Empire of New Castille

However, the Philippines in this timeline is mostly mixed bag regards to its hispanization. OTL Philippine culture(less hispanized) is still retained in most islands due to corruption (very few spanish native speakers, dont love bullfights). In Borneo it became more closer to medieval Spain, with Inquisition happening there.

OTL Spanish names were forced upon Filipinos in OTL but not TTL.

Chinese migration is greater TTL and multiple cultures are tolerated, intermix, compared to under OTL, Spanish and clerical system is enforced for another 70 years from POD.

Philippine imperial government is anti-clerical.

Buildings are more Portuguese(pombaline) and Chinese than Spanish.

The closest comparison I can make for Hispanics in OTL is the Chilean Army who had a Prussian tradition. In large that Prussian army to Luzon, Bohol and Cebu and you got the Philippine Hispanics.
Another question, since Borneo is undergoing Inquisition, is Mindanao also going through this as well? Outside of Moro Sultanates or even in them?

So in keeping the butterflies, Borneo will be Catholicized in the long run. Is there a chance of Brunei, Sulu and Maguindanao elite being converted to Catholics? (a chance for Brunei Catholic Sultan? Maybe???? seems too weird haha). In the updates, I remembered that Dayak/Malaay nobles are given land as long as they swear fealty to the emperor and converted to Catholics.
 
Another question, since Borneo is undergoing Inquisition, is Mindanao also going through this as well? Outside of Moro Sultanates or even in them?

So in keeping the butterflies, Borneo will be Catholicized in the long run. Is there a chance of Brunei, Sulu and Maguindanao elite being converted to Catholics? (a chance for Brunei Catholic Sultan? Maybe???? seems too weird haha). In the updates, I remembered that Dayak/Malaay nobles are given land as long as they swear fealty to the emperor and converted to Catholics.
Northern Mindanao is in the same boat as visayas. otl filipino management and corruption. retention of otl filipino culture, flourishing local native language. subanon and manobo languages gets wanked in norther mindanao.

moro sultanates are independent. most of mindanao, as of the mindanao update is pagan, Carolian confederation (otl lumads in wanked form)

brunei retains independence under philippine protection. brunei is islam. parts of sabah is still de jure sulu.

most of borneo is Philippine de jure but de facto controlled by friars with a military order. it is a gigantic version of templar controlled malta.

Andres looks the other way in Borneo as long as a certain amount of money goes to Manila. the same way happens with visayas and Mindanao
 
This is a little nitpick but I'll think it's a little nice if you can add dates (even just the year) to your threadmarks/update titles? I kept losing what year the update is currently in (like the previous update of entertainment & demographics in 1843, next update "manifest destiny" is 1846.)
 
This is a little nitpick but I'll think it's a little nice if you can add dates (even just the year) to your threadmarks/update titles? I kept losing what year the update is currently in (like the previous update of entertainment & demographics in 1843, next update "manifest destiny" is 1846.)
add chapter number and date.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
23. British Bulldog (1846-1848)
British Bulldog

The United States Army initially had 10,000 men. The U.S. by this time had dropped militia for war purposes. They relied on volunteers early in the war.

The Mexican army started initially with 20,000 men. The Mexican republic’s finances were in good shape. For years, Mexico hired foreign advisors to reform the Mexican army, trained a better officer corps, upgraded the army’s equipment. Tactics and doctrine were also improved. While Philippines recruited Prussian advisors, the Mexicans hired French advisors. Mexico also had their own multiple arsenals that can produce 200,000 modern rifles per annum. They were not as productive as those in Britain or in Manila but had achieved what Spain was producing during the Napoleonic wars, Peninsula war. With the start of British-U.S. war, Mexico also received financial and material aid from the British. Mexico drafted all able-bodied men. Mexico also recruited female soldiers, Soldaderas.

General Taylor’s army had swelled to 10,000. U.S. initially sieged San Antonio only to find a Mexican army arriving before they can take San Antonio. The Mexican army that arrived was slightly larger than the U.S. Army.

Battle was fierce as both armies were well trained and equipped. Neither had gained the upper hand but both had received equal number of casualties.

Then, another larger Mexican army arrived. These were armies that were freed up due to British naval presence and aid.

U.S Army retreated before being surrounded by two Mexican armies.

U.S. tried to delay the Mexican armies on their retreat back to Sabine River. The U.S. Army meant for Vera Cruz did not push thru due to British blockade.

In Santa Fe, the U.S. army also retreated as they were beaten by a larger Mexican army. The battle of Apache Canyon and harassment of Native American Indians gave sufficient time for Mexicans to gather in Santa Fe while whittling down Kearny’s army. Kearny's army retreated back to Kansas.

