The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

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brooklyn99

Banned
chankljp said:
Over in England, with the exception of Chesterton, all the other members of the collab government view themselves as the only sane people around, and that if HMMLR wins, Germany will raze England to the ground, hence all of their oppression against their own people... Yet as we can see, a Free England under neither Jellicoe nor Wilson will result in a German invasion. In fact, an victorious collab government might even make things worst, since OFN will be much less willing to send over aid in the even of Operation Sealion II.
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Would they really?

One confusing thing about Goering's path (which is probably going to factor into the overhauling rework planned in V&J) is how the Militarists run on a platform advocating continuous conquest across the world and once they win the GCW, the OFN (and the CPS) don't take the initiative on what is clearly a huge incoming threat in meaningfully responding to Goering's wars of aggression unless a member of their alliance becomes next on the chopping block. Until then, they do little more than diplomatically coping and seething that just spams events on the Goering player's screen. That is of course a pretty illogical way to deal with an nation that is blatantly vying for world domination with little restraints when it would be obviously better to not wait for them come to strike you first and take the fight directly to the Militarists as forcefully as you can.

Consider how OTL saw the US delivered massive amounts of aid to Stalin's USSR via the lend-lease despite the massive ideological gap between the two, surely it would only be reasonable that they would go further than just undertake similar aid efforts for Collab England but also immediately throw aside any and all reservations, quickly bury the hatchet with them and put boots on the ground in England like the first time around back in the WW2. If only because of the clear danger presented by the German Reich's return to unhinged aggressive expansionism . The Collabs can at least mend fences with the OFN on the basis of historical ties, them having at least the basis of a democratic system and a shared disdain for Nazi domination. This is not taking into account the fact that all the available Collab pathways can actually join the OFN as well.
 
Gukpard

Gukpard

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
NORMAL PEOPLE AND THOSE WHO PUT PINEAPPLE IN PIZZAS!

I'm playing as Mac, the millian

unknown.png

AS YOU CAN SEE, HE'S A CONDEM!
YES!
A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT

So he gonna distribute free bowler hats to stimulate the british cultural heritage
"Those are taxpayer paid bowler hats, you imbecile!" thatcherists will say, ignore them

*SLAM HANDS ON MY TABLE*

IN FACT WE NEED TO BE EVEN MORE RADICAL! WE NEED A SUBMOD THAT REPLACES EVERY SINGLE CONSERVATIVE POLITICIAN IN TNO BRITAIN WITH BOWLER HATS!

AND THIS MOD NEEDS TO REWRITE EVERY SINGLE EVENT SO WHEN SOMEONE TALKS WITH A CONSERVATIVE, THE SCENE WILL SHOW A HAT TALKING TO A HAT!

"Proceed" said the blue bowler hat, waiting for the brown bowler hat to continue, then the brown bowler hat said "I need you to do the stuff about Michael, and Michael is always walking with the baby blue bowler hat!"

Like this
 
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Earthallias

Earthallias

brooklyn99 said:
Would they really?

One confusing thing about Goering's path (which is probably going to factor into the overhauling rework planned in V&J) is how the Militarists run on a platform advocating continuous conquest across the world and once they win the GCW, the OFN (and the CPS) don't take the initiative on what is clearly a huge incoming threat in meaningfully responding to Goering's wars of aggression unless a member of their alliance becomes next on the chopping block. Until then, they do little more than diplomatically coping and seething that just spams events on the Goering player's screen. That is of course a pretty illogical way to deal with an nation that is blatantly vying for world domination with little restraints when it would be obviously better to not wait for them come to strike you first and take the fight directly to the Militarists as forcefully as you can.

Consider how OTL saw the US delivered massive amounts of aid to Stalin's USSR via the lend-lease despite the massive ideological gap between the two, surely it would only be reasonable that they would go further than just undertake similar aid efforts for Collab England but also immediately throw aside any and all reservations, quickly bury the hatchet with them and put boots on the ground in England like the first time around back in the WW2. If only because of the clear danger presented by the German Reich's return to unhinged aggressive expansionism . The Collabs can at least mend fences with the OFN on the basis of historical ties, them having at least the basis of a democratic system and a shared disdain for Nazi domination. This is not taking into account the fact that all the available Collab pathways can actually join the OFN as well.
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That's what I figured. I don't know at point it would happen but I'd imagine that goring would drive many countries into the arms of the OFN or the Sphere.
 

xie323

After the drama that certain figures in online leftist circles have pushed forward over whether leftists should adapt American hypernationalism, but adapt it to leftist paint in order to "win over the masses" that I'm not going to go over comprehensively due to no politics rule, I have a greater appreciation for how Natsoc Komi is written on a narrative level.

Personally, I think Ivan Serov is up there as one of the more frightening and disturbing paths for the mod alongside "sane" ubernationalists like Shaf and Matkovsky and "sane" fascists like Speer.

Now the circles pushing forward these ideas of a socialism fully subsumed by ultranationalism are thankfully a marginal circle with an always online personality and no organizing experience, but Ivan Serov represents a dark thought experiment. Namely, what would happen if that tendency somehow broke out of its' fringe circles and started to contaminate the left? Eventually of course, this tendency brings fourth a figure to the forefront that glorifies or make excuses for the imperialistic past, that view the left as doomed to failure because its' not ultranationalistic enough and paint the masses as inherently tied to reactionary ideas and the only way for socialists to reach them is if they adapt hyperreactionary authoritarian populism and take uncomfortable(at best) stances on positions like the question of minorities or the "Jewish" question.

