Great update. I'm curious if the "going rate" that the new chiflik owners received a 50% premium on was the discount rate they paid the outgoing Muslim landlords or an actual fair price. I'm just wondering how sweet a deal it turned out to be for them and how pissed I should be on behalf of the poor Greek farmers.
 
The interesting thing here is those former landlords that have their lands sold to the state now have available capital to invest somewhere else in the economy. All of this capital could be pushed to industry and railroads or the merchant marine which can push those sectors forward. Also the state must have a lot of debt due to all this buyback campaign which could lead to some economic austerity down the line as the Revolution debts where under control but not completely paid back so with the extra burden things could go out of control when another international recession.
 
Hello earl marshall, i hope you are doing okay.
These are shitty times and take all the time you need!
Thank you for your kind words Sky Alkemade, I'm doing alright all things considered.

I know I've been pretty unreliable when it comes to updating this timeline in recent months, and while I'd like to say I'll do better in the future, I know that probably won't be the case. Between work, a lot of traveling for work, my other interests and hobbies, and my social life; I'm not able to stick to a set schedule right now. I will continue updating this timeline when I can, but it isn't going to be on a regular basis sadly, not right now anyway.
 
sad 😞.
What i wanted to ask is: are there any plans for the capadocian greeks itl?
I know that's not the news a lot of you wanted, but I don't want to keep making promises only to disappoint you all with delay after delay.

Regarding the Cappadocian Greeks, I don't really have plans for them in the immediate future, but in say 30 to 40 years ITTL, I may have something in mind.
 
I know that's not the news a lot of you wanted, but I don't want to keep making promises only to disappoint you all with delay after delay.

Regarding the Cappadocian Greeks, I don't really have plans for them in the immediate future, but in say 30 to 40 years ITTL, I may have something in mind.
@Earl Marshal take all the time you need, we'll be here when you are ready!
 
Thank you for your kind words Sky Alkemade, I'm doing alright all things considered.

I know I've been pretty unreliable when it comes to updating this timeline in recent months, and while I'd like to say I'll do better in the future, I know that probably won't be the case. Between work, a lot of traveling for work, my other interests and hobbies, and my social life; I'm not able to stick to a set schedule right now. I will continue updating this timeline when I can, but it isn't going to be on a regular basis sadly, not right now anyway.
Dude, that's fine man. Take your time! We'll be waiting for you when you do post a chapter, so absolutely no pressure whatsoever!
 
You know your supporters are here whenever you're ready and we'll wait until then.

I do hope however that we'll see updates on the Greeks within the Ottoman Empire sooner than 30-40 years down the timeline. Maybe the things won't turn out much different, but there's been enough changes outside the empire that Turks and Greeks alike must have some different attitudes about the Greeks within the empire compared to OTL.
 
Everybody else has already said it for the most part but seriously, take your time. You put out some of the highest quality material on the site. When it gets here, it gets here.
 
So just some speculation for us viewers in the meantime.
What does everyone thing will be the future for greece?
In the short term its going to be far more prosperous, but i am afraid its going to paint a bigger target on its back when(assumingly) they seize european turkey
 
So just some speculation for us viewers in the meantime.
What does everyone thing will be the future for greece?
In the short term its going to be far more prosperous, but i am afraid its going to paint a bigger target on its back when(assumingly) they seize european turkey
A bigger target but also a much bigger threat. Prosperity brings power as well after all. Already Greece has a lot of advantages when compared to OTL when it comes to land, population, and wealth. I’d argue that by the point the Balkan nations have the ability to start eying each other up for conquest, Bulgaria is the most like target like in OTL. It claimed the most disputed land and had the messiest demographics. Even with a Greece that has a more Northern border, that fact doesn’t change unless in has like all of Albania, Northern Macedonia, and Norther Thrace. And even if I expect Greece to expand in all three of those areas to an extent, I don’t see them taking enough to turn Serbia and Montenegro against them.

Beyond that we get into world war territory although I’m not sure what direction that might go in with all of the changes that have been made. I’m not even sure who the Greeks are closest to at the moment after the understandable fight with the UK over smuggling and the fear of Russia pushing its direct influence further into the Balkans. There is likely going to be even more mid level players in that war though. Bigger Greece and Bigger Netherlands are both serious mid level players. Hungary is along with whatever the Hapsburgs manage to cling to by then. Possibly multiple Italian powers. Potential a free Egypt and/or Persia. I expect it to be a lot uglier because of that.
 
A bigger target but also a much bigger threat. Prosperity brings power as well after all. Already Greece has a lot of advantages when compared to OTL when it comes to land, population, and wealth. I’d argue that by the point the Balkan nations have the ability to start eying each other up for conquest, Bulgaria is the most like target like in OTL. It claimed the most disputed land and had the messiest demographics. Even with a Greece that has a more Northern border, that fact doesn’t change unless in has like all of Albania, Northern Macedonia, and Norther Thrace. And even if I expect Greece to expand in all three of those areas to an extent, I don’t see them taking enough to turn Serbia and Montenegro against them.