Mexicans in California also contributed to the war as Mexican troops tried to push north to Oregon territory to help the British.

mexicanwar.jpg

When the war with United States and Mexico began, Philippine representatives in Mexico and United States did not immediately react to the situation. Philippine representatives verbally promised neutrality to hawkish, expansionist US politicians in the Pacific in a case of a Mexican war. With no declaration of war from Philippines even months after the start of Mexican war, the U.S. felt the Philippine promises were true. But Philippine representatives had orders to wait for British response. After the recognition of hostilities by Britain and United States, the Philippine ambassador sent its formal declaration of war to the United States. Some of the U.S. politicians felt betrayed, all of them that favored war with Britain.

The U.S. newspapers did not see the Philippines in a good light and took jabs at the emperor. The cartoon in the United States newspapers had Queen Victoria holding a leash on a bulldog with Emperor Andes head imposed on the bulldog. Americans called Andres a British pet, a loyal pet and barking whenever, wherever the master commands.

But the pet has a dangerous bite.

Unknown at the time, the Emperor in Manila using the emperor’s eyes already had an extensive espionage network in the United States by 1846. Andres felt threatened by the size United States economy, demographics, influence in the Pacific and the United States Navy patrolling the Pacific for years despite having no ports in the Pacific. He feared future U.S. expansions in Philippine sphere of influence. Philippines believes the Pacific belongs to them and only to be shared with the British.

These espionage networks started with informants, eventually influencing the US elections, US Congress votes, lobbying for politicians that benefits the interests of the Philippines. Philippine interests required United states not having access to the Pacific to the point that Philippines supported US politicians who favored war with Britain. From a U.S. perspective, Philippines donated discretely for politicians who aggressively pushed for US expansion even if it costed a war with the British.

By the time US Pacific Squadron arrive in the Mexican Pacific, the US Navy still unaware of the hostilities with Britain had started. The US Pacific Squadron was deployed before Britain entered the war. The Squadron took a while to arrive in the Pacific passing thru Cape Horn. The US Navy initially engaged the Philippine San Francisco Naval Squadron only to see the Royal Navy engaging them as well. US Naval information was also 6 years late by 1846. The Philippine squadron was reinforced with faster ships, more sloops to complement the Royal navy in the Pacific. The Allies chose to fight the US Navy near Acapulco rather than near Valparaiso, Chile like in the War of 1812.

All of the US Pacific Squadron ships were eventually captured or sunk.

In the Western Pacific, the United States did not fare any better. The Royal Navy and Philippine Navy chased down any ship with a US flag. US trade Ships in China remained in port after the initially reports of boarding by the Royal and Philippine Navies.

Philippine Imperial Galleons joined the fray to chase slower ships. Philippine Clippers were armed to chase down faster US Clipper ships.

northamericanwar5.png

Combined Mexican and British forces in Oregon pushed the United States outside of Oregon Territory.

The British plans succeeded using Red River colony as the focal point for British forces that pushed into the lightly colonized Great Plains.

One of the Mexican armies in San Antonio pushed North combined with the army of Santa Fe took Fort Leavenworth.

Another Mexican army sieged New Orleans with the British.

U.S. Congress after receiving reports of U.S. defeat in Mexico and Mexican draft, started their own conscription. The draft was not well received in certain areas. Riots had to be put down by federal authorities while several forts and towns in Great Plains were lost, New Orleans under siege. Mexico also had a head start on the draft and was recruiting female soldiers. US Industry and manpower start to roll but as more and more British forces pour in North America, US forces had to split their forces and defend multiple invaders.

The British blockade was also taking its toll on the US economy. With the prospect of fighting a long-protracted war with both Mexico and Britain inside the borders of United States, Buchanan sues for peace.

northamercia3.png

The treaty of London was signed by four countries, Britain, Mexico, USA and the Philippines.

The British takes Oregon territory, large swathes of Great Plains lightly populated by the United States. Britain also takes parts of Maine. Mexico was given parts of Great Plains. Mexico wanted more from the United States including reparations. With U.S. threatening to continue the war, Britain negotiates with Mexico.

Britain and Mexico sign a separate defensive treaty in North America in a case of another war with the United States. Britain promises to invest and help Mexico build a canal in Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Philippine was invited to invest on the canal. The canal will be under the control of Britain in perpetuity.

With British assurance, Mexico cancels the treaty with the Philippines expelling their base from San Francisco, including their California extraction rights.

Philippines accepts Mexican decision. They already have extracted a certain amount of Mexican gold and kept confiscated American trade goods as more than sufficient payment. Philippines will also save money (basing San Francisco) since Britain will now act as the protector of Mexico in the Pacific. Mexican California has grown significantly that towns in California can easily replenish, repair Philippine merchant ships without Philippines spending an upkeep for a station.
 
British Bulldog

The United States Army initially had 10,000 men. The U.S. by this time had dropped militia for war purposes. They relied on volunteers early in the war.

