True. But I can see them forming strong economic ties, and possibly even an alliance later on.
Southern-Less USA 2.0: A Nation Torn Apart
- Thread starter PGSBHurricane
- Start date
Do you have a source for the bit about the state militia of Vermont during the War of 1812 - I've been doing research on Vermont for a side gig of mine, and from all of my research, most Vermont soldiers during the War of 1812 served in the New York theater and Vermont wasn't occupied.
Now, there WAS Pro-British sentiment in Vermont during the Revolutionary War - there was quite the scandal where several prominent Vermonters either with or without the consent of the government of the Vermont Republic, to throw their support to the British when the war was going badly. The real issue was that Vermont wasn't just attempting to secure it's independence from Britain - as much support as there was for this - but also from New York: and, really, they were willing to do whatever it took to make sure that Vermont didn't remain under the Knickerbockers' thumb. In fact, even once independence was secured, it took a while for Vermont to to officially enter the Union, and only did so after Hamilton was able to negotiate a mutually beneficial end to the landclaims between Vermont and New York.
No one is returning to the British Empire and the odds of anyone becoming a monarchy is slim.
Can Georgia really last as its own country at this time? I understood its population was rather low at this point and its claimed territory has quite a few indigenous peoples who will not just let them expand casually westward. Though if Georgia stays its course as independent resultant in strong native states actually emerging on the gulf coast, that would be quite interesting.
I wonder how the USA breaking up will affect ideologies in Europe as the revolutionary wars presumably are in swing.
I'm also hoping Washington lives as his sudden death seems a recurring component for divided America TLs.
I wonder how the USA breaking up will affect ideologies in Europe as the revolutionary wars presumably are in swing.
I'm also hoping Washington lives as his sudden death seems a recurring component for divided America TLs.
Eventually, there will be blocs and coalitions forming so true independence won’t last that long. There are a couple reasons why Georgia is staying afloat right now: 1) It’s alliance with South Carolina and 2) It voted with the larger states because it was one of the fastest growing states population-wise, undoubtedly a large portion of that being slaves.
As far as the French Revolution in Europe goes, I have to look into more information about it but the next chapter should be about that. With George Washington surviving, it really depends on whether or not his health still deteriorates at the same time as OTL, but we’ll see.
I could see Georgia and South Carolina eventually combine due to mutual interests, however.
That's a highly probably route that I plan on taking at this point.
Expect a new update relatively soon. This will start to explore the world of a fragmented America and the consequences of it abroad.
I am a bit hung up over what to do so I am leaving this to a poll to decide:
strawpoll.com
Should the French Revolution Happen? - Online Poll - StrawPoll
What's your opinion? Vote now: Yes, exactly like OTL, Yes, but not exactly like OTL, No, but allow elements of OTL French Revolution, No, avert the French Revolution...
strawpoll.com
So the consensus seems to be for the French Revolution to proceed in a similar as OTL, but not exactly a carbon copy. I will figure out how to map that out soon.
There's all sorts of ways the French Revolution could have gone. Good luck.
With the USA not fully uniting and on the path to breaking apart completely, I'm not sure how the French Revolution would be affected. That's why I created the poll and said I would figure out how to map it soon. And thanks for the good luck.
Could it be that they go for the constitutional monarchy option like they originally planned for?
Maybe. But in any case, the focus would be on greater centralization to prevent potentially rebellious parts of France from breaking off and to hold onto its prestige.
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Also, the reason why New Hampshire is with the Union is that it's mostly dependent on trade from other New England states, particularly the dominant Massachusetts. I considered having New Hampshire join up with Vermont but ultimately it wouldn't be able to survive on its own as an independent state, given its small size and population. Hence why Vermont joined the Union IOTL. Also, pressure from Massachusetts (which then still had Maine) and the rest of New England would eventually make them succumb and join the Union. Rhode Island, on the other hand, didn't care about the Constitution even with the New Jersey Plan being incorporated into the Connecticut Compromise so I could see it still eventually joining albeit somewhat even later and with more coaxing. I just wanted to clear this up for you guys.
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If anyone has any ideas about how they want this French Revolution to proceed, feel free to PM me because honestly, I'm stumped.
The next installment should be ready soon. Shout out to @Meshakhad for helping me come up with some ideas for this.
