme about the 'Great Escape' - some fascinating info in it. For example - how co-operative some of the guards could be for important info/documents.

Before 'escape day' one of the senior guards went away on leave, great - but if only his return was delayed, as he straight away instigated a search, and delayed the timetable.
Also, the weather had got colder - it had snowed.

Breakout - frozen ground meant a delay in breaking the final upper crust of the shaft - only to find it was short of the forest.
Then in the midst of this, there was a RAF air raid nearby - result the Camp put out their lights, many in the tunnel new to it panicked in the dark - - the tunnel had electric lighting linked to the camp power supply.
With these delays, and dawn approaching, a guard doing his rounds saw the tunnel exit and sounded the alarm , frantic effort then for prisoners to get back, and destroy fake documents.

But what if things had gone right?
- Guard's return from leave is delayed.
- the tunnel ends in the forest
- no RAF raid..

What could have happened if 200 had escaped rather than 76? Would many more have made a 'home run' or would it just have meant more would have died in retribution??

 

[Quintuplicate]

Germans order all POWs be immediately killed.

 

[merlin]

Himmler had already issued an Order prior to the Escape, for any recaptured POWs to be executed, but I can't see that applying to any and all POWs.

In a situation where the POWs 'throw sixes' the Escape wouldn't be noticed until morning roll call, when big gaps in the assembled line of men would appear, causing panic and consternation in the Germans.
By then the escaping POWs would have had from two to eight hours start.

 

[phx1138]

But what if things had gone right?
- Guard's return from leave is delayed.
- the tunnel ends in the forest
- no RAF raid..

IMO, the second one is key. If they pull that off without doing it buggering them on the other factors (being discovered, snow, so forth), getting 200 out should have been possible.

The number of German troops tied down searching for 200 escapers would have been bloody enormous. I've seen suggestions running one or two divisions worth.

Would more have made it? I do like to think so...but it's an unfortunate fact, most probably wouldn't. Would they have counted it worthwhile, even so? I think so, mostly.

 

[MKD]

What could have happened if 200 had escaped rather than 76? Would many more have made a 'home run' or would it just have meant more would have died in retribution??

To get home you need lots of luck and good language skills. How many of the escapers had those skills?

- the tunnel ends in the forest

From a practical point of view that is the most important aspect.

 

[Garrison]

Germans order all POWs be immediately killed.

Its 1944, if such an order were issued it will see much resistance from officers and men in the Wehrmacht who don't want to find themselves on the gallows post war.

 

[merlin]

Saw the final episode - out of the 76 who escaped nearly fifty were shot - the senior officer left in the camp was informed by the new commandant that 40 had beeen 'shot while trying to escape', 'how many were wounded' he asked in reply 'none'! At least seven were later shot.

To get home you need lots of luck and good language skills. How many of the escapers had those skills?

Quite right, two who made it - to Sweden were Norwegian, which helped; one who spoke Spanish and posed as a Spanish labourer didn't (shot). A third 'home run' took a month to achieve via Gibraltar
When news of the shootings reached London - the Government was furious, and vowed justice - as a result many of the SS/gestapo were hanged after the war.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

My grandfather was in Stalag Luft III at the time of the great escape having been shot down south of Hannover in October 43. He had gone to university in Freiburg before the war and was fluent in German and so was part of the camp counter intelligence team used to spy on the german guards and distract them from the digging. He always said he wasnt the heroic escaping sort and so didnt go out which was a pretty sensible decision in hindsight. He was force marched to Denmark in 45 along with the other prisoners in sub zero conditions until liberated by allied troops. He never ate turnips or swedes ever again after his POW camp diet. Still have some of the paperwork he brought back from the camp including theatre bulletins and the lists of people he was giving french and german classes to. Never quite worked out why he thought these were sensible things to take on a forced march but there you go

 

[merlin]

@Admiral Jellicoe thanks for that personal family story. Because of the Russian advance, at one point they were only 20 miles away - the POWs were forced marched - evacuating the camp heading west - believe they were liberated by US troops, but can't remember if that was en-route or at their destination. As for his 'souvenirs' I don't suppose they weighed much!

 

[Myth]

He was force marched to Denmark in 45 along with the other prisoners in sub zero conditions until liberated by allied troops. He never ate turnips or swedes ever again after his POW camp diet.

To be fair, it's been hard to find Swedes in most grocery stores postwar anyway.