The Mexican army started initially with 20,000 men. The Mexican republic’s finances were in good shape. For years, Mexico hired foreign advisors to reform the Mexican army, trained a better officer corps, upgraded the army’s equipment. Tactics and doctrine were also improved. While Philippines recruited Prussian advisors, the Mexicans hired French advisors. Mexico also had their own multiple arsenals that can produce 200,000 modern rifles per annum. They were not as productive as those in Britain or in Manila but had achieved what Spain was producing during the Napoleonic wars, Peninsula war. With the start of British-U.S. war, Mexico also received financial and material aid from the British. Mexico drafted all able-bodied men. Mexico also recruited female soldiers, Soldaderas.

General Taylor’s army had swelled to 10,000. U.S. initially sieged San Antonio only to find a Mexican army arriving before they can take San Antonio. The Mexican army that arrived was slightly larger than the U.S. Army.

Battle was fierce as both armies were well trained and equipped. Neither had gained the upper hand but both had received equal number of casualties.

Then, another larger Mexican army arrived. These were armies that were freed up due to British naval presence and aid.

U.S Army retreated before being surrounded by two Mexican armies.

U.S. tried to delay the Mexican armies on their retreat back to Sabine River. The U.S. Army meant for Vera Cruz did not push thru due to British blockade.

In Santa Fe, the U.S. army also retreated as they were beaten by a larger Mexican army. The battle of Apache Canyon and harassment of Native American Indians gave sufficient time for Mexicans to gather in Santa Fe while whittling down Kearny’s army. Kearny's army retreated back to Kansas.

Mexicans in California also contributed to the war as Mexican troops tried to push north to Oregon territory to help the British.


When the war with United States and Mexico began, Philippine representatives in Mexico and United States did not immediately react to the situation. Philippine representatives verbally promised neutrality to hawkish, expansionist US politicians in the Pacific in a case of a Mexican war. With no declaration of war from Philippines even months after the start of Mexican war, the U.S. felt the Philippine promises were true. But Philippine representatives had orders to wait for British response. After the recognition of hostilities by Britain and United States, the Philippine ambassador sent its formal declaration of war to the United States. Some of the U.S. politicians felt betrayed, all of them that favored war with Britain.

The U.S. newspapers did not see the Philippines in a good light and took jabs at the emperor. The cartoon in the United States newspapers had Queen Victoria holding a leash on a bulldog with Emperor Andes head imposed on the bulldog. Americans called Andres a British pet, a loyal pet and barking whenever, wherever the master commands.

But the pet has a dangerous bite.

Unknown at the time, the Emperor in Manila using the emperor’s eyes already had an extensive espionage network in the United States by 1846. Andres felt threatened by the size United States economy, demographics, influence in the Pacific and the United States Navy patrolling the Pacific for years despite having no ports in the Pacific. He feared future U.S. expansions in Philippine sphere of influence. Philippines believes the Pacific belongs to them and only to be shared with the British.

These espionage networks started with informants, eventually influencing the US elections, US Congress votes, lobbying for politicians that benefits the interests of the Philippines. Philippine interests required United states not having access to the Pacific to the point that Philippines supported US politicians who favored war with Britain. From a U.S. perspective, Philippines donated discretely for politicians who aggressively pushed for US expansion even if it costed a war with the British.

By the time US Pacific Squadron arrive in the Mexican Pacific, the US Navy still unaware of the hostilities with Britain had started. The US Pacific Squadron was deployed before Britain entered the war. The Squadron took a while to arrive in the Pacific passing thru Cape Horn. The US Navy initially engaged the Philippine San Francisco Naval Squadron only to see the Royal Navy engaging them as well. US Naval information was also 6 years late by 1846. The Philippine squadron was reinforced with faster ships, more sloops to complement the Royal navy in the Pacific. The Allies chose to fight the US Navy near Acapulco rather than near Valparaiso, Chile like in the War of 1812.

All of the US Pacific Squadron ships were eventually captured or sunk.

In the Western Pacific, the United States did not fare any better. The Royal Navy and Philippine Navy chased down any ship with a US flag. US trade Ships in China remained in port after the initially reports of boarding by the Royal and Philippine Navies.

Philippine Imperial Galleons joined the fray to chase slower ships. Philippine Clippers were armed to chase down faster US Clipper ships.


Combined Mexican and British forces in Oregon pushed the United States outside of Oregon Territory.

The British plans succeeded using Red River colony as the focal point for British forces that pushed into the lightly colonized Great Plains.

One of the Mexican armies in San Antonio pushed North combined with the army of Santa Fe took Fort Leavenworth.

Another Mexican army sieged New Orleans with the British.

U.S. Congress after receiving reports of U.S. defeat in Mexico and Mexican draft, started their own conscription. The draft was not well received in certain areas. Riots had to be put down by federal authorities while several forts and towns in Great Plains were lost, New Orleans under siege. Mexico also had a head start on the draft and was recruiting female soldiers. US Industry and manpower start to roll but as more and more British forces pour in North America, US forces had to split their forces and defend multiple invaders.

