Map Thread XX

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Deleted member 169412

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Is that Australia part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere?
I can't lie, this is where it gets a bit unrealistic.

If Germany wanted to tolerate a Breton state, then it would have set one up after the occupation - heck, it makes sense for Germany to promote Breton and Occitan nationalism in order to keep France divided, and I'm pretty sure Breton nationalists were willing to become collaborationists after the fall of France. There is no way Germany will tolerate a nationalist uprising in one of its vassal states.
Italy and Ustase Croatia losing that badly and Turkey invading Cyprus are things that Berlin won't tolerate, and I don't think that even Il Duce would have screwed things up that badly.
I'm surprised the Reichskommisariats are still a thing given that you'd expect Germany to have incorporated them into the Reich proper by now.
How did a France that lost Brittany (an integral part of France) hold onto Algeria (something the French couldn't keep OTL)?
 
And now 1980. Opinions on plausibility and future?
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Serbia is a tad large and I cannot see them keeping Banat. The Ustashe called themselves Goths and plenty of the German government went along with that idea, perhaps due to all the Austrians in the government who saw the Croats more favorably due to the opposition to Hungarians and Serbs. I don’t see the Germans going out of their way to prop up republics in Central Asia (which I believe already had plenty of sometimes forcibly settlement there by Europeans) as the Nazis would want the Soviets to keep the manpower and resources under Soviet intros, so as to centralize thing and have everyone like cattle. The border you have for Denmark is implausible for a couple reasons. If the Danes kept what they were doing, pretending to have ‘invited’ in the Germans and to provide them loads of food without the Germans needing to occupy it, then it would be bad press to slice off land form a model protectorate. Especially as it is the one border the Germans didn’t make claims on, due to the plebiscite. Which, fun fact, the Prussians were supposed to have down over half a century before, but refused to. Hitler also thought that the land Denmark gained after WWI made it perfectly sized o be a reichsgau. So it would be all or nothing. What is the status of the Faroe Islands? British occupied, independent? I do not mind that Brittany is independent here as another mentioned, as the Germans are clearly taking as much as they can. They actually may have bitten off more than thy could chew, needing to settle and either integrate, deport, or swamp the tens of millions in the Low Countries and France. Do you have the Channel Islands as still being German occupied? If you ever go a map in a different format, without these thick borders, might want to label it as integral German territory, as well as getting a port in Brittany. I know the Germans also wanted to make a huge city in Norway for a hundred thousand people but, again, biting off more than they can chew. How successful would you say the annexations were here? Ahhh, and the Germans would probably want to annex Venice for the history of it, though I am going to assume it is a bit of a buffer zone here. Some ‘misunderstandings’ between the Germans and Italians. Not sure if Hungary wanted all of Slovakia, but maybe it is safest for them like this. If the Turks get Cyprus you might want to consider them also getting the slice of land the Germans occupied on their border IOTL and Rhône’s and the various other islands just off the coast of Turkey, which they didn’t renounce claim of until after WWI. They would be a lot closer, so the Turks would have a more realistic chance of taking it. A little surprised Albania never took land from Greece, or had it given to them, but just getting a populatoin exchange so Greeks and Albanians were each on separate sides of the border might be enough for them.
 
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Continuing my CP victory scenario.

By 1965 the Japanese Empire believed that it was finally at a point where it must invade and permanently cripple China. The Hongxian dynasty over the last 3 decades had slowly been reforming China and making attempts at recentralizing the empire threatening the Japanese Supremacy in Asia

Prelude

Oct. 1st 1964 Chinese nationalists assassinate Emperor Puyi in Manchuria (Japanese Puppet). Beijing denies any involvement in the attack and issues a formal apology and offers reparations which Japan refuses.

October 17th 1964 Japan issues the Thirty Demands to China a list of entirely unreasonable demands from China, including essentially dismantling the central army and handing many cities along the coast to Japan.

October 20th 1964 China accepts only 14 of the demands and Japan refuses arresting the Chinese embassy staff in Tokyo and ordering all Japanese citizens to leave China.

November 1st 1964 Germany, UK, France and the USA issue a joint statement requesting a stop to Japan's actions and offering to mediate.

November 15th 1964 Japan ceases all diplomatic talks with China,

November 24th 1964 Japan secretly opens communique with the Soviets hoping to secure an alliance and convince them from the west. Premier Kuzmin rejects the Japanese offer of alliance but agrees to not support China in any potential war with Japan.

December 7th 1964 A German spy plane notes a massive build up of military and aircraft in Northern Korea.

December 19th 1964 British ships around Hong Kong report a massive movement of Japanese ships to Macau, a Japanese allied city.

January 4th 1965 Japanese military takes control of Guangxi and Guangdong from the local authorities placing them under Marshall law.