Chapter Three: Rebuilding, Reforming, and Reevaluation in France and Britain
Chapter Three: Rebuilding, Reforming, and Reevaluation in France and Britain
After the American Revolution, Europe was not in the best shape it could have been. Great Britain was humiliated by its North American colonies and lost a major footprint in the New World. France was broke from financing the United States and helping them fight against the British for their independence. The Dutch were humiliated by the British in the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War and their decline as a global power had begun in earnest. Of these major European powers, France had seen the greatest changes in the years following the Treaty of Paris. Between 1756 and 1789, France had built up so much debt by its participation in the Seven Years’ War and American Revolutionary War that the debt totaled up to 4 billion livres. Almost a third of this came from the American Revolution alone, with it creating a large rentier class who lived on the interest, primarily members of the French nobility or commercial classes. This helped fuel a crisis primarily caused by structural deficiencies. The Crown controlled spending but taxes could only be approved by the Estates-General, which had not met since 1614, and revenue was largely controlled by regional parlements. By 1785, the government wanted to increase taxes to help cover the struggling payments but the parlements refused to collect them. Later, the Assembly of Notables also refused to approve new taxes, arguing this could only be done by the Estates-General, which hadn’t met in almost two centuries.
In 1788, attempts to resolve the budget resulted in runaway inflation and worsening of the plight of farmers and urban poor. At the time, the French population had outpaced its food supply and this fueled a famine that caused widespread starvation in the countryside that winter. In January 1789, King Louis XVI issued an edict that summoned the Estates-General for the first time since 1614. Elections for the assembly were held that spring. There were three Estates in the Estates-General. The first Estate with 303 delegates represented the 100,000 clergymen who owned 10% of the land and collected its own taxes from peasants in addition to those from the Nobles. The second Estate of 282 delegates represented the 400,000 nobles who owned 25 percent of the land and was arguably the richest and most powerful. The Third Estate represented the remaining 95% of France, with representation consisting of 578 men (most of whom were educated lawyers, local officials, tradesmen, industrialists, or landowners). Landless peasants and the urban poor were not invited. As it began on May 5, most complaints were about taxes, with the people at odds with the King and especially aristocrats who could excuse themselves from taxes. Also, even though the Third Estate had the most people in it, they could be outvoted 2-1 and effectively had little power over the other two Estates. As rocky of a start the meeting got off to, things would only get rockier from there.
The Estates-General reached an impasse fairly quickly. The Second Estate pushed for three meetings in three separate locations while the Third Estate tried but failed to keep all three Estates together for discussion. On June 17, they created a National Assembly among themselves and invited the other Estates to join, with the First Estate oddly being sympathetic. Being pragmatic, they paid attention to the four American states who walked out of the constitutional convention and feared a similar separation that could destroy the order of the Church in France if they rejected it. A half sided with the Second Estate while the other half sided with the Third, creating an impasse on both ends. In resistance, The King resolved to annul the decrees of the assembly from the advice of his privy council and demanded the restoration of the Estates-General and separation of the orders. On June 23, King Louis XVI announced a constitution that affirmed the right of separate deliberation for the three orders that formed three legislative chambers. This failed because of the constant 1-1 vote with the First Estate not coming to a consensus. This deadlock lasted another three months until August 26 when a Constitution that satisfied none of the chambers was created. All three Estates went with it because they were content with none of the others being satisfied. The Constitution was approved in 1791 and the King would announce his abdication by 1792 after which serfdom would be fully abolished.
Britain was a different story altogether. Unlike France, most of the authority within the British government lay with Parliament following the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Its own problems began with spending so much money that there were almost 10 million pounds in yearly interest. Trade was interrupted and land prices plummeted, and Taxes were raised as a result. This was temporary, as trade with the US reached pre-war levels by 1785 and it had doubled with Europe by 1792. Meanwhile, the British were afraid of revolutions in Ireland so they allowed the Irish to trade with British colonies, freely export wool, and allow Catholics to hold office, overall reducing Irish dependence on Britain. After the US Constitutional Convention, Parliament began paying more attention to the “rotten boroughs” to ensure more proper regional representation and keep them in line. Rotten boroughs could elect a representative to Parliament with few votes, often decided by a single individual or family. Two prominent political societies, the London Corresponding Society and the Society of the Friends of the People (both forming in 1792) called for such Parliamentary reform. After years of resistance by British Prime Minister William Pitt, limited reform bills were successfully passed in 1795 and 1799, reducing the number of rotten boroughs. In 1793 and 1794, the British continued taking advantage of free ports set up in the smaller of the former thirteen colonies and paid attention to the west for any potential stakes out there.
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Did someone kidnap the King, because it said "his abduction". Do you mean abdication?
Great chapter, though.
Great chapter, though.