The British blockade was also taking its toll on the US economy. With the prospect of fighting a long-protracted war with both Mexico and Britain inside the borders of United States, Buchanan sues for peace.


The treaty of London was signed by four countries, Britain, Mexico, USA and the Philippines.

The British takes Oregon territory, large swathes of Great Plains lightly populated by the United States. Britain also takes parts of Maine. Mexico was given parts of Great Plains. Mexico wanted more from the United States including reparations. With U.S. threatening to continue the war, Britain negotiates with Mexico.

Britain and Mexico sign a separate defensive treaty in North America in a case of another war with the United States. Britain promises to invest and help Mexico build a canal in Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Philippine was invited to invest on the canal. The canal will be under the control of Britain in perpetuity.

With British assurance, Mexico cancels the treaty with the Philippines expelling their base from San Francisco, including their California extraction rights.

Philippines accepts Mexican decision. They already have extracted a certain amount of Mexican gold and kept confiscated American trade goods as more than sufficient payment. Philippines will also save money (basing San Francisco) since Britain will now act as the protector of Mexico in the Pacific. Mexican California has grown significantly that towns in California can easily replenish, repair Philippine merchant ships without Philippines spending an upkeep for a station.
Mexico doesnt want teritory from the US iotl, they want money, and they can't populate that kind of a big area
 
Last edited:
Mexico doesnt want teritory from the US iotl, they want money, and they can't populate that kind of a big area
I'm happy with the gains of Mex here (more land!) but I have to agree with slime-blob here, do they really need more land? (they already had lots of land before this, esp that Tejas/Texas and Cali is still theirs hehe Why don't they just give British more land south?

More butterflies! wow, the war really kept them on the east coast this time and this war is going to haunt them in the century. American civil war, if it still happens, may favor the successful secession of the South, closing America's rise to hyperpower of the OTL for a long long time (maybe even never). Mexico is now the one on the path of hyperpower in this ATL (unless unstable politics kicks them again).

Wasn't Santa Anna a president and his government, a republic? Would this spill ideas of republicanism and liberalism into Phil especially post Andres? Since Mexico so far is quite successful with this government (Phil may seek to emulate them) but Phil is also influenced by Britian, a constitutional monarchy. Wonder what will Philippine take in the future hehe

Sad that Philippines got its extraction rights taken away. But at least they are not paying for the upkeep of the San Francisco base. It is already expensive crossing the Pacific and maintaining a naval base in Cali. (wondering though how will they recuperate the loss of the extraction rights? if this was such a profitable venture, why would Philippines allow Mex this? the base I understand but I don't think Phil will give up the rights that easily. Couldn't there be a deal like Philippines turns over their Cali mines to Mexico but keeps the share of the profits in a smaller percentage?)

1848, huh....what the next update about? if you don't mind me asking hehehe
 
Last edited:
Mexico doesnt want teritory from the US iotl, they want money, and they can't populate that kind of a big area

I'm happy with the gains of Mex here (more land!) but I have to agree with slime-blob here, do they really need more land? (they already had lots of land before this, esp that Tejas/Texas and Cali is still theirs hehe Why don't they just give British more land south?

More butterflies! wow, the war really kept them on the east coast this time and this war is going to haunt them in the century. American civil war, if it still happens, may favor the successful secession of the South, closing America's rise to hyperpower of the OTL for a long long time (maybe even never). Mexico is now the one on the path of hyperpower in this ATL (unless unstable politics kicks them again).

Wasn't Santa Anna a president and his government, a republic? Would this spill ideas of republicanism and liberalism into Phil especially post Andres? Since Mexico so far is quite successful with this government (Phil may seek to emulate them) but Phil is also influenced by Britian, a constitutional monarchy. Wonder what will Philippine take in the future hehe

Sad that Philippines got its extraction rights taken away. But at least they are not paying for the upkeep of the San Francisco base. It is already expensive crossing the Pacific and maintaining a naval base in Cali. (wondering though how will they recuperate the loss of the extraction rights? if this was such a profitable venture, why would Philippines allow Mex this? the base I understand but I don't think Phil will give up the rights that easily. Couldn't there be a deal like Philippines turns over their Cali mines to Mexico but keeps the share of the profits in a smaller percentage?)

1848, huh....what the next update about? if you don't mind me asking hehehe

Mexico did want reparations. But U.S. bugged out threatened to continuation of war.

Mexico being hyperpower, not so much. U.S. is still the great power ahead of Mexico. They just made mistakes and fought multiple countries at the same time. Had this war continued it will be like US Civil war OTL mobilization and deaths except Britain is in Mexico side. US and Mexico TTL 1846 had roughly near population of Union vs CSA OTL 1860.