Beyond that we get into world war territory although I’m not sure what direction that might go in with all of the changes that have been made. I’m not even sure who the Greeks are closest to at the moment after the understandable fight with the UK over smuggling and the fear of Russia pushing its direct influence further into the Balkans. There is likely going to be even more mid level players in that war though. Bigger Greece and Bigger Netherlands are both serious mid level players. Hungary is along with whatever the Hapsburgs manage to cling to by then. Possibly multiple Italian powers. Potential a free Egypt and/or Persia. I expect it to be a lot uglier because of that.

Honestly, I suspect that Greece may grow closer to Napoleon II's France. As you've stated, they have had understandable tensions with Britain and Russia and though Greece can't really afford to alienate either of those powers, it does mean that they may begin courting France. First, France hasn't ever (and has never been in a position) to offend Greece, and by growing closer it make be enough to remind both Britain and Russia that they are independent players and can't be taken for granted or advantage of.
 
Greece is definitely going to be much more prepared for a Balkan Wars scenario if it occurs in this case, but there are of course no guarantees. A stronger Greece might find itself in a firmer alliance in a few decades so that an alternate Balkan War actually kicks off an alternate World War.

I think it's important to keep in mind how much global politics is going to shape the Balkans moving forward. Greece has territorial disputes with basically all of its neighbors even those that aren't independent currently. Their allies are all going to be found farther afield. But they are also limited in who they can be close to on the world stage. They can't antagonize the UK without a strong naval partner. They can't antagonize Russia without someone who can bring an army to their defense or tie up the bulk of Russian troops.
 
Ever since the Greek Revolution, greek policy has been to be on the good side of the dominant naval power in the Mediterranean. The only hiccup to this policy, were Otto's antics during the Crimean War. Otto was a problematic figure, since there is a good possibility he was possibly in the spectrum of autism and was a terrible ruler. Even if Greece gets a ruler like that, in TTL the greek political parties have more political power, they are better organized compared to OTL and there is a better parliamentary tradition compared to OTL.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that Greece will always follow blindly british policy. However, the policy makers will be mindful not to cross a line that will alienate Britain. There is also the butterfly that Greece has a greater steamship merchant fleet and a small but prosperous industry. TTL's greek economy will be even more dependent on british goodwill.

Greek nationalism did not envision annexing anything on the north of the Monastir- Strumica line. So there are very specific limits on the balkan expansion of Greece even in the best case possible - basically this timeline is said case.
 
Ever since the Greek Revolution, greek policy has been to be on the good side of the dominant naval power in the Mediterranean. The only hiccup to this policy, were Otto's antics during the Crimean War. Otto was a problematic figure, since there is a good possibility he was possibly in the spectrum of autism and was a terrible ruler. Even if Greece gets a ruler like that, in TTL the greek political parties have more political power, they are better organized compared to OTL and there is a better parliamentary tradition compared to OTL.
And Constantine's national schism antics arguably but even he understood that anything but neutrality was death.

Greek nationalism did not envision annexing anything on the north of the Monastir- Strumica line. So there are very specific limits on the balkan expansion of Greece even in the best case possible - basically this timeline is said case.
Close but not the best case scenario. One day I might go down to writing the best case scenario... or maybe the worst case scenario. :p
 
And Constantine's national schism antics arguably but even he understood that anything but neutrality was death.

And Constantine was known as "Brick Wall Pasha" - since he was thick as brick.

Close but not the best case scenario. One day I might go down to writing the best case scenario... or maybe the worst case scenario. :p
That is very intriguing. Can you sum it up in terms of geography?

The worst case senario I have in mind includes only Thessaly and Epirus.
 
And Constantine's national schism antics arguably but even he understood that anything but neutrality was death.


Close but not the best case scenario. One day I might go down to writing the best case scenario... or maybe the worst case scenario. :p
Man "Of Lost Monkeys and broken Vehicles" is such a good TL i would love to see a best case Greece Tl by you, maybe even a late Byzantine TL,even tho its difficult to even find a POD that ist allready used yet... (I personally thougt about Charles of Anjou dying early and Michael Palailogos actualy being able to defend and expand the empire instead of bankrupting it against fights against the Normans)
 
Man "Of Lost Monkeys and broken Vehicles" is such a good TL i would love to see a best case Greece Tl by you, maybe even a late Byzantine TL,even tho its difficult to even find a POD that ist allready used yet... (I personally thougt about Charles of Anjou dying early and Michael Palailogos actualy being able to defend and expand the empire instead of bankrupting it against fights against the Normans)
Thanks a lot. I did a late Byzantine TL back way when with the Philosopher Emperor. @Basileus444 has done the same POD far better than me... in my defence I was doing it two decades earlier. :)
 
Top