Initial Invasion 1965

Feb 2nd 1965
At 7 am on Chinese New Years Chinese border guards along the Manchurian border report a several hundred Japanese planes flying close to the border. Believing this to be a trick to get their military to fire at Japanese planes outside of their air space Beijing orders them not to fire.

At 7:45 AM Japanese planes enter Chinese air space.

8:03 AM Chinese ground forces open fire on the Japanese air group. China rushes to get its air force into the air.

9:00 AM Chinese air force engages Japan 40 miles north of Beijing.

10:00 AM 17 bombers and 200 fighter planes (including 48 Mitsubishi Paektuzan M-324 a state of the art jets) break off from the main force and head to Beijing.

10:42 AM 7 nuclear warheads as well 30,000 pounds of Sarin gas are dropped on Beijing. By the end of the day approximately 2.4 million are dead which would rise to 4 million within a month.

7:00 PM 4 warheads are dropped on Shanghai

This is the first time nuclear warheads are deployed in war.


February 3rd

3 nuclear warheads are dropped on Hangzou

February 5th

Japan achieves air supremacy over Northern China.

Germany declares war on Japan.

Britain, the United States and France declare an embargo on Japan.

February 6th
Ground invasion from Northern and southern China begins.

July

By July the Chinese frontlines have collapsed and with no government the military ceases power moving operations to Nanjing.

1966
China moves capital to Lanzhou.


China manages to somewhat stabilize temporarily. Gains are made in several areas and defenders in Nanjing are able to repel attacks for nearly 3 months.

Japan has used approximately 37 nuclear warheads, over half of its arsenal and with inability to acquire more due to the embargo launches one last nuclear strike against Nanjing before deciding to return to conventional war.

1967

Chinese central authority collapses. Isolated military units attempt to fight off Japan but with no central command Japan is able to execute most of her campaign goals. The Japanese face more resistance behind their own lines than at the front.

Chinese defenses are once again overwhelmed as Japanese attacks cut them off entirely from the sea. Tibet officially shuts down its air space to allied planes fearing reprisal from Japan. However, Germany and the UK continue to send support to China over this air space. Tibet does not retaliate.

Japan occupies Indonesia leading to a declaration of war against them by France and UK.

German fleet withdrawals from the pacific after Indonesia is taken.

1968

What is left of the Chinese army mostly surrenders. Insurgency will continue until the Japanese are forced out of China, but for now the Japanese are victorious.

Aftermath

In total 21 million Chinese people are dead including 4.7 million combatants. 1.6 million Japanese are killed in the war.

With war breaking out in Europe the Soviets and Japan form the Eastern Axis.
 
Well, Nazi Germany is probably headed for a big fall; with how disastrous their economic policies and level of political corruption were I'm surprised they've survived as long as is already.
The lore I have is that they reformed their economy in the 50's in their high of popularity after winning the war and then when Hitler died Goering took over peacefully and did some reforms and then a Deng Xiaoping type figure after him. I'm really trying hard to get them to survive here cause what you said is really true.
 
Is that Australia part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere?

I can't lie, this is where it gets a bit unrealistic.

If Germany wanted to tolerate a Breton state, then it would have set one up after the occupation - heck, it makes sense for Germany to promote Breton and Occitan nationalism in order to keep France divided, and I'm pretty sure Breton nationalists were willing to become collaborationists after the fall of France. There is no way Germany will tolerate a nationalist uprising in one of its vassal states.
Italy and Ustase Croatia losing that badly and Turkey invading Cyprus are things that Berlin won't tolerate, and I don't think that even Il Duce would have screwed things up that badly.
I'm surprised the Reichskommisariats are still a thing given that you'd expect Germany to have incorporated them into the Reich proper by now.
How did a France that lost Brittany (an integral part of France) hold onto Algeria (something the French couldn't keep OTL)?
1. No, they're in the Anglo-American alliance.
2. After the war they wanted to keep France loyal so they kept it together. When Germany invaded Italy France sided with the Italians so Brittany it is.
3. Duce is gone and after him the Italians tried to assert themselves which resulted in a German Invasion. Turkey got Cyprus after that.
4.They are in the process of being settled.
5. The Germans support colonialism whereever they can.
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
And now 1980. Opinions on plausibility and future?
koirqwyj64081.png
How is Serbia so big when the chetniks were pretty ineffective at doing anything productive? I can't imagine the Germany-modeled Croatian regime accepting such a state of affairs, when Serbia is under total, brutal, and crushing Nazi occupation. Millions of Serbs and others were slaughtered by the NDH even with all the internal security problems the NDH had. I imagine in this TL the carnage is even worse.
 
How is Serbia so big when the chetniks were pretty ineffective at doing anything productive? I can't imagine the Germany-modeled Croatian regime accepting such a state of affairs, when Serbia is under total, brutal, and crushing Nazi occupation. Millions of Serbs and others were slaughtered by the NDH even with all the internal security problems the NDH had. I imagine in this TL the carnage is even worse.
The NDH was replaced by a moderate Italian protectorate after the war. When Italy was invaded by Germany Serbia was enlarged at it's expense because Serbia was a German puppet state.
 