I already used my screw U.S., Buchanan card. U.S. got the eastern United States, a large demographic, well managed country. So U.S. will still be a great power, just the maximum potential isn't hyper power.

For populating that, Mexico can. Even more so if they can get migrants e.g. Irish Migrants, or since this 1848, everybody in Europe fleeing the Spring of Nations. Or even the famines happening even earlier. Since this is a better managed Mexico, migrant attraction and education as Mexican.

You don't need millions to fill in those areas. For example, Colorado had 35k in 1860, Oklahoma 250k in 1890, Kansas 100k in 1860. Those are the population in OTL. Colorado and Kansas are more than a decade away to replicate that with Oklahoma population like 50 years to do. I believe that point here is U.S. population isn't as large yet in 1848 at this part of the world that Mexicans can outpopulate them in 10 to 50 years time.

For the extraction rights, that was connected to the base. Andres negotiated that in 1836 one tied to the other.

Spreading of influence between Philippines and Latin America will be explained next update.

There will be many American settlers unhappy with this treaty. Mexico and UK need to remain vigilant.

With Mexico, the policy for more than decade is to expel them, disallow them to enter. So short term Mexico might have that problem. Britain is the one who might have the problem long run. But then again, The places Britain got were lightly populated even in OTL.

North Dakota 7k in 1870, South Dakota 5k in 1860, Wyoming 9k in 1860, Montana in 20k 1870, 15k in 1870. Places like Minnesota had only 6,000 during 1850 OTL, Nebraksa in 1860 had 28k population.

All of these so should be lower in 1848 TTL.

Had this war happened 10 years later or 20 years later, there would be a lot of more U.S. citizens in the captured territories.
 
Spreading of influence between Philippines and Latin America will be explained next update.

A bit excited for that ehehe, would love to know more Philippine's other relations in Latin America other than Mex hehe (would this cover Philippines's Galleon Trade outside of Mexico?)

I was asking about the next update cuz its 1848 hahaha (is this where Andres gets paranoid or not about the liberal revolutions overthrowing monarchies upon reaching his shores?)
 
A bit excited for that ehehe, would love to know more Philippine's other relations in Latin America other than Mex hehe (would this cover Philippines's Galleon Trade outside of Mexico?)

I was asking about the next update cuz its 1848 hahaha (is this where Andres gets paranoid or not about the liberal revolutions overthrowing monarchies upon reaching his shores?)

Philippines is a bit far from Europe but still got access to Europe thru trade with Britain.

European revolutions were caused by a combination of mismanagement and famines. None yet exist in Luzon or Cebu. Those who will know revolts from Europe are people who can read or travel to those areas, most of them are going to be Andresians.

Liberal attempts happened in the Philippines TTL during the Palmero Conspiracy between 1833-1835. They were jailed and properties confiscated. They are probably dead by now or part of the prison labor camps since that is what the TTL Philippines does, instead of executing or expelling, put you in forced labor.

However, I will have an update on what kind of issue Philippines will have. I believe couple of updates from now since I will deal with South America and then Europe first.
 
Philippines is a bit far from Europe but still got access to Europe thru trade with Britain.

European revolutions were caused by a combination of mismanagement and famines. None yet exist in Luzon or Cebu. Those who will know revolts from Europe are people who can read or travel to those areas, most of them are going to be Andresians.

Liberal attempts happened in the Philippines TTL during the Palmero Conspiracy between 1833-1835. They were jailed and properties confiscated. They are probably dead by now or part of the prison labor camps since that is what the TTL Philippines does, instead of executing or expelling, put you in forced labor.

However, I will have an update on what kind of issue Philippines will have. I believe couple of updates from now since I will deal with South America and then Europe first.
True true, i think one advantage Philippines (being an island/archipelago nation) is that it is always semi-isolated from the continental happenings because of seas and oceans so ideas/culture tend to disperse slowly to them. They can afford to build up their government/culture/policies without much interference from others as long as their home waters are secure (this esp true pre-globalization era which is a century from this update)

This is the reason why i love the focus that Andres (despite being being an army) gave to nascent shipbuilding industry and navy. Philippines had always been a nation of the sea even before colonial era (boats and interisland trade with boats, foreign and domestic, had always been its thing.)

If shipbuilding industry was advanced, we could protect our waters and allow our ships to project power and influence coastal towns/nations (ala British)

Suez canal was not yet built by the time of this update and so they have travel the long way
 
True true, i think one advantage Philippines (being an island/archipelago nation) is that it is always semi-isolated from the continental happenings because of seas and oceans so ideas/culture tend to disperse slowly to them. They can afford to build up their government/culture/policies without much interference from others as long as their home waters are secure (this esp true pre-globalization era which is a century from this update)

This is the reason why i love the focus that Andres (despite being being an army) gave to nascent shipbuilding industry and navy. Philippines had always been a nation of the sea even before colonial era (boats and interisland trade with boats, foreign and domestic, had always been its thing.)

