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Empire of New Castille
- Thread starter Namayan
- Start date
I was about to post a few minutes ago but cannot add threadmark. Thought was only me. seems to be site wide problem. Will post the update, will add threadmark later
22. Buchanan’s Gambit 1846
Buchanan’s Gambit
In Texas, the Mexican army tried to stop General Zachary Taylor’s army at the Battle of Sabine River. The Mexicans dealt more casualties vs the attacking US army but had to retreat as more US reinforcements started to arrive.
The Mexican Army retreated as a larger US army poured in Sabine River. The Mexican Army tried to delay the advancing US army to give Mexico a chance to muster a larger army.
The Mexicans fought Taylor’s army again near San Jacinto River. As the Mexicans were gaining the upper hand, U.S. reinforcements poured in. The Mexican army retreated to San Antonio.
In New Mexico, General Kearny moved southwest from Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, in June 30, 1846 with about 2,500 men in his Army of the West. Kearny's orders were to secure New Mexico and Alta California.
He was met by a smaller Mexican army. The Mexicans were aided by native American Indians. The two armies engaged at Apache Canyon to delay until a larger army can muster in Santa Fe.
The Mexican army retreated but not after dealing more casualties to Kearny’s army. The native American Indians continued to harass Kearny’s army after battle.
James Buchanan, president of the United States, set goals for his administration.
Some of the goals of his administration were - acquire some or all of Oregon Country and Acquire California and its harbors from Mexico.
Since the signing of the Anglo-American treaty in 1818, the Oregon County had been under joint occupation by the United States and the British Empire. Previous US Presidents offered to divide region along the 49th parallel which Britain refused.
In Buchanan’s inaugural address, U.S. claims on Oregon was clear and unquestionable. He emphasizes his campaign of Fifty-four Forty or Fight!
Early of 1845, Buchanan sent more troops in Oregon Territory hoping to pressure the British and force a better outcome in their negotiations favoring the United States.
Hawkish members of U.S. Congress were calling for war in December of 1845 anything short of Parallel 54-40 north.
U.S. made offers to Britain that were rejected. Negotiations broke down as each party refuse to reach a compromise.
On July 10, 1846 US Army exchanged fire with British troops. Hostilities escalated quickly as more British and U.S. troops fought one another.
Before news of the initial skirmish reaches Washington, US troops have moved above the 49th parallel chasing retreating British troops. Newspapers in Washington blame the British for starting a war and the British are in full retreat.
The British have already recognized hostilities and are pouring in reinforcements.
The North American War begins.
In Texas, the Mexican army tried to stop General Zachary Taylor’s army at the Battle of Sabine River. The Mexicans dealt more casualties vs the attacking US army but had to retreat as more US reinforcements started to arrive.
The Mexican Army retreated as a larger US army poured in Sabine River. The Mexican Army tried to delay the advancing US army to give Mexico a chance to muster a larger army.
The Mexicans fought Taylor’s army again near San Jacinto River. As the Mexicans were gaining the upper hand, U.S. reinforcements poured in. The Mexican army retreated to San Antonio.
In New Mexico, General Kearny moved southwest from Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, in June 30, 1846 with about 2,500 men in his Army of the West. Kearny's orders were to secure New Mexico and Alta California.
He was met by a smaller Mexican army. The Mexicans were aided by native American Indians. The two armies engaged at Apache Canyon to delay until a larger army can muster in Santa Fe.
The Mexican army retreated but not after dealing more casualties to Kearny’s army. The native American Indians continued to harass Kearny’s army after battle.
James Buchanan, president of the United States, set goals for his administration.
Some of the goals of his administration were - acquire some or all of Oregon Country and Acquire California and its harbors from Mexico.
Since the signing of the Anglo-American treaty in 1818, the Oregon County had been under joint occupation by the United States and the British Empire. Previous US Presidents offered to divide region along the 49th parallel which Britain refused.
In Buchanan’s inaugural address, U.S. claims on Oregon was clear and unquestionable. He emphasizes his campaign of Fifty-four Forty or Fight!
Early of 1845, Buchanan sent more troops in Oregon Territory hoping to pressure the British and force a better outcome in their negotiations favoring the United States.
Hawkish members of U.S. Congress were calling for war in December of 1845 anything short of Parallel 54-40 north.
U.S. made offers to Britain that were rejected. Negotiations broke down as each party refuse to reach a compromise.
On July 10, 1846 US Army exchanged fire with British troops. Hostilities escalated quickly as more British and U.S. troops fought one another.
Before news of the initial skirmish reaches Washington, US troops have moved above the 49th parallel chasing retreating British troops. Newspapers in Washington blame the British for starting a war and the British are in full retreat.
The British have already recognized hostilities and are pouring in reinforcements.