Serov overall represents not North Korea as it had been claimed, but a dark road suggested time and time again in various opportunistic or outright reactionary hypernationalist manifestations(latest being the topic of "Socialism with American Characteristics" implications is which best saved for chat discussion) that the left should never go down, in this case it would be the ultimate surrendering of leftism to hypernationalism and outright fascistic beliefs, and the victory of the far-right in spirit, inhabiting a hollow shell of what used to be "leftism".
 
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Yankeewolf

Yankeewolf

xie323 said:
After the drama that certain figures in online leftist circles have pushed forward over whether leftists should adapt American hypernationalism, but adapt it to leftist paint in order to "win over the masses" that I'm not going to go over comprehensively due to no politics rule, I have a greater appreciation for how Natsoc Komi is written on a narrative level.

Personally, I think Ivan Serov is up there as one of the more frightening and disturbing paths for the mod alongside "sane" ubernationalists like Shaf and Matkovsky and "sane" fascists like Speer.

Now the circles pushing forward these ideas of a socialism fully subsumed by ultranationalism are thankfully a marginal circle with an always online personality and no organizing experience, but Ivan Serov represents a dark thought experiment. Namely, what would happen if that tendency somehow broke out of its' fringe circles and started to contaminate the left? Eventually of course, this tendency brings fourth a figure to the forefront that glorifies or make excuses for the imperialistic past, that view the left as doomed to failure because its' not ultranationalistic enough and paint the masses as inherently tied to reactionary ideas and the only way for socialists to reach them is if they adapt hyperreactionary authoritarian populism and take uncomfortable(at best) stances on positions like the question of minorities or the "Jewish" question.

Serov overall represents not North Korea as it had been claimed, but a dark road suggested time and time again in various opportunistic or outright reactionary hypernationalist manifestations(latest being the topic of "Socialism with American Characteristics" implications is which best saved for chat discussion) that the left should never go down, in this case it would be the ultimate surrendering of leftism to hypernationalism and outright fascistic beliefs, and the victory of the far-right in spirit, inhabiting a hollow shell of what used to be "leftism".
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The reason is that its an unsuccessful tactic is that people know when they're being lied to their face. This is just akin to a debate amongst wolves on how best to kill sheep. Is it through taking on the fleece of a sheep, baring your fangs just enough to lure them into your lair, or should be it out in the open with blood dripping your jaw.

Sheep may be dumb, but they know what's a sheep and what's a wolf.

And besides, this is a completely political non sequitur.


Talk about something else. Like Germany Schools of Foreign Policy.


https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/p70mm7

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/pqtrv5
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/q44o01
 
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xie323

Intresting observations. I can see for the reformists a divide between the G4 which may want genuine international cooperation even if they still want a german hegemon vs the speerite nazis that want to use soft power and diplomacy to impose a continied german hegemon
 
the Imperium of Canada

the Imperium of Canada

Yankeewolf said:
The reason is that its an unsuccessful tactic is that people know when they're being lied to their face. This is just akin to a debate amongst wolves on how best to kill sheep. Is it through taking on the fleece of a sheep, baring your fangs just enough to lure them into your lair, or should be it out in the open with blood dripping your jaw.

Sheep may be dumb, but they know what's a sheep and what's a wolf.

And besides, this is a completely political non sequitur.


Talk about something else. Like Germany Schools of Foreign Policy.


https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/p70mm7


https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/pqtrv5

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/q44o01
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"Neoliberal Nazism"
 

Deleted member 107125

chankljp said:
Well, we do have something similar in OTL, in the form of Vietnam. Going all the way back to the 1920s when Vietnam was under French colonial rule, and China was a total mess stuck in the warlord era after having been utterly humiliated by every colonial power on Earth, he had already viewed the Chinese, not the French as the bigger threat to Vietnam's independence in the long run. Under the reasoning that the French, and later the Americans, do not belong in Asia, and as such will alway have to leave Vietnam eventually... While for China, the Vietnamese have been fighting against them for literally thousands of years going all the way back to the Han dynasty with the Trung sisters. As such, if China managed to truly conquer Vietnam, the Chinese will never leave, and the Vietnamese people will end up getting assimilated into the Chinese nation for good. Hence the reason why the Vietnamese are so pro-US as a counter to the Chinese, despite the entire... You know, Vietnam War business, with Agent Orange and napalm being dropped all over the country.

In the TNO world, the Ukrainian Culturalists might view Germany and Russia in a similar light. In thinking that Russia shattered nation FOR NOW, and the Germany's under the Nazis might be genociding the Ukrainian people. But the Nazi empire is a house of cards that will fall eventually. Compared to a Russia that managed to reunify under a competent leader, in which case, even a wholesome and benevolent government will inevitably be motivated by irredentism, seeking to make Ukraine part of 'Greater Russia', in which case they will be reduced to just another minority instead of having their own nation.

Granted, considering that Stalin's Holodomor never took place in the TNO world, the logic behind this kind of 'I prefer to get raped and abused by the Germans for a few years than live under Russian rule for the rest of my life' (A Ho Chi Mihn reference) to be a serious case of having messed up priorities. Plus, after living under Nazi rule for decades, I am sure that a big part of their anti-Russian views will be motivated by racism, with stupid ideas like 'Unlike Ukrainians, Czechs, Poles, and Belarusians, Russians are not real Slavs, but were instead Asiatic Mongols'.
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I thought of Vietnam the moment I read about this, lol.
 
Gukpard

Gukpard

RiverDelta said:
What's the truck supposed to be?
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Basically there is this meme that says "I would go to the school if X was the teacher, X was the uniform, X was the bus and X was the book", and people do variations with their own preferences

This someone made one with the Passionary, the Komi right wing
 
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