If shipbuilding industry was advanced, we could protect our waters and allow our ships to project power and influence coastal towns/nations (ala British)

Suez canal was not yet built by the time of this update and so they have travel the long way

The way I built ATL Philippines is improve whatever is available and left by Spain.

That is Shipbuilding and trade is the major industry. Higher literacy rates in 1820 than 1890s. That kind of population was bound to industrialize. Shipbuilding and trade were the major industries of Netherlands during their golden age.

Then, added what the revolutionaries like Andres hate from Spain, pro-Church, inequality.

Philippines has not transitioned yet to agriculture, cash crop nation that you know in 1890s OTL. Even the sugar plantation growth in Negros province happened in 1856 OTL brought in by the British Nicholas Loney.

Cultural development is more of my invention. But I imagined what an army man would do given the power to develop into a wanked Philippines. Culturally, I had to push out the weakness of some Philippine culture among Andresians, but that would mean also taking out the good parts of Philippines which includes hospitability, friendliness.

Novales timeline really gave me a lot of flexibility since the only great power than can actually project power in the region is Britain compared to 1898 wherein you got so many players already on the board. You are correct there is a lot of time for Philippines develop that I dont have to rush things in development. Even then, the British are very far away, that as long as you are aligned with them in Asia, they will approve of what you do, letting Philippines develop.
 
About the shipbuilding part, i know Philippines had the headstart compared to to its neighbors in building ships of the line (we do have all the materials needed for them) pre industrialization but how about industrialization and post -industrialization era? (Coal oil tin etc), do we the have resources to build them? (Most importantly are they enough? To protect Philippines’ interests esp. Pacific mare nostrum that Phili is developing)?

Cause i imagine Phil getting complacent with the wooden ships of line (cuz they are easier to build) thus lagging behind naval tech (though due to nation’s lifeblood being shipbuilding & trades, that is less likely.....but they have to expand if they wanna get more resources if current lands with resources are not enough)
 
About the shipbuilding part, i know Philippines had the headstart compared to to its neighbors in building ships of the line (we do have all the materials needed for them) pre industrialization but how about industrialization and post -industrialization era? (Coal oil tin etc), do we the have resources to build them? (Most importantly are they enough? To protect Philippines’ interests esp. Pacific mare nostrum that Phili is developing)?

Cause i imagine Phil getting complacent with the wooden ships of line (cuz they are easier to build) thus lagging behind naval tech (though due to nation’s lifeblood being shipbuilding & trades, that is less likely.....but they have to expand if they wanna get more resources if current lands with resources are not enough)

Coal is available everywhere including Borneo. The present known coal sources are in Cebu. Hence, why I placed Cebu as the most advanced, first railways in the Philippines.

First question comes to mind is if that all coal we know now can be surveyed and found within 19th century tech. OTL present day most Philippine coal comes from Semirara Island. During Philippine commonwealth period the US and Philippines were knowledgeable about them. Not sure about if this can be surveyed and found mid or late 19th century since that island lacks large population like Cebu. Other islands with coal sources can be found, places like Zamboanga, Iloilo, Negros, Samar, Mindoro which have people compared to Semirara Island but those areas are mismanaged and focused on cash crop, backward as OTL. Luzon got coal so it is possible to wank them due to higher population, available of more educated populace. Those in Southern Mindanao are beyond reach of TTL Philippines and would put them on the list to next to impossible to survey due to lack of Philippine control.

Here is the list of coal reserves in OTL : https://www.globalmethane.org/documents/Toolsres_coal_overview_ch26.pdf

The other question how much industrialization Philippines can do which correlates to how much coal Philippines needs to use. But if you are asking can Philippines outproduce Germany or Britain using coal sources inside the Philippines including those we know by hindsight, no. That point being the level of industry cannot be as coal dependent as Britain(less coal powerplants, lower steel production), nor should one expect to outproduce Britain in Coal production area which includes steel production.

Once you start accounting for Borneo, there should be enough available coal assuming the Borneans cooperate both the natives and the Filipino migrants living in borneo found the coal sources available for the tech.

Philippines got more Oil in Borneo though compared to what Japan and Britain's got in their home islands.

But at this point in time there is still a lack of need of coal that Cebu alone can provide for Manila, Cavite and Cebu needs, nor are there coal powerplants, mass steel production in 1848.
 
True, true, that’s why i was asking about the resources...so for the meantime, Phil has the coal he needs presently. But once steamships/ironclads become the norm, Phil’s shipbuilding industry will have to act fast lest they end up like OTL Spain’s in 1898.