The North American War begins.
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Oh snap, so land hungry Manifest Destiny obssessed US had the guts to go to war with Britain for Oregon? Isn't that a dangerous move for the US, its fighting 2 war fronts at the same time (Britain in the North and Mexico in the South) Trade will suffer for the US (blockade by Brits in the Atlantic and Mex/Phil in the Pacific) It would be better for them if they fight the Mexicans first, take Oregon later after the Mex war.....God help them if Britain and Mexico will help one another.
U.S. avoided in OTL.
TTL, fighting in Oregon took sometime time to reach Washington, D.C. By then, it was fait accompli. Britain already was on a war footing.
Oregon war almost happened in OTL. I little push here and there, a little mistakes here in there. You can get same scenario wherein Britain and Mexico are fighting USA
Philippines isn't at war.
True true, since US is going to fight Mexico, could they approach Phils for a sweeter deal to turn a blind eye on Mex like leaving the San Francisco base alone (Phils is not at war with US at that time and their beef is mostly with Mex) though with all pacific trade going on (the manila-acapulco is one of the most lucrative trade of Phils) and the the base, Phil might be inclined to aid Mex or at least be neutral in the war. (unless US attacks them as well).........Erh, why not, they already attacked BRITAIN.....I then have this funny image of TTL future historians face-palming at the US for going into the war against the three. (phil will only be included if San Francisco is in danger of being taken by US)
Go Mex! Keep them on the East coast and away from San Francisco!
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In OTL, the US Pacific squadron took a few months to get to the pacific side. No Panama canal. Just like the issues in Oregon firefight, it took awhile to get to East coast since this was before railroads and telegraphs from US east coast to west coast.
My initial take upon POD is develop whatever Spain dropped in 1820s. Mexico takes over New Spain and Philippines taking over the Spanish pacific from trade routes, stations, shipbuilding sites.
In OTL, the US Pacific squadron took a few months to get to the pacific side. No Panama canal. Just like the issues in Oregon firefight, it took awhile to get to East coast since this was before railroads and telegraphs from US east coast to west coast.
I have this self rule to set the butterflies slowly. Direct effects on nearest the Philippines or those under or direct path of Philippine influence. Waves after a certain development.
My initial take upon POD is develop whatever Spain dropped in 1820s. Mexico takes over New Spain and Philippines taking over the Spanish pacific from trade routes, stations, shipbuilding sites.
Well, one of the reasons why I like this TL is that though that this is a Philippine wank, it is a more realistic wank due to all imperfect effects of the butterflies (rise of Andrenesians, unequal development of the each island, keeping to Luzon and Visayas (spec. Cebu and Bohol), instead steamrolling all over Mindanao in the 1st years, friarcracy of Borneo etc). Hell, OTL US has their imperfections too, its a wonder how they grew from a fledging republic stuck on on the east coast to become the hyperpower with military bases around world in the present time. Idk about the americans themselves but i think if you tell their present history to the founding fathers, they'll say its a US wank as well.
Just realized Bonin base potential (aside from being a whaling area), if Japan tries anything to Philippines, Philippines has a naval base that's within a stonethrow away from Japan's main coastline. Yikes!
Though I have to ask why Phil has to set up base in Bonin islands (though I know its to secure trade routes) but Spain has been doing fine with the Manila - Acapulco trade without major bases in the Pacific for a century (I understand San Francisco base though, they needed a base near the mexican side of the pacific after a long journey there). Bonin islands is near east side though so there is less likely need for a base there when it is still too early in the trade route.
Methinks that they should only set up base there when the whaling industry becomes really profitable (that it becomes one of their main industries) or they had plans to establish trade with Japan without forcing them open (if they do the Dutch way, they have the reason to set up a base there for the filipino sailors/ships to rest if Japan is still in isolation)
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I was looking at the board on how the expansion would be. Mindanao isn't really a prosperous place to be in those days except Surigao. I also had to account Filipinos doing Filipino mismanagement. Although I wanked the Novales brothers. They cannot be everywhere.
I was also wanted this Philippines not to be the same as OTL. I wanted Tagalog and Cebuano out of the picture and by extension all other Luzon languages and Cebuano-Bisaya languages. That factored in the decision.
Culturally, I had to resolve the issues also by creating the Andresians. Otherwise, Philippines would have the issue of civil wars, revolts and complaints all the time. But I retained some Philippine culture among them like more equal female rights, more hygienic than same time period Europeans.
Bonin Islands passes the pacific trade winds from Philippines to California. It can also be used as a Whaling supply base, Philippine demand for Whales in ATL(illumination and machine lubrication). The British and the Americans were actually there in OTL 1820s/30s. The Americans tried to colonize it in the 1830s. They also used it as Whaling supply base in OTL.