Serbia is a tad large and I cannot see them keeping Banat. The Ustashe called themselves Goths and plenty of the German government went along with that idea, perhaps due to all the Austrians in the government who saw the Croats more favorably due to the opposition to Hungarians and Serbs. I don’t see the Germans going out of their way to prop up republics in Central Asia (which I believe already had plenty of sometimes forcibly settlement there by Europeans) as the Nazis would want the Soviets to keep the manpower and resources under Soviet intros, so as to centralize thing and have everyone like cattle. The border you have for Denmark is implausible for a couple reasons. If the Danes kept what they were doing, pretending to have ‘invited’ in the Germans and to provide them loads of food without the Germans needing to occupy it, then it would be bad press to slice off land form a model protectorate. Especially as it is the one border the Germans didn’t make claims on, due to the plebiscite. Which, fun fact, the Prussians were supposed to have down over half a century before, but refused to. Hitler also thought that the land Denmark gained after WWI made it perfectly sized o be a reichsgau. So it would be all or nothing. What is the status of the Faroe Islands? British occupied, independent? I do not mind that Brittany is independent here as another mentioned, as the Germans are clearly taking as much as they can. They actually may have bitten off more than thy could chew, needing to settle and either integrate, deport, or swamp the tens of millions in the Low Countries and France. Do you have the Channel Islands as still being German occupied? If you ever go a map in a different format, without these thick borders, might want to label it as integral German territory, as well as getting a port in Brittany. I know the Germans also wanted to make a huge city in Norway for a hundred thousand people but, again, biting off more than they can chew. How successful would you say the annexations were here? Ahhh, and the Germans would probably want to annex Venice for the history of it, though I am going to assume it is a bit of a buffer zone here. Some ‘misunderstandings’ between the Germans and Italians. Not sure if Hungary wanted all of Slovakia, but maybe it is safest for them like this. If the Turks get Cyprus you might want to consider them also getting the slice of land the Germans occupied on their border IOTL and Rhône’s and the various other islands just off the coast of Turkey, which they didn’t renounce claim of until after WWI. They would be a lot closer, so the Turks would have a more realistic chance of taking it. A little surprised Albania never took land from Greece, or had it given to them, but just getting a populatoin exchange so Greeks and Albanians were each on separate sides of the border might be enough for them.
Ooookkk. So...
1. Serbia got larger after the German invasion of Italy. Italy is a vichy-style puppet.
2. The Central Asians are the "Soviet warlords" that are internationally recognized. Germans have nothing to do with them.
3. You're right for Denmark, but I can't stand Big Germany without Schleswig lol
4. Faroes are a British protectorate.
5. Channel Islands are German. Might remake the map someday, once I get the basemap I requested in the map request thread.
6. TheGermans are overextended a bit but holding on.
7.From Wikipedia:
Several factions within the Nazi government also intended to extend the area of the two operational zones even further to the detriment of Italian territory. Joseph Goebbels wrote in his diary that the only "logical" border would be one that included the territories of the former Habsburg Kingdom of Lombardy–Venetia, expressing his hopes that Hitler's renewed friendship with Benito Mussolini would not deter him from this step:

We must not only get back South Tyrol, but I envisage the boundary line drawn south of Venice. Whatever was once an Austrian possession we must get back into our own hands. The Italians by their infidelity and treachery have lost any claim to a national state of the modern type.
He eventually managed to convince Hitler that this course of action should be undertaken, who agreed that Venice should be bound to the Reich in "some sort of loose confederation."
8. Hungary invaded Slovakia in the chaos of the Italian-German war to regain some honor after they lost North Transylvania after a war with Romania.
9. Yeah Turkey would have probably taken the Dodecanese. As for the strip of land in Greece by the time of the Italian-German war it was part of Bulgaria and they didn't participate. The Turks have ambitions for the future there tho.
10. You're right, Albania should have probably taken Chameria. Though the Italian I think might have decided on less annexation to keep Greece loyal as the Agean Islands were already a lot for them.
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
The NDH was replaced by a moderate Italian protectorate after the war. When Italy was invaded by Germany Serbia was enlarged at it's expense because Serbia was a German puppet state.
That doesn't make sense though.... Why would the Nazis enlarge Serbia when they have the Croatian government willing and ready to exist, and with proven genocidal lunacy? It's not like the Italian protectorate of Croatia would have had any special affinity for Italy and needed to be "punished". Croatia in and around the WWII era liked Germany more than Italy because Germany was farther away and so interfered less, really helped with the fight against partisans and chetniks, and did not claim or take any of Croatia's land (whereas Italy took the best parts of the beautiful Adriatic coast). Dalmatia was given back to Croatia, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same with Bosnia.
 
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