So, Phil’s not gonna outproduce Britain/Germany here in shipbuilding during the industrialization era. So, there’s a chance that Phil’s shipbuilding industry in 1850s -1900s will decrease (they can buy cheaper ironclads/destroyers from Britain rather than make their own) while they transfer to more profitable ventures (cash crops?) so more or less ending up like OTL Phil in 1898 (weak shipbuilding, stronger agriculture favoring cash crops)

Unless Calamba guy does something about the naval tech.... (u mentioned about spearheading tech?)
 
Last edited:
True, true, that’s why i was asking about the resources...so for the meantime, Phil has the coal he needs presently. But once steamships/ironclads become the norm, Phil’s shipbuilding industry will have to act fast lest they end up like OTL Spain’s in 1898.

So, Phil’s not gonna outproduce Britain/Germany here in shipbuilding during the industrialization era. So, there’s a chance that Phil’s shipbuilding industry in 1850s -1900s will decrease (they can buy cheaper ironclads/destroyers from Britain rather than make their own) while they transfer to more profitable ventures (cash crops?) so more or less ending up like OTL Phil in 1898 (weak shipbuilding, stronger agriculture favoring cash crops)

Unless Calamba guy does something about the naval tech.... (u mentioned about spearheading tech?)

Resources are just one aspect of the scenario since you can import resources(but you are at the mercy of the current naval superpower). Manpower, funding, technology, human development another aspect of production. These are skills needed to produce these ships and enough manpower to fill in the production lines, money to make the ships.

Smaller nations like Netherlands and Belgium can still be profitable(and with Belgiums case industrialized) even agriculture nations like Argentina in OTL. Most of it is due to resource management. I have already developed the Andresians as very frugal and efficient so expect Philippines to be very cost efficient on many things, no wasted spending, high return of investment government spending.

Coal is still available in the Philippines and Borneo, I plan Philippines build steamships and steel, so dont you worry. Just dont expect Philippines producing the same number of naval ships as Britain in WW1 or USA in WW2. Even now(1848) using wood, Philippines hasn't really produced 200 Ship of the lines for the navy like Britain, more like 6.
 
True, true, that’s why i was asking about the resources...so for the meantime, Phil has the coal he needs presently. But once steamships/ironclads become the norm, Phil’s shipbuilding industry will have to act fast lest they end up like OTL Spain’s in 1898.

So, Phil’s not gonna outproduce Britain/Germany here in shipbuilding during the industrialization era. So, there’s a chance that Phil’s shipbuilding industry in 1850s -1900s will decrease (they can buy cheaper ironclads/destroyers from Britain rather than make their own) while they transfer to more profitable ventures (cash crops?)
Resources are just one aspect of the scenario since you can import resources(but you are at the mercy of the current naval superpower). Manpower, funding, technology, human development another aspect of production. These are skills needed to produce these ships and enough manpower to fill in the production lines, money to make the ships.

Smaller nations like Netherlands and Belgium can still be profitable(and with Belgiums case industrialized) even agriculture nations like Argentina in OTL. Most of it is due to resource management. I have already developed the Andresians as very frugal and efficient so expect Philippines to be very cost efficient on many things, no wasted spending, high return of investment government spending.

Coal is still available in the Philippines and Borneo, I plan Philippines build steamships and steel, so dont you worry. Just dont expect Philippines producing the same number of naval ships as Britain in WW1 or USA in WW2. Even now(1848) using wood, Philippines hasn't really produced 200 Ship of the lines for the navy like Britain, more like 6.
Aaawww hehe noted! To be truthful, with all the goodie butterflies Phil’s had , i was half-expecting them to be dominant naval power by ww2 era (with their focus shipbuilding, large merchant fleet (you need protection/good navy to protect those fleet), more efficient culture traits haha)
 
24. The Silver must Flow 1824-1849
24. The Silver must Flow 1824-1849

Mexican experience of American colonists was not good. They had ample experience of U.S. colonists and their potential to cause problems after the revolt in Texas.

After the North American war ended, U.S. Citizens were expelled. If they chose to stay, they had to renounce U.S. Citizenship and apply for Mexican citizenship. Those that stayed were usually first-generation European migrants who had no long history of affinity to the United States. Americans who refuse to moved were forced by the Mexican army and herded back to the United States.

170px-Joseph_Smith_first_vision_stained_glass.jpg

John Smith’s first vision, founder of Mormonism

The Mormons were a religious group formed in 1830. They were pushed away by United Stated started moving west from Illinois were allowed to resettle newly acquired territories by Mexico. A war was fought even by Mormons and Missouri in 1838 which expelled the Mormons from Missouri. Initially these Mormons arrived in Salt Lake Valley during the North American war but will be allowed to practice their beliefs in Mexico. Mexico allowed this religious group due to their lack of loyalty to the United States and propaganda for Europe. Mexico does not allow slavery and is more tolerant to other religions than the United States. The U.S. allowed slavery and discriminates other religions. Mexico made sure to spread this information in Europe.

Veterans of the North American war were given large plots of lands acquired from the United States. Around 150,000 Mexican army veterans of mostly poor background resettled in the areas.