In those days it took months just getting out of Philippines since the common route was Manila going thru Bicol and San Bernardino Straits. It was a slow journey. If they passed thru that route, they can resupply in Bicol then rest and resupply in Bonin.
Eventually, trade routes will be going thru Ilocos once the steam comes along. By that time, Bonin can also be a coaling station.
Ok noted about the Bonin base (Methinks the Bonin base would be a factor in their approach to Japan or Japan's opening up by itself or to other Powers). Either way, Japan is pressured by the presence of a Catholic nation having a resupply base so close to their main coastline, which will only grow in the coming years (one of their reasons for their isolationist policy was to limit spread of Christian religion)
They don't even have a powerful enough navy to deter Phils from building a base there.
Japan won't have an issue during this time period due to their isolation, lack of capability to even know people are in Bonin islands. Bonin despite nearer to Japan is still 800kms away from South East Japan. In OTL Japan only controlled it from 1870s during the Meiji period.
Philippine government is non religious at least the one ruling in Luzon despite being Catholic in name. Andres and the Imperial government is very tolerant of other religions. I believe I had an update on how the government chased down Catholic troublemakers, Catholic Church targeting non Catholics. He is even surrounded day to day by non-Catholics, Gurkha guards, who he encouraged to practice Hinduism/Buddhism to avoid Church influence.
True, you did mention about the Church losing influence in the government affairs.....hence why I said Philippines pushing for trade with Japan without converting the natives to Catholicism is doable with Novales and his policies (they might even bring the church issue at the trade negotiation table with Bakufu leaders to sweeten their deal with Japan to let them trade without force "we are here to trade not to convert" ala Dutch)
Japan is still several updates away. We are still in 1846 as of last update focusing on war between Britain, Mexico and USA.
Philippine concern of orbit is China, Mexico and Britain(including her colonies) due the three biggest trading partners. Japan still not in their targets.
Wait and see. I don't want to spoil the result.
Question about the trade (was rereading on the manilla galleon trade), we know about already that mexico and phil already were connected through it, but lesser known fact is that fact is that Viceroyalty of New Granada has been trying to get on into the action too (they were only prohibited by Mex and Spain). Now that all viceroyalties/countries have declared independence, has Philippines ever tried to reach out to Central Latin America to broaden their trade routes? The Pacific trade winds also passed by this area too and so its doable (pre steamship era). Central America only has to provide ports and bases for Philippines to dock into. They are missing out on Chinese goods there man hahaha
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I haven't put south america on the updates yet.
But silver trade China involved Central and South America. Richest mine in the Americas was Potosi present day Bolivia. This was once part of Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata
and keeps the american influences to a minimum. Philippines will be more the asian brother of latin america instead of the weird long lost cousin in OTL
. I'm a little sad that native languages are dying. Though I am a bit puzzled of how the native language's are dying here ATL, after all in OTL, despite the use of english language in business, education (esp in private schools) and government, native language use in daily life are still strong, especially in the provinces (at least the main 8 languages)
Most the rebellions in OTL were white or mestizo white rebellions in the Philippines from 1823 to the Cavite mutiny in 1872.
Even the 1896 mestizo indio-led rebellion, it did not succeed until the principalia and spanish filipinos joined the fray.
However, the Philippines in this timeline is mostly mixed bag regards to its hispanization. OTL Philippine culture(less hispanized) is still retained in most islands due to corruption (very few spanish native speakers, dont love bullfights). In Borneo it became more closer to medieval Spain, with Inquisition happening there.
OTL Spanish names were forced upon Filipinos in OTL but not TTL.
Chinese migration is greater TTL and multiple cultures are tolerated, intermix, compared to under OTL, Spanish and clerical system is enforced for another 70 years from POD.
Philippine imperial government is anti-clerical.
Buildings are more Portuguese(pombaline) and Chinese than Spanish.
The closest comparison I can make for Hispanics in OTL is the Chilean Army who had a Prussian tradition. In large that Prussian army to Luzon, Bohol and Cebu and you got the Philippine Hispanics.
That is another 80 years of developing local languages. Florante and Laura wasn't written yet in 1823.and keeps the american influences to a minimum. Philippines will be more the asian brother of latin america instead of the weird long lost cousin in OTL
I'm a little sad that native languages are dying. Though I am a bit puzzled of how the native language's are dying here ATL, after all in OTL, despite the use of english language in business, education (esp in private schools) and government, native language use in daily life are still strong, especially in the provinces (at least the main 8 languages)
But not all local languages are dying. Just those in Luzon, Cebu and Bohol.
OTL Mexico had a larger native language speakers during independence. But those local natives speakers declined once public education was offered. So I patterned the dying of languages from OTL Mexico's dying native speakers.