Catholic migrants from Europe flooded in as famine, revolts in Ireland, Spain, Italy and most Europe occurred. Their initial goal was to get to California but some of them settled on the way from Texas to California or were given a large piece arable land to settle in the newly acquired territories.

mormon corridor.png

Mormon Corridor mid 19th century Mexico (OTL Kansas, Colorado, Utah)

Philippine loss of San Francisco naval base after the North American war, the squadron was reassigned to Callao district in Lima. The Andean Union welcomed the presence of the Philippine navy. Philippines was pivotal in creating Andean Union. During the War of Confederation, Philippine government and merchants aided the Peru-Bolivian Confederation and help defeat Peruvian rebels and exiles, forcing Argentina and Chile into peace in 1838. Philippine representatives supported Andres de Santa Cruz in his authoritarian union, with the people of North, South Peru and Bolivia influenced in supporting and “voting” for a unified state. The Andeans have taken some influence from the Philippines, an autocrat meritocratic system, but instead of the leader being declared by the army like in the Philippines, voted by the people.

The revival of Mexican-Philippine trade, Mexico kept investing, improved mining and continued to provide 60% of the new world silver. The Andes provided a large part of the remaining new world silver. Not stopping in Acapulco in 1824, Philippine merchant ships also went to Central and South America in the Pacific. Philippine merchants replicated the Spanish silver trade port of calls in Panama, Gran Colombia and back then Lima, Republic of Peru.

The policy of Philippines dealing with her Central and South American nations - the silver must flow.

Any stop of the trade may result into Philippine interference. This became more prominent as more and more Philippine merchant ships arrived in the 1830s. Philippine representatives brokered peace deals among Latin American nations that offered them significant trade deals, influenced stability at the South American Pacific.

Battles, wars were shelved or forced into the table by Philippine representatives.

The Philippine Navy was larger than any navy in Central and South America by 1840s. All of their navies (including the Brazilian Navy) had to combine in order to have a fighting chance versus the whole Philippine navy. Even then, the Imperial galleons were more than the Philippine navy at this part of the world. The combined Mexican, Central and South American ship of the lines were fewer than the total Imperial Galleons this side of the Pacific.

If the British can force the Philippines or influence to do their bidding, the Philippines does this with nations with weaker navies.

Imperial galleons are as armed as British first rates, manned by former navy sailors, accompanied by fast armed clipper ships. With the transfer of the San Francisco squadron to Lima, there was even more reason not to anger the Sealion.

Spanish American revolts influenced Andres Novales revolt in the Philippines. However, the influence was never one way. The revival of trade between former colonies of Spain in Asia and the Americas, news spread of an enlightened absolute monarch in the Philippines. This leader does not spend money on elaborate things but spend a lot to provide for his people; News of a stable, orderly, literate, wealthy, developing Spanish speaking nation. Policies of the Philippines that were successful influenced a lot of South American policies. Stories of the conquest of Borneo, the battles in China and defeat of United States spread in these Spanish speaking nations.

With Spain always embroiled in a civil war and shrinking navy, these Hispanic nations looked for inspiration. Mexico’s defeat of United States, Mexico was favored by more democratic Latin American nations and nations with ambitions to have a large army. Philippine meritocratic policies and practice were also favored by Latin American autocrats or ambitious nations who want a strong navy. There was a template of Hispanic democracy and Hispanic autocracy - Mexican idealism and creativity versus Philippine pragmatism and efficiency.

Mexico and Philippines also competed for influence. Most of Central America was influenced by Mexico while those that had a large silver to trade with Philippines and port, Philippines had more influence.

Andresian virtues were being emulated by a section of Hispanics in Latin America - Discipline, love of law and order, punctuality. Even British tourists attest to Andresian efficiency. “The trains in Cebu runs on time. Customs man is quick, Hotels and water works are clean.”

Philippine culture of more equal female treatment starts to creep in these influenced nations. Anti-clerical nature of the Philippines also influenced some Latin American policies. Latin American governments debated if they were to implement a more Philippine style public education including agriculture and more military work ethic among their pupils. Philippine policy of open migration for the Chinese and frequency of Philippine ships that can carry Chinese migrants increased the Chinese migration in the Latin Pacific, from Mexican California down to the Andean union.

Large Tax funded public education became a common sight among Hispanic nations in the Pacific. Philippines even encouraged the Latin Americans to put a large amount in education starting in 1840s, discourage funding in the navy, to prevent any challenge of Philippine supremacy in the seas within the Hispanic world.

South America with tags.png

Independent South American Nations

The U.S. loss during the North American war, the United States was looking for more friendly nations. The U.S. was surrounded by British North America and Mexico. By 1849, U.S. influence and investments increased in Gran Colombia. Slowly, Gran Colombia gravitated away from the influence of the Philippines and Mexico.
 
Top